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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season VI: It's no longer the off-season, but the thread isn't done yet

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Puckstuff said:
Fangraphs has them at 80 wins with Ramirez so without him... not good. It just seems like their going no where this year if they move Ramirez and they would only burn a year of control on Biggio, Kirk or whoever in a year where they aren't going to win. I think it's unlikely they would be better with Pearson and Kirk for example then Ramirez so less then 80 wins would be probable to me. These are their next wave of prospects who are all in the top 100.

Valera, 21
Espino, 21
Arias, 22
Rocchio, 21
Freeman, 22

I can't see why an owner of a low budget team would want to trade for Biggio when his service time has already begun when they could target Groshans and Martinez who have a similar eta with most of those other guys. Kirk or Pearson is possible but even then I would prefer Martinez/Groshans. An ETA of 2023 or 2024 for Groshans and Martinez seems perfect for them. At least from a control perspective it makes more sense for me to target Martinez/Groshans over Kirk/Pearson. That's just how I would approach it though if I'm an owner on a budget team that really values the additional control. In addition to that I'd move Bieber, Pleasec, Reyes and aim to be good again by 2024... I don't know what Cleveland will do though.
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But that's assuming that our GM is making Martinez available (which he likely isnt)
 
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Really interested to know the behind the scenes on this Toronto and Cleveland trade talks. Not sure if Cleveland is playing hardball or us.
 
Amadeus said:
Really interested to know the behind the scenes on this Toronto and Cleveland trade talks. Not sure if Cleveland is playing hardball or us.
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The sense I get is that Ramirez and Cleveland prefer to work out an extension, but I think are just massively far apart.

if they can’t reach one by opening day, he’ll be traded, and I think we probably have the most interest and/or the best offer.
 
Bjindaho said:
Bah! I hate it when the Yankees make out well because someone wanted a lefty (and a mediocre one at that).
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To be fair, Castro is an equally mediocre righty.

This is interesting to me because the Yankees traded away a guy with a poor ERA and good peripherals last year for a guy with a good ERA and awful peripherals.
 
Cor said:
The sense I get is that Ramirez and Cleveland prefer to work out an extension, but I think are just massively far apart.

if they can’t reach one by opening day, he’ll be traded, and I think we probably have the most interest and/or the best offer.
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Definitely looks that way, yeah. And it sounds like Ramirez wants to stay there and Cleveland is trying to leverage that to get him to accept a low-ball offer.
 


Strange trade as Reese is much better and slightly younger than Collins. Collins is a career -1.2 fWAR in 321 PAs vs Reese who is 2.3 fWAR in 400 PAs.

But i assume this is done because Collins has an option left and Reese doesnt. The Jays dont want to start the season with 3 catchers so Kirk and Jansen with the Jays and Collins gets optioned.

Still strange unless something else is coming. You dont trade MLB depth for AAA even if options are the main motivator.

Collins has a great walk rate and was top 30 in Barrel% and top 10 in hard hit contact by catchers last season. But his defense looks awful. This only make sense if another move is coming like a trade (you know for who). Or a free agent signing like Garder, Upton or Conforto. If not, then im not sure i like the move. I rather Reese than carrying another pitcher.
 
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phillipmike said:


Strange trade as Reese is much better and slightly younger than Collins. Collins is a career -1.2 fWAR in 321 PAs vs Reese who is 2.3 fWAR in 400 PAs.

But i assume this is done because Collins has an option left and Reese doesnt. The Jays dont want to start the season with 3 catchers so Kirk and Jansen with the Jays and Collins gets optioned.

Still strange unless something else is coming. You dont trade MLB depth for AAA even if options are the main motivator.
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Worst minor league season for Collins was a 128 wRC+.

Needs to improve defensively but has options. McGuire was in danger of us having to DFA him May 1st.
 
Best comments on Twitter so far;
-Reese puts the “white” in White Sox
-Reese getting traded to the “White Sox” is the ultimate troll job by Atkins. Literally any other team would have been fine
-Reese’s socks are always that color

Poor guy
 
After reading more, Collins has a great BB rate and power. He put up a 90 wRC+ in 230 PA last year and still hasn't hit 600 total.

Just not a catcher (horrid horrid D).
 
phillipmike said:
Best comments on Twitter so far;
-Reese puts the “white” in White Sox
-Reese getting traded to the “White Sox” is the ultimate troll job by Atkins. Literally any other team would have been fine
-Reese’s socks are always that color

Poor guy
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yank-ees would have been appropriate too
 
Am amazed that a catcher could have such a negative impact on his WAR defensively wow.

I would have preferred some low A complete nobody and just pray he turns into something but whatever. Better than nothing I guess
 
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Sounds like Reese was out of options and had to make the club. Collins has an extra year but is about as meh of a return as you could get. Glad that they aren't gonna carry 3 catchers anymore. Chicago Dollar Tree employees now living in fear.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
Am amazed that a catcher could have such a negative impact on his WAR defensively wow.

I would have preferred some low A complete nobody and just pray he turns into something but whatever. Better than nothing I guess
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Even as a prospect, he was regarded as a terrible defensive catcher.

Of course, Toronto seems to be good at working with catchers defensively.
 
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