Offense or Defense? What is Easier to Teach?

[Samsquanch]

Hypothetical situation folks. You have a choice of selecting two players. One is blessed offensively with holes in their defensive game, and the other blessed with size and defensive awareness but hasent shown any offensive flair at this point in their career.

Which player do you chose on the assumption that their shortcomings can be taught with age and experience?

This is not a question that can be answered by "draft what your team needs", I just want to know what is a more likely scenario. Offense being taught, or defense.

 

[Mach 9*]

Defense can be taught easier, because it has to do with hockey awareness

 

[Bjorn Le]

Defense easily.

 

[Lehner]

Defense is much easier to teach imo,

You cant teach players how to shoot harder/more accurate, deke, passing through a maze of players...this all takes a lot of practice and time.

You can teach a player how to be positionally sound, how to hit to a degree, how to lift sticks/poke check...

Both take practice and time but some offense that is done cant be taught by a coach imo. You either have it or you dont.

 

[Samsquanch]

I know the answer is defense myself, I just want some opinions that arent from the leaf fans from over in the Karlsson vs Shenn thread.

 

[sg58]

Well, how often do you see a guy become a better defensive player on the fall of his career vs. a stone-handed guy becoming a great playmaker on a latter stage?

 

[Leafidelity]

It depends on the position. If you want the best possible players on a team, you want your forwards scoring and your defensemen preventing offense. It's alot more rewarding) to teach a forward defensive systems if they have the touch for goals. I'd like my defensemen to excel in their position (defense) and learn offense (a point shot) later.

 

[Sega Dreamcast]

There is a large amount of difficulty in getting defensive pressure and gap control right. I would say that offense is more skill based, while defense is more strategy based, which is why big brutes like Hal Gill and Chris Pronger be very effective defensemen, while there are a lot of forwards who lack certain skills to be very effective.

The ways to teach them are completely different, which means there will naturally be one that is harder and one that is easier.

 

[wahoyaho]

Defense

 

[Lehner]

It depends on the position. If you want the best possible players on a team, you want your forwards scoring and your defensemen preventing offense. It's alot more rewarding) to teach a forward defensive systems if they have the touch for goals. I'd like my defensemen to excel in their position (defense) and learn offense (a point shot) later.

a point shot isnt just offense, and come on dude...there is no way in hell offence is easier to teach...even if your a defense-man.

 

[NewFang]

Are you talking about defenceman or forwards? Makes a huge difference IMO. For forwards, I think defence is easier to teach since it's more about positioning, not really as much about awareness, gap control, etc.

For defenceman, I think both are equally hard to teach.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Not close, I want to teach defense. You rarely see players in lower leagues being coveted into offensive players in the NHL, while it is the complete opposite with offense into defense.

If you are specifically referring to Karlsson vs. Schenn, Karlsson will learn to play defense much easier (and more effectively) then Schenn will learn offense. Karlsson has the foot speed and hockey sense to be good defensively, while Schenn doesn't have the skating or vision to ever put up impressive numbers. Schenn will always be the better defensive player, although the gap will get closer, while Karlsson will always be much better offensively.

 

[Toydarian]

I know the answer is defense myself, I just want some opinions that arent from the leaf fans from over in the Karlsson vs Shenn thread.

Oooohhhh...so here is the ulterior motive. In response to the question offence or defence, it is definitely easier to teach a forward how to become a defensively responsible grinder as opposed to a 30+ goal scorer or point per game. Now in reference to defenseman I think it is a very different situation, while offense from the backend is very important, you can’t look past a defenseman’s primary role of stopping the other team from scoring. A great example would be M.A Bergeron versus Matt Greene, Bergeron can put up points and score goals but can’t defend to save his life (job) where as Matt Greene is offensively illiterate but is a valuable defenseman. Between the two who would you rather have?

p.s. I'm not a Leafs fan

 

[Samsquanch]

Doesnt matter if its a forward or D.

Skill and talent cant be taught. This is the whole point of the thread, hopefully some people see it my way.

 

[Lehner]

Are you talking about defenceman or forwards? Makes a huge difference IMO. For forwards, I think defence is easier to teach since it's more about positioning, not really as much about awareness, gap control, etc.

For defenceman, I think both are equally hard to teach.

Not at all

Defensive

Positioning - Can be taught
Foot Speed - You have it or you dont, can practice it i guess
Poke Checking/Stick lift - taught
Block shots - I guess thats a skill..but can be taught to a degree
Hitting - can be taught

Offensive

Positioning - Can be taught
Foot Speed - You have it or you dont, can practice it i guess
Dekeing - Taught to a degree, but again you either have it or not.
Passing - Taught to a degree, but u cant teach a player how to do a cross ice pass through traffic.
Shot - Can teach the basics, but power and accuracy no..

