phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Crappy to find out this way.
Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season V: Baseball's back and so are blockbusters (Jays send 4 prospects to A's for 3B Matt Chapman)
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Crappy to find out this way.
phillipmike
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phillipmike
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The biggest thing about Tapia is that if he doesn't play well, he doesn't play.
Grichuk was still playing regularly even when his performance dropped off a cliff.
Grichuk was still playing regularly even when his performance dropped off a cliff.
Kurtz
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That's a decent chunk of change to send to Colorado. Gotta assume our mgmt really likes Pinto.
Starry Knight
Tele-Wyatt
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
15?
Raimel Tapia, career innings played in:
LF: 2128.1 (approximately 236 games worth of time)
CF: 189 (~21 games)
RF: 233.2 (~26 games)
the math is a little shonky because at almost 440 career GP this means that around half of his appearances would've had to come in partial games where he subbed in/out, and yes like 1/6th of a season is not a grand sample to make final declarations on him, but he has been consistently mostly bad in that time so it's not like there are tons of fluctuations in his performance that make me think this is something that will smooth out towards the positive. They say I'm going to be predisposed to believing he's not very good until shown otherwise.
Randal wasn't that good at CF, but he was passable as a temporary replacement who at least had the makings of a worthwhile bat.
That's more of an indictment of how abjectly awful Ben Revere was at taking a walk than it is a showcase of Tapia being good at that aspect of the game. his career OBP is .325. dropped onto last year's Blue Jays roster with a minimum threshold of 100 PAs, that would put him 9th of 15 players on the roster, just barely ahead of Gurriel and down-year-Biggio and only really comfortably leading Reese, Jansen, Grichuk, Joe Panik, and the awful start Rowdy had before being dealt. Not the greatest of company. If you're going to be a speedster with questionable D you should probably be better than getting on base less frequently than 2/3rds of the roster.
The trade seems somewhat predicated on the idea that the Jays will magically fix Tapia's issues to turn him into a quality player. But that rarely happens with low-value trade targets in their early/mid 20s. It almost never happens with guys in their late 20s. Maybe it's somewhat of a devil-you-know situation, but I look at what Grichuk brought to the table and I'd take his higher floor as the 4th OF vs Tapia's higher-but-farther-away ceiling.
The Jays definitely overused him. He's a bench player through and through and an overpaid one at that. I'm not trying to take anything away from what he did and how he conducted himself... but I'm not going to pump his tires either for doing what every pro is expected to do. He showed up like a pro and played hard. Good on him.
A lot of talk that he is an up and coming prospect. Lots of rockies fans are mad they let him go
That completely kills any value we would have gotten from this trade. We can't use it to get another good player, we now don't have a moderately decent replacement for when Springer gets injured-and he WILL get injured-we still don't have an interesting outfield prospect, AND we didn't need yet another infielder prospect.
Are you sure? Because it sure sounds like it.
And, really, if he was so overused, who exactly were we stealing at bats from that made his use so punishing? Biggio? Alford? Davis? Smith? Palacios? MacKinney? Frickin' Fisher? BRITO???
Heck, even when we had FAST outfielders, they still sucked because none of them knew how to steal a base. Except Pompey. What a tragedy that was.
You guys got to get over this "all star at every position" syndrome you're all suffering from. The Jays were EXTREMELY fortunate to have a "bad" player that could routinely hit home runs, had a chance to trigger months long hotstreaks, and who could be plugged in at every outfield position. The guy could get on your nerves, but he was by no means the biggest problem the Jays had these last few years. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly unaware of the gaggle of piss poor outfielders we've had over the years.
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You guys still haven't fixed the bouncy post updates problem, huh?
Which is money being wasted. At least Grichuk still always had the chance to hit a big home run.
In COLORADO. He failed to hit much in frickin' Colorado.
Cloned
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Actually, my thought was that they wanted Pinto as infielder to replace the infield prospect (probably not Orelvis) that they send to Cleveland in a Ramirez deal.Maybe Pinto is going to Cleveland in a Ramirez deal?
