Oilers vs Steve Kozari

iCanada

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
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Edmonton
In the game between the Oilers and Flames on January of 2018, the refs called off a couple Oilers goals in reviews, including a goal that would have been the OT winner, and reviewed one more that was ruled a goal in the game. After the Game winner in the shootout, McDavid does the following;



Kozari gave McDavid a 10 minute penalty for abuse of officials at the end of the game.

I've personally felt like we got absolutely jobbed in every game with this guy on the ice. Half the time when I'm irate about a referees work, I look it up and its this guy. So... I was curious and looked it up.

Since then (and forgive me for any inaccuracies here, I'm a touch drunk and the only way to gather this information is to search game by game on NHL.com... EDIT: Per @Del Preston, it appears I was incorrect in a number of these. I'm old and going to bed, so I'll update this tomorrow sometime when I get home from the office.) the Oilers have went done the following in Kozari games:

February 10, 2018
at San Jose (6-4 loss)
PPs 3-1 for SJS.

February 20, 2018
vs Boston (3-2 OT loss)
PPs 3-1 for BOS, PIMS 18 to 4.

October 16, 2018
at Winnipeg (5-4 win)
PPs 4-2 for WPG.

November 01, 2018
vs Chicago (4-0 win)
PPs 4-4.

December 13, 2018
at Winnipeg (5-4 OTloss)
PPs 5-2 for WPG.

December 16th, 2018
at Vancouver (4-2 loss)
PPs 5-1 for VAN.

December 29th, 2018
vs San Jose (7-4 loss)
PPs 3-1 for SJS.

February 27, 2019
at Toronto (6-2 loss)
PPs 5-2 for TOR.

March 17, 2019
at Las Vegas (6-3 loss)
PPs 4-1 for VGK.

March 19, 2019
at St. Louis (7-2 loss)
PPs 6-1 for STL, including 5 on 3 & additional 5 minute major PP. PIMs 38 to 7.

March 26, 2019
vs Los Angeles (8-4 win)
PPs 4-1 for LAK.

October 08, 2019
at NY Islanders (5-2 win)
PPs 5-2 for EDM.

November 12, 2019
at San Jose (6-3 win)
PPs 4-2 for SJS.

Wednesday, November 27th, 2019
at Colorado (4-1 loss)
Penalties 5-1 for COL, including 5 on 3 & 5 minute penalty. PIMs 29 to 8.

Thus we've went 5-7-2 in games with Kozari as the referee (I'll count it as 6-8 for simplicity); in this timeframe since the original game, we're 64-62-14 (I'll count it as 71-69 for simplicity). This means in non-Kozari game's we're 65-61, or win games at a rate of 51.6%. Games with Kozari, we've won only 42.9%.

In these Kozari games, the Oilers have been granted 21 powerplay opportunities, but have been put on the penalty kill 56 times. Per NHL.com, the Oilers in this time have had (and this statline surprised me, tbh) 369 PPs and 333 PKs. If my count is correct, that means in non-Kozari games we've gotten 348 PPs and 277 PKs. So we're getting 55.7% of the PPs in most games, yet with Kozari we are getting only 27.3% of PPs? Seems to be an incredible disparity here.

Now, I don't know the disparity or standard deviation is exactly in wins in a particular 14 out of 140 game sample size, or what the typical standard deviation is in PPs for / against in any particular game sample size. I'm also not sure if I'm smart enough to find out, especially this many brewskies in.... But perhaps the above's negative deviation from our typical averages is not whole-y unlikely to the point of showing a clear bias. But... It sure as shit looks like a clear bias, to my drunk ass.

:huh::thumbd:

source.gif
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,860
Since we're in an age of "good ol' boys" hockey traditions being challenged hard these days maybe it is time the whole "ref who has it in for a team because they chirped him once 2 years ago" thing needs to be examined too.

The NBA has working hard to get over the stigma of biased reffing the last few years, wonder if this is ever going rear its head in the NHL.
 

Tobias Kahun

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
42,299
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The most hilarious Kozari game there is a game the Oilers beat the Kings 8-4, yet still somehow the Kings still had a 4-1 PP advantage, lol.
#GameManagement.

The most shocking thing about Kozari is he some how qualified to officiate a stanley cup finals before.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,860
I watch NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and when I can NCAA basketball ... the NHL is by far the worst reffed pro sport.

By far.

NBA had some shady shit in the past but they've clamped down on crap refs and refs know now that they'll get found out if they try to be too biased.

NBA reviews reffing from every game, NHL has no balls to do that because they're not going to like what they see and they know it.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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I watch NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and when I can NCAA basketball ... the NHL is by far the worst reffed pro sport.

