OHL Expansion

[DubCee21]

IDK the viability or interest but there are 2 NY and 1 PA based NAHL teams that would make sense as far as location is concerned. Rochester, and Elmira in NY and Johnstown in PA which is about 3 hours south of Erie. I have no idea about their arena conditions or size. I did visit the Johnstown arena many years ago when it housed an ECHL team and it would be big enough.

 

[OMG67]

IDK the viability or interest but there are 2 NY and 1 PA based NAHL teams that would make sense as far as location is concerned. Rochester, and Elmira in NY and Johnstown in PA which is about 3 hours south of Erie. I have no idea about their arena conditions or size. I did visit the Johnstown arena many years ago when it housed an ECHL team and it would be big enough.

That’s sort of what I was thinking. The NAHL team would probably need to be an expansion style team though.

 

[ZinErie]

Steve Manson ?

I believe it was Steve Manson. For the other responders, Mark Jennerette was the play by play guy and Victor Fernandez covered the Otters for the Erie paper.

 

[Petes1987]

There’s really only 3 arenas in the league that are outdated Ptbo Owen sound and Sudbury but that’ll be 2 soon once Sudbury’s new arena is built. 4 if you include North bay but they renovated at least fairly recently

The Peterborough Memorial Centre was renovated in 2003. It was modeled after the Barrie Molson Centre. It is a bit outdated but still useable.

 

[User13452]

The Peterborough Memorial Centre was renovated in 2003. It was modeled after the Barrie Molson Centre. It is a bit outdated but still useable.

I mean it’s definitely useable but it’s not really up to the standards of basically every other arena in the ohl. I’d have to look at all across the chl but it’s probably bottom 10 if I had to guess. How many arenas in the chl have the benches on opposite sides of the rink that just tells you how outdated it is

 

[Petes1987]

I mean it’s definitely useable but it’s not really up to the standards of basically every other arena in the ohl. I’d have to look at all across the chl but it’s probably bottom 10 if I had to guess. How many arenas in the chl have the benches on opposite sides of the rink that just tells you how outdated it is

The Ottawa 67s rink may have benches on the opposite sides. In Peterborough the city was going to put the benches side by side during the renovations in 2003 and they cannot do it because of the structure of the electrical system.

 

[OMG67]

The Ottawa 67s rink may have benches on the opposite sides. In Peterborough the city was going to put the benches side by side during the renovations in 2003 and they cannot do it because of the structure of the electrical system.

67’s used to have them on opposite sides so the 67s had the advantage of short change every period but that changed around 2010. I think they may have been forced to do so.

 

[User13452]

The Ottawa 67s rink may have benches on the opposite sides. In Peterborough the city was going to put the benches side by side during the renovations in 2003 and they cannot do it because of the structure of the electrical system.

Ottawa doesn’t the only other arena in the league that does is Sudbury

 

[Section7fan]

I don't think OHL is as picky as people make it out to be for arena's anyway.
Go take a look at Peterborough it doesn't get much worse then the PMC.

I’m guessing that you’ve never been to North Bay or Sudbury?

 

[Section7fan]

There’s really only 3 arenas in the league that are outdated Ptbo Owen sound and Sudbury but that’ll be 2 soon once Sudbury’s new arena is built. 4 if you include North bay but they renovated at least fairly recently

Memorial Centre is much nicer than the arena in North Bay imo.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I’m guessing that you’ve never been to North Bay or Sudbury?

I haven’t been that far north in quite a while but know they are old arenas yea

 

[frontsfan67]

I’m guessing that you’ve never been to North Bay or Sudbury?

I’ve been to north bay twice and their arena is way better than the PMC.

The PMC smells like a cheap apartment and is crazy outdated- even has box tvs in the concourse. Seats are real small too not a lot of leg room, benches on opposite sides, square corners, old bathrooms etc. HOWEVER there is automatic soap dispensers in the bathrooms.

If they aren’t going to build a new arena at some point they’re definitely due for a big renovation.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I’ve been to north bay twice and their arena is way better than the PMC.

The PMC smells like a cheap apartment and is crazy outdated- even has box tvs in the concourse. Seats are real small too not a lot of leg room, benches on opposite sides, square corners, old bathrooms etc. HOWEVER there is automatic soap dispensers in the bathrooms.

If they aren’t going to build a new arena at some point they’re definitely due for a big renovation.

There has been rumblings about the City of Peterborough wanting to get out of owning a hockey team and find a private owner.
With that said it was mentioned they have a long list of conditions like building a new arena and keeping the team safe from relocation.
I doubt any owner is going to agree to fund a new arena at a couple hundred million + price tag and spend 15M on a hockey team though.