Blue Jays rework bench trading Grichuk to Rockies for Tapia, Pinto - Sportsnet.ca
TORONTO – The Toronto Blue Jays reworked their bench Thursday by sending right-handed-hitting Randal Grichuk and cash to the Colorado Rockies for fellow outfielder Raimel Tapia, a left-handed batter, and minor-leaguer Adrian Pinto.
Tapia is a high-contact (95th percentile whiff rate) and speedy (81st percentile sprint speed) 28-year-old who has played 266 of his 329 major-league games in left field. He joins Cavan Biggio and Reese McGuire as the only lefty bats currently expected to be on the opening day roster, although non-roster invite Greg Bird is being given an extended look this spring.
None is the type of everyday, impact lefty hitter the Blue Jays could use to balance an almost exclusively right-handed lineup, but Tapia gives manager Charlie Montoyo options for speed and defence off the bench and a platoon opportunity for the starting lineup.
The Blue Jays have checked in on free agent Michael Conforto, the sole remaining impact left-handed bat left in free agency, according to another industry source, although that’s not necessarily indicative of anything other than due diligence. Newsday’s Erik Boland reported earlier this week that they’ve also shown interest in longtime Yankees nemesis Brett Gardner.
Trading Grichuk and the $10.33 million he’s due this season and next frees up some cash with Tapia set to earn $3.95 million this year. He has one more year of arbitration left before hitting free agency after 2023.
Rob Gillies of the Associated Press reports that the Blue Jays are sending just over $9.7 million to the Rockies — $5,383,333 this year and $4,333,333 in 2023 — covering a little more than half the $18,666,666 owed to Grichuk.
Trading Grichuk is not without risk, as his power profile should play up at Coors Field. With 394 career games in centre field, he also offered strong protection behind George Springer while Tapia, with only 189.2 innings over 37 games at the position, is much less experienced there.
Still, Grichuk was somewhat of a redundancy in an outfield that also includes Teoscar Hernandez and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. in the corners and he struggled last season when moved into a part-time role, which barring injury was likely how he’d be used this season, too.
TORONTO – The Toronto Blue Jays reworked their bench Thursday by sending right-handed-hitting Randal Grichuk and cash to the Colorado Rockies for fellow outfielder Raimel Tapia, a left-handed batter, and minor-leaguer Adrian Pinto.
Tapia is a high-contact (95th percentile whiff rate) and speedy (81st percentile sprint speed) 28-year-old who has played 266 of his 329 major-league games in left field. He joins Cavan Biggio and Reese McGuire as the only lefty bats currently expected to be on the opening day roster, although non-roster invite Greg Bird is being given an extended look this spring.
None is the type of everyday, impact lefty hitter the Blue Jays could use to balance an almost exclusively right-handed lineup, but Tapia gives manager Charlie Montoyo options for speed and defence off the bench and a platoon opportunity for the starting lineup.
The Blue Jays have checked in on free agent Michael Conforto, the sole remaining impact left-handed bat left in free agency, according to another industry source, although that’s not necessarily indicative of anything other than due diligence. Newsday’s Erik Boland reported earlier this week that they’ve also shown interest in longtime Yankees nemesis Brett Gardner.
Trading Grichuk and the $10.33 million he’s due this season and next frees up some cash with Tapia set to earn $3.95 million this year. He has one more year of arbitration left before hitting free agency after 2023.
Rob Gillies of the Associated Press reports that the Blue Jays are sending just over $9.7 million to the Rockies — $5,383,333 this year and $4,333,333 in 2023 — covering a little more than half the $18,666,666 owed to Grichuk.
Trading Grichuk is not without risk, as his power profile should play up at Coors Field. With 394 career games in centre field, he also offered strong protection behind George Springer while Tapia, with only 189.2 innings over 37 games at the position, is much less experienced there.
