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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season V: Baseball's back and so are blockbusters (Jays send 4 prospects to A's for 3B Matt Chapman)

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Blair on 590: We're led to believe that a Guardians' scout was following Alejandro Kirk around the Blue Jays' complex

Barker (who is on location this week) notes that the Guardians appear to be looking for big leaguers, that Manoah is a non-starter, but that Pearson is more interesting.

 
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Puckstuff said:
If we aren’t getting another outfielder then keeping Gurriel Jr. is a must just because of how much Grichcuk sucks. Getting Ramirez and then playing Grichcuk every day would just make it not worth it. Gurriel and Biggio both have 4 war potential. That could be 8 WAR going out the door... Grichcuk would become more of a regular then he already is and he is 1 WAR at this point let’s be honest. Are we even sure Ramirez+Grichcuk out performs Gurriel +Biggio? Even if Ramirez is 6 WAR, Grichcuk is so bad (1 war?) for a total of 7-8 WAR it would negate all of Ramirez’s surplus value so we would need another outfielder to replace Gurriel to make it worth it. There’s a risk we could actually be worse if Biggio and Gurriel have big seasons and that’s not even considering all the control you give up. Maybe Gurriel and Biggio totalling 7-8 WAR is a stretch but it’s not that crazy either. Something like Biggio+Kirk+ lower level prospect would be better. I’m not over paying because we don’t have too. If you sign someone like Conforto then it’s a different story but if we aren’t getting another outfielder keep Gurriel Jr.
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To put things into perspective here are streamers projections for each player next year:

Gurriel - 1.4 WAR
Biggio - 1.3 WAR
Total: (2.7 WAR)

Ramirez - 5.8 WAR
Grichuk - 0.9 WAR
Total: (6.7 WAR)
 
Manoah is a non starter because you need him to compete going forward.

The only way he would make sense is if the Jays could somehow swing swiping one of their starting pitchers in a J-Ram trade too. That's not even remotely feasible because the price of such a move hurts my head.
 
Kirk + Biggio + Pearson + mid tier prospect is something I'd probably do for Ramirez.
 
I don't think Pearson gets it done. Cleveland has pitching, what they need going forward is bats. That and as mentioned in the other thread he doesn't have much value.

Biggio + Kirk + Groshans + probably another prospect.

J-ram is a stud, and you have to pay to acquire studs.
 
If there is any way to get J-Ram out of Cleveland the time to do it is now. If Cleveland is looking for players that can make an immediate impact and keep them competitive the Jays have that.

I would be ok giving up Biggio, Kirk, Grichuk, Pearson and prospect (not named Moreno or Martinez or Groshans).

Cleveland can either flip Grichuk for more prospect capital or he immediately becomes a starter for them in the OF on a short term deal. A bat that can provide pop for them.

Interesting that Cleveland has scouts in Dunedin . Where there is smoke there could be fire.
 
I'd hate to give up Biggio. I truly believe the guy is closer to his first 160~ games than he was to last season, and we're trading a 3-4WAR+ talent with control.

But.... it's JRam. You gotta give to get and he's shown its probably a bad idea to play him anywhere besides 2B/DH and maybe OF. I'd still prefer to keep him if possible and have the "regular" lineup look like:

8 - Springer
4 - Ramirez
3 - Vlad
9 - Teo
6 - Bichette
5 - Chapman
7 - Gurriel Jr
DH - Biggio
2 - Jano/Moreno
 
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As much as the continued interest in Jose Ramirez is hilarious and insane, I hope we start hearing about bullpen option links.

That, at this point, is the biggest need over an upgrade at 2B
 
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Cor said:
As much as the continued interest in Jose Ramirez is hilarious and insane, I hope we start hearing about bullpen option links.

That, at this point, is the biggest need over an upgrade at 2B
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who needs a bullpen when you can score 20 runs a game imo
 
Cor said:
As much as the continued interest in Jose Ramirez is hilarious and insane, I hope we start hearing about bullpen option links.

That, at this point, is the biggest need over an upgrade at 2B
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I think people are hyperfixating.

Ramirez at 2B is a downgrade from Biggio's first 162 (and from Espinal last year).

He is more of a sure thing (and the bat plays) but the cost could be foolish.
 
If we are interested in moving Kirk, maybe we should talk Kirk for Kemp and Trivino to add some extra versatility to the bench.
 
2B isn't the biggest area of need, but like others have said Jose Ramirez is so good that it makes up for weaknesses elsewhere. A run scored is the same as a run saved.
 
Bjindaho said:
If we are interested in moving Kirk, maybe we should talk Kirk for Kemp and Trivino to add some extra versatility to the bench.
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Bjindaho said:
I think people are hyperfixating.

Ramirez at 2B is a downgrade from Biggio's first 162 (and from Espinal last year).

He is more of a sure thing (and the bat plays) but the cost could be foolish.
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Are these posts for real?
 
Before the Chapman Trade:

Depth Charts has the Jays ranked 6th with a total 44.9 WAR projection this season;
1647531911381.png


I expect the Jays to move past the Mets and possibly the White Sox and Astros with the addition of Chapman.

3B is ranked 3rd last:

1647531968983.png


1647531977292.png

Jays should take the 7th spot with 4+ WAR

Currently the Jays are projected to finish 2nd in the MLB with 92 wins, only behind the Dodgers with 94. Chapman may get them up to 93-94

1647532000694.png
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I can't fathom not wanting to add a projected 6 WAR player when you have a core built up and locked in for a multiple year run. Those extra wins really add up over a long grinding season.
 
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Bjindaho said:
I think people are hyperfixating.

Ramirez at 2B is a downgrade from Biggio's first 162 (and from Espinal last year).

He is more of a sure thing (and the bat plays) but the cost could be foolish.
Click to expand...
I had to read this like 5 times before comprehending what you are saying.....I mean....wh..what? I mean I can understand thinking it isn't the best use of assets...but JRam is one of the best infielders in baseball lol
 
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I was thinking this morning that a year and a half ago we had 8 top 100 prospects: Pearson, Martin, Groshans, Manoah, Kirk, Moreno, Martinez, and SWR. 6 of those 8 are still in the organization. We traded 2 for Berrios and extended him. We drafted Hoglund and revived Smith from the depths of busthood and traded them for Chapman. Signed Springer, signed Gausman, signed Kikuchi. We signed Ray and Semien to 1 years deals that essentially turned them into free draft picks to replace the 2 guys traded from above.

So we started with 8 top 100 prospects, added Springer, Gausman, Chapman, Berrios, and Kikuchi and lost just 2 of those 8 prospects and added 2 high picks to replace them. Essentially breaking even. That seems unbelievable.
 
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