Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season V: Baseball's back and so are blockbusters (Jays send 4 prospects to A's for 3B Matt Chapman)

[Morgs]

Pinto's line was OUTRAGEOUS last year in his first pro year.

224 PA - 1.029 OPS, 3HR, 17 BB%/8 K%, 185 wRC+.

The very definition of a lottery ticket, holy shit.

 

[Bjindaho]

Tapia to employ versatility with Bryant manning left

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- It’s a new season and a new set of challenges for Raimel Tapia, but the outfielder’s outlook remains the same. “I’ve always felt like I had to win a spot, and I’ve never taken anything for granted,” Tapia said in Spanish. “I’ve learned in baseball that nothing

www.mlb.com

 

[Bjindaho]

Pinto's line was OUTRAGEOUS last year in his first pro year.

224 PA - 1.029 OPS, 3HR, 17 BB%/8 K%, 185 wRC+.

The very definition of a lottery ticket, holy shit.

And 41SB

 

[Morgs]

With that stature and name, it's almost frustrating how obvious his nickname will be.

Jose Altuve?

 

[Bjindaho]

One big thing this does is give us a late-game pinch runner (on days he isn't playing) who can actually play well enough to be in the lineup on days where isn't just a pinch runner.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Good one Randy

 

[djdev]

ye i like this alot, having guys lower in the lineup that get on base frequently and steal bases and can distract pitchers when the lineup turns over and the big boys come up to the plate is very welcomed imo, we have plenty of power. speed and high on base% is needed.

 

[Deebo]

He doesn't have many innings at CF.

Do we have adequate cover at CF if Springer is out?

 

[Patmac40]

Love the move. Getting the lefty bat who hits for a decent average, with excellent speed and good defensive metrics, and a lottery ticket for Grichuk and cash? That's great management.

 

[Discoverer]

One big thing this does is give us a late-game pinch runner (on days he isn't playing) who can actually play well enough to be in the lineup on days where isn't just a pinch runner.

That's the big difference between them, yeah. You don't want either to start, but they're basically interchangeable there. But off the bench, Grichuk provides basically nothing since he's a pure HR hitter but worse than all the starters. Tapia is a good base runner and probably a better defender than Grichuk, so a much better fit.

Now just make some launch angle changes with him and maybe he'll be kinda not awful!

 

[stickty111]

Nice work by Atkins getting rid of that contract. Grichuk seems like a great guy but man so flawed as a hitter. You get some speed back and a decent prospect to build.

 

[Bjindaho]

That's the big difference between them, yeah. You don't want either to start, but they're basically interchangeable there. But off the bench, Grichuk provides basically nothing since he's a pure HR hitter but worse than all the starters. Tapia is a good base runner and probably a better defender than Grichuk, so a much better fit.

Now just make some launch angle changes with him and maybe he'll be kinda not awful!

Tapia hit more grounders than anyone else in baseball last year. Of course, he has the speed to beat out a lot of them.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Can we send Buck with Grichuk? Asking for a friend.

At least now we don't have to hear about how integral Grichuk is when he has his inevitable two week stretch where he looks like an all-star.

His numbers are going to explode at Coors too lmao.

 

[The Nemesis]

Hey Randal, this is Randal.

No one cares. Work harder. In Colorado.

 

[Kurtz]

So I like this deal and everything, but if you're in a good mood....maybe don't look at Tapia's career home/away splits.

But let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if we added another OF at some point.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

That's the big difference between them, yeah. You don't want either to start, but they're basically interchangeable there. But off the bench, Grichuk provides basically nothing since he's a pure HR hitter but worse than all the starters. Tapia is a good base runner and probably a better defender than Grichuk, so a much better fit.

Now just make some launch angle changes with him and maybe he'll be kinda not awful!

Yeah Tapia has been atrocious outside of Coors (and slightly below average at Coors). Like you said, some LA tweaks and he could be serviceable with the bat.

Fine with him as a bench guy, more so than Grichuk.