Still, Grichuk was somewhat of a redundancy in an outfield that also includes Teoscar Hernandez and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. in the corners and he struggled last season when moved into a part-time role, which barring injury was likely how he’d be used this season, too.
This obsession with Grichuk is weird. He's a poor fourth OF.
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dredeye
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Pinto played 2b,ss and cf last year. So he’s positioned as a 2b but can obviously move around and maybe they move him to the outfield. Either way he looks to be a riser prospect and even if he is an infielder long term if there isn’t a spot for him and he can moved to fill another position. He’s also very young and may be the next wave when we need some cheaper options. He’s at least 4 years away so there’s a lot that will happen between now and then
As for Grichuk. He was a good Jay that was clearly on the outside looking in. This does alleviate some money from the roster which is valuable. Although, like all of us I would have preferred us sending less over in the deal. It does seem like a lot. But as been mentioned this could just as easily be us trying to do right by him and giving him the opportunity to play everyday. I’m sure he’s bummed to leave the though. We now have a lh bat and speed which are two things that were missing from the team. We already have tonnes of pop so that part of his game won’t really be missed. Time will tell but as of today I’m happy with the trade
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BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Salary aside, it seems like they swapped power for speed in a 4th Ofer.
One interesting thing to note is that Tapia cut is SO rate to 13% last year (133 games) .. He was sitting at 22% three seasons ago (138 games). Perhaps he can build off that success of the bench buried in the line up with more favourable match ups.
One interesting thing to note is that Tapia cut is SO rate to 13% last year (133 games) .. He was sitting at 22% three seasons ago (138 games). Perhaps he can build off that success of the bench buried in the line up with more favourable match ups.
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phillipmike
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Major League Leaderboards - 2020 to 2021 - Batting | FanGraphs Baseball
Last 2 years Tapia has a higher WAR than Grichuk. Similar value players but they bring different things. Jays traded power and slightly better defense for left handedness, speed and on base ability.
I prefer Grichuk but when you consider that the Jays save $7M+ over 2 years and you get a prospect back, it makes sense.
Also Tapia competed for the NL batting title in the shortened 2020 season.
Notes from Rockies fans on Tapia;
-Huge fan favourite
-Infectious personality and smile (they wanted me to say this)
-Great speed, pitchers hate then he is on base, which is a lot because…
-he gets in base a lot
-improving defense every year
Reminds me a lot of Ezekiel Correra who announced his retirement today. In other former CF Blue Jays news, the Guelph Royals signed Dalton Pompey today.
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Grichuk sad to leave, wants Blue Jays fans to remember him for playing the game hard
3:06 | March 24, 2022
Hazel Mae caught up with Randal Grichuk after being traded to the Colorado Rockies, to discuss his bittersweet feeling of leaving such a great clubhouse and great group of guys, but also excited for a fresh start in a hitter's friendly ballpark.
Atkins says acquiring Tapia is 'a better complimentary piece' for Blue Jays
0:52 | March 24, 2022
Watch as Ross Atkins addresses the media about acquiring Raimel Tapia from the Rockies, and why he is 'a better complimentary piece' for the Blue Jays with his tools and being a left-handed batter.
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phillipmike
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phillipmike
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That comment makes me think that underneath the smiles, maybe Vladdy did honestly react to that the same way that MJ reacted to Detroit refusing to shake his hand.
God help the pitchers in this league if they have to deal with angry Vladdy!
God help the pitchers in this league if they have to deal with angry Vladdy!
Conforto is complicated somewhat by the draft pick... with Semien, he cost nothing and had the chance of bringing back a comp pick. With Conforto, he costs a pick and has no chance of bringing one back.
But still... adding a guy like that, who had a .344 OBP in his worst season since becoming a full-time player, as a LH bat to the bottom half of the lineup who be such a huge improvement to this team. Suddenly you would have 4 starting OF, 5 starting IF, and 2 starting C, and you could just shuffle guys around as needed based on matchups, days off, and injuries.
I don't expect anything more in the next couple of weeks, but one more addition like Conforto would be amazing.
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