Olympics 2018

[JohnnyBerts]

All these people blaming Bettman. Bettman wants to go to the Olympics - he's said many times how important it is to be on the global stage. The NHL is playing a preseason game in China. Now he obviously can't say that and weaken his bargaining position as he has to represent the owners. Most of us hate Bettman, and while I don't like him, it's hard to to deny that he has done a good job with the game. Two million dollar bodies couldn't come to terms on a payout, that's all that happened and the NHL was forced to say no.

You realize they said no in April when really they have about 90 days to reverse the decision.

 

[patnyrnyg]

All these people blaming Bettman. Bettman wants to go to the Olympics - he's said many times how important it is to be on the global stage. The NHL is playing a preseason game in China. Now he obviously can't say that and weaken his bargaining position as he has to represent the owners. Most of us hate Bettman, and while I don't like him, it's hard to to deny that he has done a good job with the game. Two million dollar bodies couldn't come to terms on a payout, that's all that happened and the NHL was forced to say no.

You realize they said no in April when really they have about 90 days to reverse the decision.

That's the other thing. Until I see the 2017-18 schedule without a break for the Olympics, then I do not think this is a done deal or the "case is closed" at all.

 

[Yakushev72]

Your point was your fantasy that the NHL ever needed the Olympics, which was never true. Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it any more true. We know that the NHL wanted to gain benefit from the Olympics. Need is a different word whose meaning you seem intent on ignoring.



I am very curious to hear about who the NHLers who are going to retire to play in the Olympics are. Ovechkin made a presumably empty threat in that regard, and as far as I know no other players said that. Good for you to see the fantasy scenario you invented come to fruition though, I guess.



The issue with the NHLPA is that they seem to have not done enough. That is drastically different than the NHL, which is the entity that decided not to participate and thus deserves the vast majority of the blame. The IOC deserves blame for many things as well, but the IIHF called the NHL's early bluff (insurance costs) and exposed that the NHL just didn't want to go because... because.



I don't quite understand the post. You are celebrating that the Olympic tournament becomes meaningless, with results indicative of nothing? Or that ignorant fans will live in a fantasy world where fake parity reigns?

You were the one who consistently scoffed at my suggestion that the NHL was abandoning the Olympics. The NHL's comments on Beijing 2022 suggests that they are gone for good.

We could have a years-long philosophical debate about whether wanting to eat is the same thing as needing to eat, but the fact is that the NHL is in a much better position now, thanks to huge TV revenues in the USA in comparison to 1998, to do what other big-boy pro sports corporations do. This was strictly a corporate decision based on corporate cost-benefit ratio analysis. You could see it coming since 2014. In keeping, any NHL international competition will be limited to NHL corporately-planned episodes like the World Cup Summer Beach Invitational Tournament.

Only 3 and 1/2 months until September 2020, when the quirky NHL corporate planning staff will launch a new variation of teenage left-handed lesbians from Europe and North America. I've got my calendar marked!

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

No sugar coating this decision, it's a huge blow to the game. Without NHL stars, it becomes a garbage event! The hockey, that is.
Who is going to represent Canada or the U.S.?? A rag tag band of players from the elite leagues in Europe, the odd NCAA player, Junior players? As a Canadian, I will be embarrassed at what they attempt to slap together, seriously!
No doubt Russia would have an advantage, but I feel bad for those Russian stars who will also not be able to participate, along with the best from the other countries.
I wonder if any of the players will ask their NHL teams to be released for the Olympics? I assume that couldn't happen?

 

[Yakushev72]

No sugar coating this decision, it's a huge blow to the game. Without NHL stars, it becomes a garbage event! The hockey, that is.
Who is going to represent Canada or the U.S.?? A rag tag band of players from the elite leagues in Europe, the odd NCAA player, Junior players? As a Canadian, I will be embarrassed at what they attempt to slap together, seriously!
No doubt Russia would have an advantage, but I feel bad for those Russian stars who will also not be able to participate, along with the best from the other countries.
I wonder if any of the players will ask their NHL teams to be released for the Olympics? I assume that couldn't happen?

The same guys who represented Canada and the USA before 1998. The 1988 hockey competition in Calgary had huge attendance, with the only NHL'ers being Jim Peplinski and Ken Yaremchuk. Look at the jolt USA hockey received from the Lake Placid Games. There is no big bad Soviet team to dominate, so the competition level could be very high. I'll bet that a lot of Canadian hockey fans would consider foregoing a Winnipeg-Arizona matchup to watch a Gold Medal game between Canada and Russia.