 

[JMCx4]

I am not sure that they would split the Iowa teams up. There are 5 USHL teams in Iowa. Assuming they keep them together, a more likely split might be Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois go east (6 teams), while Iowa, Nebraska, and both Dakotas go west (10 teams). As an aside - how are there no teams in Minnesota??? ...

The Rink Live's Jordan McAlpine pondered that topic in this article.

 

[frontsfan67]

There has been rumblings about the City of Peterborough wanting to get out of owning a hockey team and find a private owner.
With that said it was mentioned they have a long list of conditions like building a new arena and keeping the team safe from relocation.
I doubt any owner is going to agree to fund a new arena at a couple hundred million + price tag and spend 15M on a hockey team though.

Makes sense because that place is an ancient relic. Great atmosphere though and I wish we had their parking lot.

 

[OMG67]

There has been rumblings about the City of Peterborough wanting to get out of owning a hockey team and find a private owner.
With that said it was mentioned they have a long list of conditions like building a new arena and keeping the team safe from relocation.
I doubt any owner is going to agree to fund a new arena at a couple hundred million + price tag and spend 15M on a hockey team though.

Again, it all comes down to arenas. Any arena needs to be a part of a bigger development. Ottawa will get one as part of the Lansdowne redevelopment.

If a new arena goes in Peterborough, it will need some sort of development project where the arena is a small component of a bigger project. It likely will need city funding as well as Provincial funding to a degree.

I’m not sure the town of Peterborough has the draw for an event centre or any sort of facility like that. It will be very difficult for them to get anything done there.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Again, it all comes down to arenas. Any arena needs to be a part of a bigger development. Ottawa will get one as part of the Lansdowne redevelopment.

If a new arena goes in Peterborough, it will need some sort of development project where the arena is a small component of a bigger project. It likely will need city funding as well as Provincial funding to a degree.

I’m not sure the town of Peterborough has the draw for an event centre or any sort of facility like that. It will be very difficult for them to get anything done there.

Tell that to Brantford who draws less then Peterborough.
Anything is possible with the right Mayor and Council at the table and that project in Brantford just proves it,

 

[OMG67]

Tell that to Brantford who draws less then Peterborough.
Anything is possible with the right Mayor and Council at the table and that project in Brantford just proves it,

Brantford doesn’t have a new rink.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Brantford doesn’t have a new rink.

They approved it a month ago.
Just saying you're theory on Peterborough not being able to draw enough for it is flawed when they already draw more then Brantford who got approval to spend city money.

https://www.chch.com/chch-news/brantford-bulldogs-look-to-long-term-as-city-approves-140m-arena/

 

[OMG67]

They approved it a month ago.
Just saying you're theory on Peterborough not being able to draw enough for it is flawed when they already draw more then Brantford who got approval to spend city money.

https://www.chch.com/chch-news/brantford-bulldogs-look-to-long-term-as-city-approves-140m-arena/

What I meant for “DRAW” was for the Event Centre, not the hockey games. If the arena is part of a larger event centre, they need the population and business draw to make the “Event Centre” the main component. I used Ottawa as the example. The City of Ottawa would never have approved a new OHL type rink as a stand alone development. However, as part of the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park and the management of a 3rd party Development/Management company (OSEG), they will completely erect a new Football Stadium (in two phases) as well as build a new rink. But, it is a commercial and residential development that supports the business plan. Peterborough isn’t big enough, nor is it a commercial hub.

 

[ScoutLife4]

What I meant for “DRAW” was for the Event Centre, not the hockey games. If the arena is part of a larger event centre, they need the population and business draw to make the “Event Centre” the main component. I used Ottawa as the example. The City of Ottawa would never have approved a new OHL type rink as a stand alone development. However, as part of the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park and the management of a 3rd party Development/Management company (OSEG), they will completely erect a new Football Stadium (in two phases) as well as build a new rink. But, it is a commercial and residential development that supports the business plan. Peterborough isn’t big enough, nor is it a commercial hub.

What's the population difference between Brantford and Peterborough?
10K or so?
Peterborough would draw from all the small towns in the surrounding area where as Brantford has Hamilton next door to compete with for events.
I don't think it would be that much of an issue if Brantford can do it.

 

[User13452]

I’ve been to north bay twice and their arena is way better than the PMC.

