I’d trade Pearson, Kirk, & Groshans for him. Pearson is always hurt, Moreno in a year will challenge for the catcher spot and JRam will block Groshans.
I don't know for sure but I think Cleveland would be more interested in the minor league guys on the Jays i.e Orelvis Martinez or Jordan Groshans more then they would the MLB guys in Pearson and Kirk. If they trade Ramirez their basically going full rebuild and will recoup assets with as much control as possible (which they should do) and they won't be competitive until at least 2024 or later so they would be just burning valuable years of Pearson and Kirk this year if they traded for them. I think guys like Martinez, Groshans (and Moreno but their not getting him) fit their timeline better. In addition, if we traded for Ramirez we still need a DH and as many arms as possible so just keep Kirk and Pearson because their more valuable to us. I would give them Groshans for sure. I would give them Biggio because we can't keep Biggio at 2B as Ramirez is 2B... I just don't know if the Guardians would want Biggio for the point I just made, so maybe a 3rd team could get involved that wants an MLB ready second basemen like the White Sox and Cleveland get more prospects. Biggio, Groshans, Jiminez are assets I would be willing to move. Perhaps Orelvis Martinez is a possibility but I'd push hard for a larger deal with Clase if we're giving up Martinez. So Martinez, Groshans, Jiminez, Van Eyk, Robberse are the players they're most likely looking at and also Biggio would make sense to go because he would have to but that might be a separate trade.
MLB teams rarely trade stars without getting piece(s) that fit their current roster.
But it's not like any of the guys you mentioned are short-term pieces. Pearson and Kirk each come with 5 years of control. Hell, even Biggio has 4 years left. They would be extremely valuable to a rebuilding Cleveland team, especially since they could all plug into the roster right now.
I have questions about how well Biggio plugs in given that they have a 2B.
I get Pearson and Kirk have 5 years of control but they're going to suck for at least 2 or 3 of those years without Ramirez by looking at their roster. So let's say by 2024 or 2025 when their ready to compete again Pearson or Kirk would only have 2 or 3 years left of control in 2024 or 2025 just when their getting good again. But if they trade for Martinez and/or Groshans they would just be arriving to the MLB at around 2023 or 2024 and would be more in line with their window to win if everything went right for them. If they also target guys like Jiminez or Pinto they would be arriving around 2024 or 2025 and would have 6 years of control vs in 2025 Kirk and Pearson would have 2. For a team that has a 37 million dollar payroll those extra years of control make a big difference especially if it aligns with their timeline of when they would be good again. I think that's why Oakland for example are willing to take the risk on more A ball players because they value those extra years of control. I don't know Cleveland's strategy though I'm just thinking what would make sense from a resource standpoint for a team that could go in the Oakland direction... they could also not go in the Oakland direction I'm just thinking it's a possibility if they move Ramirez.
Assuming that they fit Kirk and Biggio in (without losing value elsewhere), the Indians with these three are somewhere between slightly worse and better.
Back to a more familiar look to the top of the batting order. I guess the Vlad batting second experiment is over?
Biggio is currently projected for 1.7 in 490, Kirk for 1.8 in 351 and Pearson for .5 in 70 innings.
All of these deals except 1 came within season and were baseball deals. The argument could be made that the Samardzija one was a baseball deal even if it had financial motivation. The Donaldson one would have been fine if Lawrie's career didn't spiral due to injuries.
Fangraphs has them at 80 wins with Ramirez so without him... not good. It just seems like their going no where this year if they move Ramirez and they would only burn a year of control on Biggio, Kirk or whoever in a year where they aren't going to win. I think it's unlikely they would be better with Pearson and Kirk for example then Ramirez so less then 80 wins would be probable to me. These are their next wave of prospects who are all in the top 100.