 

[Xokkeu]

The same guys who represented Canada and the USA before 1998. The 1988 hockey competition in Calgary had huge attendance, with the only NHL'ers being Jim Peplinski and Ken Yaremchuk. Look at the jolt USA hockey received from the Lake Placid Games. There is no big bad Soviet team to dominate, so the competition level could be very high. I'll bet that a lot of Canadian hockey fans would consider foregoing a Winnipeg-Arizona matchup to watch a Gold Medal game between Canada and Russia.

Canada is really the only place ratings will probably suffer. But I still think you are going to get millions of people watching a Canada gold medal or semifinal game.

Hence why the IOC doesn't really care if the NHL shows up.

 

[Jablkon]

If its just an exception it will be interesting tourney to watch. Funny NHL will allow players to go soon or later just to let 36 years old McDavid play in Olympics so as they did with Gretzky in 98. Somebody had to show how big balls he has and how important his league is on int stage and we all have to eat this ****.

They dont let them go just to show all they can do it....

 

[JackSlater]

This is going to be an interesting few months. I still don't believe a final decision has been made, but will come either at the WHC or at some point during the NHL playoffs. I can see a whole big press conference to kick off the Finals to announce we've reversed our decision and Korea 2018 and China 2022 is a go. If I were the IOC, that's what I'd be telling Bettman, ya, skip Korea, by all means, but don't bother calling me with regards to China either.

Disappointed in how things look at the moment. If it does unfold like that, then the Olympic Hockey tournament will be a nonevent not worth setting your alarm clock for, I'll just skip it just like I did the NHL gimmicky World Cup.

I've seen a few people say that they think that the decision isn't final. I don't agree, but if that is the case then kudos (in a way) to the negotiating tactics of the NHL.

nope. still meaningless. Revive the World Cup, as in a real World Cup without the gimmick teams and you will have the best tournament. That is, of course, if the best players agree to play.

Indeed.

You were the one who consistently scoffed at my suggestion that the NHL was abandoning the Olympics. The NHL's comments on Beijing 2022 suggests that they are gone for good.

I think that you may be confusing me with someone else. I have taken, many times, the NHL's threat quite seriously.

We could have a years-long philosophical debate about whether wanting to eat is the same thing as needing to eat,

We really couldn't, as "want" and "need" are different by definition, leaving us with nothing reasonable to debate.

but the fact is that the NHL is in a much better position now, thanks to huge TV revenues in the USA in comparison to 1998, to do what other big-boy pro sports corporations do. This was strictly a corporate decision based on corporate cost-benefit ratio analysis. You could see it coming since 2014. In keeping, any NHL international competition will be limited to NHL corporately-planned episodes like the World Cup Summer Beach Invitational Tournament.

You are attempting to connect this to the Olympics, as if hockey ratings suddenly increased and remained high after the 1998 Olympics. As far as I know that isn't the case. I could just as easily make the same argument and say that the NHL is more profitable than it was in 1997 or 1999 or 2000 or 2001. You could also make the case that hockey in USA has lost ground relative to other sports, but that is likely a topic for a different thread.

Only 3 and 1/2 months until September 2020, when the quirky NHL corporate planning staff will launch a new variation of teenage left-handed lesbians from Europe and North America. I've got my calendar marked!

Had to laugh here. The NHL has already used Bieber for proportional purposes many times. You may be onto something now.

 

[Xokkeu]

I've seen a few people say that they think that the decision isn't final. I don't agree, but if that is the case then kudos (in a way) to the negotiating tactics of the NHL.

I don't think it's final and I do think it's a negotiating tactic but I also think the league won't change its mind unless someone caves. Just look at how it negotiated with the PA in both lockouts. They know they can wait out the PA. They are willing to cancelled their Olympic participation unless either the IOC or PA cave on something they want. So we have to wonder what the chances are that the IOC lets it's ego go or the PA signs a labor deal extension.

 

[coyotechrisz]

from Complete Hockey News:

Hockey Russia Vice President Roman Rotenberg says that if the NHL doesn't go to the Olympics, then Alex Ovechkin will not be allowed to compete on the team without first retiring from the NHL.
“If you take the same step as Kovalchuk did, and leave the NHL for the KHL, then you can count on participating in Olympics,†Rotenberg said as translated by Igor Kleyner.
“We don’t doubt our guys’ patriotism,†Rotenberg continued. “But the last word belongs to the NHL. There is a legal side of the contract.â€

**** went comical now.

 

[Yakushev72]

They could change their mind, but after making a public announcement that they would not participate, citing all the reasons why, it would blow their integrity to reverse the decision because they got additional financial incentive from the IOC. The IOC already gave in on player insurance and other issues. The primary viewing audience that the NHL draws in is in North America, and the games there will be broadcast at 3 am, when the viewing audience thins out.