 

[Devils Mike*]

Defense is more about how hard you try and how smart you are.

Offense is more about skill and being taught the right things.

 

[bobermay]

Doesnt matter if its a forward or D.

Skill and talent cant be taught. This is the whole point of the thread, hopefully some people see it my way.

And being a defensive stud doesn't take skill? Thats funny, that should mean that everyone in the league is extraordinary defensively.


I think, Being an Elite shutdown defensman (Defenders defending is harder than forwards defending), who has SOME offense is harder to become than a Puck moving defensman who isn't all that great defensively.


Anyways, I thought this was a prospects thread.

 

[weems]

Defence is easier to teach and moreso being able to teach "team defence".

Theres a reason that Minny and New Jersey are genuinely always good defensively and its not always because they have the best defensive players. You dont have to be extremely skilled to become a good defensive player. If you look at some of the shutdown defencemen in the league they are generally some of the least skilled players.

Its much easier to teach a player how to read a game, play positional hockey and be able to neutralize offensive players then it is to teach unskilled players how to become skilled players offensively. Plus offensive players are usually always guys with good hands, vision, shot etc thruout there entire minor hockey. It's alot easier to school a player at the NHL level on defence then it is to attempt to all the sudden develop some non existent offensive skills.

Defence for sure.

 

[bobermay]

Not at all

Defensive

Positioning - Can be taught
Foot Speed - You have it or you dont, can practice it i guess
Poke Checking/Stick lift - taught
Block shots - I guess thats a skill..but can be taught to a degree
Hitting - can be taught

Offensive

Positioning - Can be taught
Foot Speed - You have it or you dont, can practice it i guess
Dekeing - Taught to a degree, but again you either have it or not.
Passing - Taught to a degree, but u cant teach a player how to do a cross ice pass through traffic.
Shot - Can teach the basics, but power and accuracy no..

Its a lot more complicated than this...

With enough practice, any player can become great in these areas you just listed IMO.

For Defensemen, Thinking the game defensively is just as hard or harder than thinking the game offensively imo..

 

[weems]

And being a defensive stud doesn't take skill? Thats funny, that should mean that everyone in the league is extraordinary defensively.


I think, Being an Elite shutdown defensman (Defenders defending is harder than forwards defending), who has SOME offense is harder to become than a Puck moving defensman who isn't all that great defensively.


Anyways, I thought this was a prospects thread.

Sure but not nearly as much as it takes to be a all around stud.

Players like Willie Mitchell, Robyn Regehr, Anton Volchenkov are some of the best shutdown players in the league and they are also some of the least skilled players in the league.

 

[weems]

Its a lot more complicated than this...

With enough practice, any player can become great in these areas you just listed IMO.

For Defensemen, Thinking the game defensively is just as hard or harder than thinking the game offensively imo..

Learning defence is easier then all the sudden developing hands, speed, vision or a shot that have never been there in the first place.

 

[bobermay]

Sure but not nearly as much as it takes to be a all around stud.

Players like Willie Mitchell, Robyn Regehr, Anton Volchenkov are some of the best shutdown players in the league and they are also some of the least skilled players in the league.

Yeah, least skilled offensively, okay.

But the OP wrote this because of the Karlsson-Schenn thread. I think being great defensively WHILE contributing offensively is much harder than being an average PMD.

 

[weems]

Yeah, least skilled offensively, okay.

But the OP wrote this because of the Karlsson-Schenn thread. I think being great defensively WHILE contributing offensively is much harder than being an average PMD.

Nope just least skilled in general.

Do you think young players grow up and think "Hey I want to be a one dimensional shutdown D".

Usually these guys become shutdown type players because they are not skilled enough to be anything else.

 

[Samsquanch]

Yeah, least skilled offensively, okay.

But the OP wrote this because of the Karlsson-Schenn thread. I think being great defensively WHILE contributing offensively is much harder than being an average PMD.

Keep going man, even your fellow leaf fans dont seem to be agreeing at this point.

You have a potential homerun with the offensive guys, not so much with the defensive guys. Thats because offense cant be taught.

 

[bobermay]

Learning defence is easier then all the sudden developing hands, speed, vision or a shot that have never been there in the first place.

I agree... but I don't think the defensive side of the game gets enough credit.

1) Physically, getting shots 90+ MPH towards you, and sacrificing the body. The Angles of the shots also have a factor
2) Positioning defensively is harder than Positioning offensively. Any Mistake defensively can create a goal... and positioning mistake offensively just means its harder to score a goal.
3) You have to be more aware players on the ice...
etc.