The PMC smells like a cheap apartment and is crazy outdated- even has box tvs in the concourse. Seats are real small too not a lot of leg room, benches on opposite sides, square corners, old bathrooms etc. HOWEVER there is automatic soap dispensers in the bathrooms.

If they aren’t going to build a new arena at some point they’re definitely due for a big renovation.

I agree north bay’s is better. The one thing I can’t stand about ptbo’s arena is the ice surface i hate watching hockey on a surface that isn’t the same size as the other arenas

 

[Otto]

They approved it a month ago.
Just saying you're theory on Peterborough not being able to draw enough for it is flawed when they already draw more then Brantford who got approval to spend city money.

https://www.chch.com/chch-news/brantford-bulldogs-look-to-long-term-as-city-approves-140m-arena/

The only reason Peterborough draws more than Brantford is because Brantford's arena is smaller. Last season Brantford was at 104.3% capacity, Peterborough 86.6% . This season Brantford is 103.5% capacity, Peterborough 81%. There's a need for a new arena in Brantford because they are bursting at the seams.

 

[OMG67]

What's the population difference between Brantford and Peterborough?
10K or so?
Peterborough would draw from all the small towns in the surrounding area where as Brantford has Hamilton next door to compete with for events.
I don't think it would be that much of an issue if Brantford can do it.

There is no business around Peterborough. None. It ends at Oshawa. No one is going to Peterborough. So, unless Peterborough is making a push to build infrastructure to support growth, there is no reason for Peterborough to throw money into an OHL rink.

The Brantford rink is part of a $1.5Bil Redevelopment project with 2600 residential units. The City will collect $9mil annually from property taxes which will be allocated to the debt servicing on the $140mil arena.

This is what I am talking about. It “usually” needs to be a part of a redevelopment or new development plan where the arena is a small component.

Where does this come into effect for PEterborough? Clearly the City cannot support building a rink independently. They need a new owner that would propose to build a new development (likely commercial and residential mix) where the City can allocate funding that can be recouped in some manner though increased business activity. For pro sports, a lot of the justification has to do with economic growth attached to having a pro tema in the city. But, for junior hockey, mostly it has to do with development and increased tax collection.

This is why you will see Townships try to renovate existing buildings with public and private funds. It is doable. In some cases, they can even have a ticket surcharge collected on the sale of every ticket that goes directly to the township to pay down the debt when there is no added economic benefit. Effectively, everyone pays an extra $1.50 for tickets for 20 years.

The PMC is a city owned property so they do need to perform schedule renovations etc. Hopefully they will get to the point where the added cost of a full Reno makes sense leveraged against the cost of maintaining the same unit.

 

[ScoutLife4]

There is no business around Peterborough. None. It ends at Oshawa. No one is going to Peterborough. So, unless Peterborough is making a push to build infrastructure to support growth, there is no reason for Peterborough to throw money into an OHL rink.

The Brantford rink is part of a $1.5Bil Redevelopment project with 2600 residential units. The City will collect $9mil annually from property taxes which will be allocated to the debt servicing on the $140mil arena.

This is what I am talking about. It “usually” needs to be a part of a redevelopment or new development plan where the arena is a small component.

Where does this come into effect for PEterborough? Clearly the City cannot support building a rink independently. They need a new owner that would propose to build a new development (likely commercial and residential mix) where the City can allocate funding that can be recouped in some manner though increased business activity. For pro sports, a lot of the justification has to do with economic growth attached to having a pro tema in the city. But, for junior hockey, mostly it has to do with development and increased tax collection.

This is why you will see Townships try to renovate existing buildings with public and private funds. It is doable. In some cases, they can even have a ticket surcharge collected on the sale of every ticket that goes directly to the township to pay down the debt when there is no added economic benefit. Effectively, everyone pays an extra $1.50 for tickets for 20 years.

The PMC is a city owned property so they do need to perform schedule renovations etc. Hopefully they will get to the point where the added cost of a full Reno makes sense leveraged against the cost of maintaining the same unit.

So you knew about the new arena in Branford that’s coming all along?
Peterborough seems to have concerts and shows at that arena every week from what I see and have no issue drawing already.
It will get to the point (probably has already) where the Maintenance cost of operating that building costs more then it’s worth keeping it operational if they do not replace it.
That building is literally falling apart in places right now.
Maybe Peterborough decides next year to build an entertainment district for all we know.
That arena is pasts its life.
They cants really renovate that building there is no real estate to do it where it sits unless they removed all parking.
No one thought Brantford would have a new arena either though I get it.
For having no business in Peterborough awfully strange how the boards and walls are plastered so try sponsorship from local businesses.