 

[Xokkeu]

They could change their mind, but after making a public announcement that they would not participate, citing all the reasons why, it would blow their integrity to reverse the decision because they got additional financial incentive from the IOC. The IOC already gave in on player insurance and other issues. The primary viewing audience that the NHL draws in is in North America, and the games there will be broadcast at 3 am, when the viewing audience thins out.

No the IOC did not give in anything. The iihf did and that was a major sticking point for the NHL

 

[Nino33]

I will also say, outside of this board, I do not know anyone who is all that upset. Every hockey fan I know fits into 1 of 3 categories. 1) Hates the NHL shutdown and wants the NHL to stop doing it, 2) Doesn't like the shutdown, but since they do it, they follow the Olympic tourney with their main hope being nobody on their favorite team gets hurt, 3) Doesn't mind the shutdown and enjoys the tournament, but would not care if the NHL stopped going.

I know that is only anecdotal and a small sample size and I know it is a bigger deal for Europeans. Just saying what I have seen/heard.

Same thing for me; I know of no one who "cares" about the Olympics

 

[Rob]

I will be boycotting the NHL during these two weeks out of principle.

However, I won't be watching Olympic hockey either as it will be pointless.

It will be all university and junior hockey for me.

 

[1Gold Standard]

from Complete Hockey News:



**** went comical now.

I can see Russian NHLers releasing a joint statement. Olympics or we'll retire from the NHL en masse. Whether they go through with it or not is another question...

but if Alex wins a Cup he just may do it anyway. What's left for him to do in the NHL anyway once that goal is accomplished.

This is heading in a direction Bettman and the owners will not like.

 

[admire]

90% of the best players would be in it even if it was just the NHL. However, I would like to see a World Cup put on by the IIHF in conjunction with the NHL. If the KHL doesn't want in, then that is fine. Just understand, if that happens, we may never see a true best on best International Hockey tournament again.

It doesnt matter that its 90%....Its just a fact that you cant field the 8 best nations with only NHL players...and it sure wont be best on best.

So it doesnt matter if a majority play in the NHL, because you cant put on the show without the other leagues.

No...You need to understand that, because it will be the NHLs fault, and nobody elses.

Americans pretend to want best on best, and now you will never get it again.

Congrats.

I will also say, outside of this board, I do not know anyone who is all that upset. Every hockey fan I know fits into 1 of 3 categories. 1) Hates the NHL shutdown and wants the NHL to stop doing it, 2) Doesn't like the shutdown, but since they do it, they follow the Olympic tourney with their main hope being nobody on their favorite team gets hurt, 3) Doesn't mind the shutdown and enjoys the tournament, but would not care if the NHL stopped going.

I know that is only anecdotal and a small sample size and I know it is a bigger deal for Europeans. Just saying what I have seen/heard.

Same thing for me; I know of no one who "cares" about the Olympics

How many people do you know?
It doesnt matter that you and your friends dont care....THere are a lot of people who do.

What is so infuriating with this attitude is the typical american fan perspective....You dont care about the sport, you just want to be entertained on your couch....
Its all me, me, me....Well i dont care....
Not a single thought for the sport itself.-

Well, for the real fans, this is something very different. Its about the arrogance of this decision from the north american point of view.

Asia is a huge expansion market, but lets just ignore that....

I will quote Jonathan Toews....." it just seems unfortunate that when the players voice it's something they think is beneficial not only for them, but for the league and for our game as a whole — it automatically turns into a negotiation," Toews said. "It just seems like it comes down to what can they get out of us when the next CBA negotiation rolls around. It's not about the long-term goals of our game and growing it and the bigger picture.""

Its always about the money...

Oh and btw...Im danish..My team didnt qualify and look how pissed i am about this anyway.

I cant even imagine being Slovenian and having fought tooth and nails to win qualifying and then dont have Kopitar...

 

[patnyrnyg]

I can see Russian NHLers releasing a joint statement. Olympics or we'll retire from the NHL en masse. Whether they go through with it or not is another question...

but if Alex wins a Cup he just may do it anyway. What's left for him to do in the NHL anyway once that goal is accomplished.

This is heading in a direction Bettman and the owners will not like.

The NHL always wants the best players in the league. However, if the Russian feel that strongly that they decide to leave the NHL, the NHL will continue just as it did. The NHL will still be the best league with or without the Russians.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It doesnt matter that its 90%....Its just a fact that you cant field the 8 best nations with only NHL players...and it sure wont be best on best.

So it doesnt matter if a majority play in the NHL, because you cant put on the show without the other leagues.

No...You need to understand that, because it will be the NHLs fault, and nobody elses.

Americans pretend to want best on best, and now you will never get it again.

Congrats.

again, if they all work together. The IIHF, the NHL, the KHL, the SEL, etc, they can have a best-on-best outside of the Olympics. Just like they do in soccer.