 

[canucksfan]

I like this move.

 

[Amadeus]

Clear winners of the trade = Baltimore Orioles!

 

[Da Cool Rula]

I think Ramirez wants to stay in Cleveland and Cleveland wants to keep him. But it’s just a matter of finding the middle ground.

Cleveland knows in their heart that they should trade him but they are playing hard ball with the Jays.

I’m fine going in with this team. If Cleveland wants to play hard ball, let them.

Sure they can say we aren’t trading a perrienal MVP candidate unless we get Moreno or Orelvis+. And we can say, no one else is offering prospects of that caliber. So continue to be unreasonable with your ask, you get nothing and when you aren’t good by the deadline, you get even less back like they did with Lindor, Kluber, Carrasco etc. as they had less control.

I looked at the top prospects list and the only teams that are contenders and have prospects at the same level or better than the Moreno/Orelvis tier is Seattle and SF.

Seattle just traded for Suarez and Frazier. And the Giants have Longoria and just got La Stella. SF could be an option but Zaidi doesn’t like trading prospects. So they could wait until the deadline but I doubt these teams have better offers by then.

So there is virtually no team at this stage offering top 30-40 prospects for Ramirez. And I doubt anyone is offering a package with Kirk, Pearson, Groshans, Biggio, Gurriel etc. type players.

Bagaera said Toronto and Cleveland agreed to a deal for Ramirez at the deadline last summer and Cleveland backed out “5 minutes before the deadline”. I guarantee one of Moreno, Orelvis or Manoah were in the deal. Well they will pay the price because it’s unlikely Manoah or Moreno are on the table now.

And if they don’t accept the deal before the season maybe they lose out on another player that the Jays are offering now, who becomes untouchable at the deadline like Orelvis, Kirk or Pearson.

Keep the players and at least 1-2 of Kirk, Pearson, Biggio, Espinal, Gurriel, and/or Groshans is bound to breakout and you won’t need to overpay. If it’s Biggio or Espinal then you don’t need a 2B. And if you need a 2B, can always go after Marte.

Im not trading either of those guys in a pkge for JRam. This is team is arguably a WS condender as it is right now.

 

[Blitzkrug]

So I like this deal and everything, but if you're in a good mood....maybe don't look at Tapia's career home/away splits.

But let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if we added another OF at some point.

Typical Coors effect stuff. Nothing really shocking there.

Like someone else said, he's a bench guy that will probably be utilized more for his speed than anything. You can live with that if it means Grichuk is gone.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

I think Ramirez wants to stay in Cleveland and Cleveland wants to keep him. But it’s just a matter of finding the middle ground.

Cleveland knows in their heart that they should trade him but they are playing hard ball with the Jays.

I’m fine going in with this team. If Cleveland wants to play hard ball, let them.

Sure they can say we aren’t trading a perrienal MVP candidate unless we get Moreno or Orelvis+. And we can say, no one else is offering prospects of that caliber. So continue to be unreasonable with your ask, you get nothing and when you aren’t good by the deadline, you get even less back like they did with Lindor, Kluber, Carrasco etc. as they had less control.

I looked at the top prospects list and the only teams that are contenders and have prospects at the same level or better than the Moreno/Orelvis tier is Seattle and SF.

Seattle just traded for Suarez and Frazier. And the Giants have Longoria and just got La Stella. SF could be an option but Zaidi doesn’t like trading prospects. So they could wait until the deadline but I doubt these teams have better offers by then.

So there is virtually no team at this stage offering top 30-40 prospects for Ramirez. And I doubt anyone is offering a package with Kirk, Pearson, Groshans, Biggio, Gurriel etc. type players.

Bagaera said Toronto and Cleveland agreed to a deal for Ramirez at the deadline last summer and Cleveland backed out “5 minutes before the deadline”. I guarantee one of Moreno, Orelvis or Manoah were in the deal. Well they will pay the price because it’s unlikely Manoah or Moreno are on the table now.