By far.

NBA had some shady **** in the past but they've clamped down on crap refs and refs know now that they'll get found out if they try to be too biased.

NBA reviews reffing from every game, NHL has no balls to do that because they're not going to like what they see and they know it.
This is the biggest thing that helped the NBA refs clean up their act.

I think the NHL wants to create a false parity on the skill gap of players by letting no names just commit penalties all game without calling it, because they don't want teams to be shorthanded all game.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
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It might require some work but can someone dig up the PPs for/against in the previous 11 or 12 games with Kozari reffing the Oilers prior to the McDavid disallowed goal/shootout wing game?

If there's a large disparity I'd love to hear the pundits explain that away.

That whole "ref who has it in for team Y/Z/X because of something that happened in a past game" crap maybe was easier to get away with in the past, but today with the internet being what it is, your ass can get busted on that, like the NBA got itself into some hot water.
 

Del Preston

Registered User
Mar 8, 2013
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Some of these aren't correct.

February 10, 2018
at San Jose (6-4 loss)
PPs 3-1 for SJS.
PPs were 3-1 Edmonton

October 16, 2018
at Winnipeg (5-4 win)
PPs 4-2 for WPG.
PPs were 3-2 Winnipeg

November 01, 2018
vs Chicago (4-0 win)
PPs 4-4.
PPs were 4-3 Edmonton

December 13, 2018
at Winnipeg (5-4 OTloss)
PPs 5-2 for WPG.
PPs were 3-2 Winnipeg

December 29th, 2018
vs San Jose (7-4 loss)
PPs 3-1 for SJS.
He didn't ref this game.

February 27, 2019
at Toronto (6-2 loss)
PPs 5-2 for TOR.
He didn't ref this game.

March 17, 2019
at Las Vegas (6-3 loss)
PPs 4-1 for VGK.
PPs were 3-1 Vegas and he didn't ref this game.

November 12, 2019
at San Jose (6-3 win)
PPs 4-2 for SJS.
The Oilers lost, PPs were 3-2 San Jose, and he didn't ref this game.
 

iCanada

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
18,942
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Edmonton
When everything is illegal, and nothing is called, you are giving clowns like Kozari with personal grudges the ability to bias games. It means you can point at any call, and justify it as against the rules absolutely, or any non-call and justify it as a non-call because it goes uncalled five times a game. You've basically given your Referee complete and utter power with no realistic oversight.

Idk, I can handle a ref making mistakes in one game, good teams can battle through that. But when you have 10% of your games being played with a clown official who is giving you 1.5 PPs/GP instead of 2.8 PPs/GP, and penalizing you 4 times/GP instead of 2.3 times/GP... its an utter joke. Thats a total disparity of 4 penalties a game. Given that there has been 17628 PPs in the NHL in this time, and there have been 3509 PPG's scored, you can say extrapolate so that 19.9% of PPs are goals.

Kozari is essentially jobbing us 0.797 goals every game of ours he refs.
 

iCanada

Registered User
Feb 6, 2010
18,942
18,363
Edmonton
Some of these aren't correct.


PPs were 3-1 Edmonton


PPs were 3-2 Winnipeg


PPs were 4-3 Edmonton


PPs were 3-2 Winnipeg


He didn't ref this game.


He didn't ref this game.


PPs were 3-1 Vegas and he didn't ref this game.


The Oilers lost this game, the PPs were 3-2 San Jose, and he wasn't reffing.

Ah, thanks for the correction, I appreciate it. I'll update this tomorrow at some point. I was sure I would make some errors, but that's more than I expected. A touch embarrassing. :oops::help:

It might require some work but can someone dig up the PPs for/against in the previous 11 or 12 games with Kozari reffing the Oilers prior to the McDavid disallowed goal/shootout wing game?

If there's a large disparity I'd love to hear the pundits explain that away.

That whole "ref who has it in for team Y/Z/X because of something that happened in a past game" crap maybe was easier to get away with in the past, but today with the internet being what it is, your ass can get busted on that, like the NBA got itself into some hot water.

If I'm still outraged tomorrow, and I find some free time, I may take a look at this. Its interesting for sure.
 

ZenOil

Fast Twitch Hitch
Sep 23, 2010
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Nice work. He's probably another narcissist who thinks he's bigger then the game. It's not good to get on a narcs bad side. Maybe McDavid should send him some flowers and a mirror.
 