How many people do you know?
It doesnt matter that you and your friends dont care....THere are a lot of people who do.

and there are a lot of people who don't. There are a lot of people who care about the world cup of cricket, I don't and don't know anyone who does. Should I really care about that tournament if I don't care about it?

What is so infuriating with this attitude is the typical american fan perspective....You dont care about the sport, you just want to be entertained on your couch....
Its all me, me, me....Well i dont care....
Not a single thought for the sport itself.-

Well, for the real fans, this is something very different. Its about the arrogance of this decision from the north american point of view.

This concept I will never understand. Since the Olympics aren't as big of a deal to most Americans (in your view), it means we don't care about the sport? Yet, we are the ones who are arrogant? Gotchya'. Hint; If Europeans cared a little more, their domestic leagues might make more money and be able to keep their own talent home.

Asia is a huge expansion market, but lets just ignore that....

Asia has been a huge market for 100 years. Was the tourney not on tv in Asia the last 5 times? Do you think it is going to be regular joes in Asia attending these games? Hell no, these tickets will be ridiculously expensive and games will be attended by mostly wealthy people.

I will quote Jonathan Toews....." it just seems unfortunate that when the players voice it's something they think is beneficial not only for them, but for the league and for our game as a whole — it automatically turns into a negotiation," Toews said. "It just seems like it comes down to what can they get out of us when the next CBA negotiation rolls around. It's not about the long-term goals of our game and growing it and the bigger picture.""

Attending the Olympics the last 5 years has not helped grow the NHL.

Its always about the money...

It is a business first and foremost. They are all free to retire from the NHL, get jobs at UPS and train on their own and try to make their country's Olympic team. UPS is known for supporting Olympic Athletes.

Oh and btw...Im danish..My team didnt qualify and look how pissed i am about this anyway.

I cant even imagine being Slovenian and having fought tooth and nails to win qualifying and then dont have Kopitar...

OK, so Slovenia will be missing 1 player, 1 great player, but what did they do last time with him? Now, they actually have a chance to win a few games. Why are you pissed? The tournament will still happen. The IOC's view is they do not need the NHL'ers. If you feel they do, then your anger seems directed at the wrong people.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I will be boycotting the NHL during these two weeks out of principle.

However, I won't be watching Olympic hockey either as it will be pointless.

It will be all university and junior hockey for me.

university and junior hockey is not higher quality than olympics hockey even without nhlers.

 

[penepi]

It is kinda embarassing how people tend to automatically disparage the whole tournament like KHL and EU leagues were some third-class crap. Obviously, the quality will suffer a lot, but it will still be a top-class tournament.

 

[Yakushev72]

The Olympic format is inconsistent with a true best on best championship. Too small a sample size, one-game elimination, and the winners may have been crowned while avoiding matches with 2 or more of the best teams. A best of 7 or 8 doesn't always establish which is the best team, but it does identify who justifiably earned the title of champion.

 

[NyQuil]

It is kinda embarassing how people tend to automatically disparage the whole tournament like KHL and EU leagues were some third-class crap. Obviously, the quality will suffer a lot, but it will still be a top-class tournament.

How can it be a top-class tournament without the world's top-class players?

I mean, it can be entertaining, sure. It won't be top-class though.

 

[Yakushev72]

If they handle it correctly, this could be a real boon to the KHL. North American hockey purists (like fine wine snobs) might opt instead for a mid-season match-up between Winnipeg and Arizona, but the overwhelming majority of worldwide viewers who don't know the distinction will love it. They will focus on the colors worn, and whether the hockey is entertaining. There are a lot of good players around the World who are not in the NHL. The KHL has an opportunity to showcase its talented players and gain a marketing foothold in Europe and Asia.

 

[Jablkon]

If they handle it correctly, this could be a real boon to the KHL. North American hockey purists (like fine wine snobs) might opt instead for a mid-season match-up between Winnipeg and Arizona, but the overwhelming majority of worldwide viewers who don't know the distinction will love it. They will focus on the colors worn, and whether the hockey is entertaining. There are a lot of good players around the World who are not in the NHL. The KHL has an opportunity to showcase its talented players and gain a marketing foothold in Europe and Asia.

I quite looking forward to it but how can you be sure that it wont be just highly motivated Eurohockey tour + Slovakia, Switzerland and Ovechkin?

 

[Jon Riley]

The Olympic format is inconsistent with a true best on best championship. Too small a sample size, one-game elimination, and the winners may have been crowned while avoiding matches with 2 or more of the best teams. A best of 7 or 8 doesn't always establish which is the best team, but it does identify who justifiably earned the title of champion.

Then you do not need a tournament to decide which one is the best team. We already know that. It's Canada.
Luckily the best team does not always win in a single matche, that's what makes the tournament worth watching