And if they don’t accept the deal before the season maybe they lose out on another player that the Jays are offering now, who becomes untouchable at the deadline like Orelvis, Kirk or Pearson.

Keep the players and at least 1-2 of Kirk, Pearson, Biggio, Espinal, Gurriel, and/or Groshans is bound to breakout and you won’t need to overpay. If it’s Biggio or Espinal then you don’t need a 2B. And if you need a 2B, can always go after Marte.

Im not trading either of those guys in a pkge for 2 years of JRam. This is team is arguably a WS condender as it is right now.

 

[Bjindaho]

Yeah Tapia has been atrocious outside of Coors (and slightly below average at Coors). Like you said, some LA tweaks and he could be serviceable with the bat.

Fine with him as a bench guy, more so than Grichuk.

One thing to note about that. Because Tapia hits so many grounders, he gets almost no benefit at all from playing there.

I hope he is good at bunting, because if he is, then every 3rd baseman will have to play inside the bag all the time (if you have no power, then you also have no incentive not to bunt for a hit every time).

 

[Da Cool Rula]

I think Ramirez wants to stay in Cleveland and Cleveland wants to keep him. But it’s just a matter of finding the middle ground.

Cleveland knows in their heart that they should trade him but they are playing hard ball with the Jays.

I’m fine going in with this team. If Cleveland wants to play hard ball, let them.

Sure they can say we aren’t trading a perrienal MVP candidate unless we get Moreno or Orelvis+. And we can say, no one else is offering prospects of that caliber. So continue to be unreasonable with your ask, you get nothing and when you aren’t good by the deadline, you get even less back like they did with Lindor, Kluber, Carrasco etc. as they had less control.

I looked at the top prospects list and the only teams that are contenders and have prospects at the same level or better than the Moreno/Orelvis tier is Seattle and SF.

Seattle just traded for Suarez and Frazier. And the Giants have Longoria and just got La Stella. SF could be an option but Zaidi doesn’t like trading prospects. So they could wait until the deadline but I doubt these teams have better offers by then.

So there is virtually no team at this stage offering top 30-40 prospects for Ramirez. And I doubt anyone is offering a package with Kirk, Pearson, Groshans, Biggio, Gurriel etc. type players.

Bagaera said Toronto and Cleveland agreed to a deal for Ramirez at the deadline last summer and Cleveland backed out “5 minutes before the deadline”. I guarantee one of Moreno, Orelvis or Manoah were in the deal. Well they will pay the price because it’s unlikely Manoah or Moreno are on the table now.

And if they don’t accept the deal before the season maybe they lose out on another player that the Jays are offering now, who becomes untouchable at the deadline like Orelvis, Kirk or Pearson.

Keep the players and at least 1-2 of Kirk, Pearson, Biggio, Espinal, Gurriel, and/or Groshans is bound to breakout and you won’t need to overpay. If it’s Biggio or Espinal then you don’t need a 2B. And if you need a 2B, can always go after Marte.

Im not trading either of those guys in a pkge for 2 years JRam. This is team is arguably a WS condender as it is right now.

Sorry double posted

 

[hoc123]

So I like this deal and everything, but if you're in a good mood....maybe don't look at Tapia's career home/away splits.

But let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if we added another OF at some point.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he is a little better in Toronto than in Colorado. It’s important to remember that while hitters have an advantage in Colorado, they also have a disadvantage every where else because of the different altitude affecting the baseball. Because of how many ground balls Tapia hits, and his lack of power, I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t get the same benefit to hitting at Coors that other hitters do, while still facing the same difficulties.

 

[Hoverhand]

So I like this deal and everything, but if you're in a good mood....maybe don't look at Tapia's career home/away splits.

But let's just say that I wouldn't be surprised if we added another OF at some point.

or compare Tapia and Grichuk's defensive metrics for that matter.

I think our staff can do some fun things with Tapia and it was time to move on from Grichuk but we still need a dependable CF option off the bench.