Del Preston

Registered User
Mar 8, 2013
63,171
78,954
Ah, thanks for the correction, I appreciate it. I'll update this tomorrow at some point. I was sure I would make some errors, but that's more than I expected. A touch embarrassing. :oops::help:



If I'm still outraged tomorrow, and I find some free time, I may take a look at this. Its interesting for sure.
The real numbers don't flatter him either. The Oilers are 4-5-1 when he officiates. PPs are 35-21 for the opponents, and five times the Oilers have had just one power play opportunity.

He's a shit ref.

February 10, 2018
6-4 loss @ San Jose
PPs 3-1 EDM

February 20, 2018
3-2 loss vs Boston
PPs 3-1 BOS

October 16, 2018
5-4 OT win @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

November 1, 2018
4-0 win vs Chicago
PPs 4-3 EDM

December 13, 2018
5-4 OT loss @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

December 16, 2018
4-2 loss @ Vancouver
PPs 5-1 VAN

March 19, 2019
7-2 loss @ St. Louis
PPs 6-1 STL

March 26, 2019
8-4 win vs Los Angeles
PPs 4-1 LAK

October 8, 2019
5-2 win @ NY Islanders
PPs 5-2 EDM

November 27, 2019
4-1 loss @ Colorado
PPs 5-1 COL
 
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Ctrain2k

Registered User
Dec 3, 2016
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Went through all the games back to 2015-16 for some pre "incident" comparison here's what I found.

NSH at EDM 4-0 loss December 14 2017

NSH 2/3 pp 4 pn 8 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 4 pn 8 pim


DAL vs EDM 6-3 loss November 18 2017

DAL 1/6 pp 9 pn 32 pim

EDM 1/3 pp 12 pn 38 pim


LA at EDM 2-1 win March 28 2017

LA 0/1 pp 4 pn 11 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 2 pn 7 pim


COL vs EDM 7-4 win March 23 2017

COL 0/3 pp 2 pn 4 pim

EDM 0/2 pp 3 pn 4 pim


NYR vs EDM 5-3 loss November 3 2016

NYR 0/3 pp 3 pn 8 pim

EDM 1/4 pp 3 pn 6 pim


ARI at EDM 4-0 loss March 12 2016

ARI 1/2 pp 8 pn 24 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 8 pn 32 pim


WPG at EDM 3-1 win December 21 2015

WPG 0/5 pp 4 pn 8 pim

EDM 0/2 pp 7 pn 14 pim


NJD at EDM 5-1 win November 20 2015

NJD 1/4 6 pn 12 pim

EDM 1/6 4 pn 8 pim


So in conclusion assuming my math is correct the oilers have 43 penalties and 117 pim called against them compared to their oppenents 40 and 107 pim, they also have a record of 4-4-0 in 8 games so these numbers seem very even. Going through every box score over the last 4 1/2 years it's weird that he officiates very little oilers games in comparison to a lot of other referees.

Apparently he's also the ref that called a 5 the minute major on Cody Eakin that stole San Jose the series against Vegas

and missed this slew foot in game 5 of the cups finals directly leading to the game winning goal (this actually could've robbed the Bruins of a cup)
 

nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,391
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HF boards
Went through all the games back to 2015-16 for some pre "incident" comparison here's what I found.

NSH at EDM 4-0 loss December 14 2017

NSH 2/3 pp 4 pn 8 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 4 pn 8 pim


DAL vs EDM 6-3 loss November 18 2017

DAL 1/6 pp 9 pn 32 pim

EDM 1/3 pp 12 pn 38 pim


LA at EDM 2-1 win March 28 2017

LA 0/1 pp 4 pn 11 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 2 pn 7 pim


COL vs EDM 7-4 win March 23 2017

COL 0/3 pp 2 pn 4 pim

EDM 0/2 pp 3 pn 4 pim


NYR vs EDM 5-3 loss November 3 2016

NYR 0/3 pp 3 pn 8 pim

EDM 1/4 pp 3 pn 6 pim


ARI at EDM 4-0 loss March 12 2016

ARI 1/2 pp 8 pn 24 pim

EDM 0/3 pp 8 pn 32 pim


WPG at EDM 3-1 win December 21 2015

WPG 0/5 pp 4 pn 8 pim

EDM 0/2 pp 7 pn 14 pim


NJD at EDM 5-1 win November 20 2015

NJD 1/4 6 pn 12 pim

EDM 1/6 4 pn 8 pim


So in conclusion assuming my math is correct the oilers have 43 penalties and 117 pim called against them compared to their oppenents 40 and 107 pim, they also have a record of 4-4-0 in 8 games so these numbers seem very even. Going through every box score over the last 4 1/2 years it's weird that he officiates very little oilers games in comparison to a lot of other referees.

Apparently he's also the ref that called a 5 the minute major on Cody Eakin that stole San Jose the series against Vegas

and missed this slew foot in game 5 of the cups finals directly leading to the game winning goal (this actually could've robbed the Bruins of a cup)


after making the two worst calls/non calls in the playoffs that we have seen in years you have to wonder how he still has a job?
 

Ctrain2k

Registered User
Dec 3, 2016
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after making the two worst calls/non calls in the playoffs that we have seen in years you have to wonder how he still has a job?

I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a ref fired, closest thing I can think of is a tenured professor. It seems like once you’re in you’re in no matter how much stupid s*** you do.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,635
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Edmonton
The real numbers don't flatter him either. The Oilers are 4-5-1 when he officiates. PPs are 35-21 for the opponents, and five times the Oilers have had just one power play opportunity.

He's a **** ref.

February 10, 2018
6-4 loss @ San Jose
PPs 3-1 EDM

February 20, 2018
3-2 loss vs Boston
PPs 3-1 BOS

October 16, 2018
5-4 OT win @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

November 1, 2018
4-0 win vs Chicago
PPs 4-3 EDM

December 13, 2018
5-4 OT loss @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

December 16, 2018
4-2 loss @ Vancouver
PPs 5-1 VAN

March 19, 2019
7-2 loss @ St. Louis
PPs 6-1 STL

March 26, 2019
8-4 win vs Los Angeles
PPs 4-1 LAK

October 8, 2019
5-2 win @ NY Islanders
PPs 5-2 EDM

November 27, 2019
4-1 loss @ Colorado
PPs 5-1 COL
Really what you’d need to do is a deep dive into which ref is actually calling the penalties in each game since there is two of them.

I’m not sold there is enough in these numbers to suggest there is a true bias. There’s is no rule that penalties need to be even in a game and the oilers have been a bad team the majority of the time of these games. So having a losing record isn’t really that much of a surprise is it?
 

BlackDogg

perpetuum defectum
Oct 3, 2015
41,062
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If the games aren't "audited" for consistency, then it is just too easy for certain officials to take their biases out on teams. Every team should have X number of games, even if its only 2 a year that they can request an audit on. And hopefully the league is legit enough that it doesn't cover up for the mistakes.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
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I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a ref fired, closest thing I can think of is a tenured professor. It seems like once you’re in you’re in no matter how much stupid s*** you do.

Yes, and I don't understand why. Every fan of every team dreads seeing that their game will be reffed by Steve Kozari, Chris Lee, or Marc Joanette. Yet these guys have all been around for 10 to 15 years, it's ridiculous.
 

Ritchie Valens

Registered User
Sep 24, 2007
28,547
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The real numbers don't flatter him either. The Oilers are 4-5-1 when he officiates. PPs are 35-21 for the opponents, and five times the Oilers have had just one power play opportunity.

He's a **** ref.

February 10, 2018
6-4 loss @ San Jose
PPs 3-1 EDM

February 20, 2018
3-2 loss vs Boston
PPs 3-1 BOS

October 16, 2018
5-4 OT win @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

November 1, 2018
4-0 win vs Chicago
PPs 4-3 EDM

December 13, 2018
5-4 OT loss @ Winnipeg
PPs 3-2 WPG

December 16, 2018
4-2 loss @ Vancouver
PPs 5-1 VAN

March 19, 2019
7-2 loss @ St. Louis
PPs 6-1 STL

March 26, 2019
8-4 win vs Los Angeles
PPs 4-1 LAK

October 8, 2019
5-2 win @ NY Islanders
PPs 5-2 EDM

November 27, 2019
4-1 loss @ Colorado
PPs 5-1 COL

Another smoking gun would be during those Oilers powerplays, how many times was a penalty called against the Oilers to negate the powerplay. To my knowledge, one second of powerplay time is still counted as a powerplay.

I'm off today but do have some shit to do so if I get time later, I'll try to answer my own question.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
15,540
11,836
Montreal
I'd also like to know the context on some of the PP's.
I recall being gifted a bunch of garbage PPs towards the end of the game after the game was out of reach.


And I remember several 5 on 3's which resulted in goals against.

That 5 on 3 last night was a total joke.


The only issue with calling it out, is we get that situation when we called out Mick Magoo.
 
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AUAIOMRN

Registered User
Aug 22, 2005
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I realize it can be fun/cathartic to get mad over something like this, but certain Oiler fans are the only ones who think this was some kind of epic screw job. Consider that maybe it wasn't.
 

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