Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

[ValJamesDuex]

For those not on Instagram

HJS - HR 3 - Kevyn Adams Joins The Show

06-28 HJS HR 3 - Sabres General Manager Joins The Show To Discuss The Sabres Offseason Plans, Jeremy Talks About Why He Hates The Term "Roadblock" When It Comes To Young Players.

www.audacy.com

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

To keep reiterating how much you like Anderson at this point, shows KA is probably actually relying on Anderson as an option. That and the Bishop trade make it fairly clear what the overall mindset is going into next season. Yes, I will still wait to see what happens, but I'm not confident for now.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Marino would be absolutely perfect for this team. I don't think PIT moves him unless it's in a package for an elite established player, and if they did, #28 is not adequate value. It would have to be #16 for them to consider it IMO.

If the Pens are asking for 16, Adams should go elsewhere.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Any guessses on the FA contract KA mentioned they are talking about ?

 

[jmelm]

would love a guy like Nino

I'd rather have any of Copp/Paul/Burakovsky. But if we struck out on all of those I'd consider it. Wouldn't want to go more than 3 or max 4 years though. I'm not 100% convinced his game won't fall off.

If the Pens are asking for 16, Adams should go elsewhere.

The Pens aren't asking for anything. He's an integral part of their top 4 and they're in win-now mode. But #28 isn't enough for a guy who's a legit #3/4 Dman who can play 1st unit PK and 2nd unit PP.

 

[Der Jaeger]

The Pens aren't asking for anything. He's an integral part of their top 4 and they're in win-now mode. But #28 isn't enough for a guy who's a legit #3/4 Dman who can play 1st unit PK and 2nd unit PP.

Maybe. But the Sabres aren't in win-now mode, so if Adams was talking to Hextall, and Marino came up, and Hextall asked for 16, Adams shouldn't do it.

 

[jmelm]

im not gifting Quinn and Peterka spots. I have no problem giving them time based on how they do in preseason.

im not putting them in the press box.

i have Krebs starting in Rochester for time at center.

No one is gifting anyone anything, but Krebs will sooner play W in the NHL before playing C in the AHL. In my mind, Thompson/Cozens/Mitts have those 3 C spots locked up. Players start at W in the NHL all the time before moving to C later.

 

[BloFan4Life]

No one is gifting anyone anything, but Krebs will sooner play W in the NHL before playing C in the AHL. In my mind, Thompson/Cozens/Mitts have those 3 C spots locked up. Players start at W in the NHL all the time before moving to C later.

I can confidently say, Mitts has no future on this team. I wish they would just trade him now,

He just doesn't fit the team KA is trying to build. Just too weak and slow.

 

[RefsIdeas]

For those not on Instagram

HJS - HR 3 - Kevyn Adams Joins The Show

06-28 HJS HR 3 - Sabres General Manager Joins The Show To Discuss The Sabres Offseason Plans, Jeremy Talks About Why He Hates The Term "Roadblock" When It Comes To Young Players.

www.audacy.com

I really recommend listening to this. I think Howard & Jeremy did a good job of asking fairly tough questions

 

[jmelm]

Maybe. But the Sabres aren't in win-now mode, so if Adams was talking to Hextall, and Marino came up, and Hextall asked for 16, Adams shouldn't do it.

I don't see a fit here, given where the Pens are at. But just from a value proposition, if the Sabres felt Marino was in the same tier as the available guys at #16 (who knows how their board is ranked??), Marino could be here for the next 8-10 years. Like most Dmen his age, he hasn't even peaked yet. He's exactly what we need, putting aside trade cost.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I don't see a fit here, given where the Pens are at. But just from a value proposition, if the Sabres felt Marino was in the same tier as the available guys at #16 (who knows how their board is ranked??), Marino could be here for the next 8-10 years. Like most Dmen his age, he hasn't even peaked yet. He's exactly what we need, putting aside trade cost.

I don't either. While he's a good fit, the Sabres need to make their picks and add to the group they have. Once the team is in a position where they're within striking distance of a longer playoff run, then they should make this type of trade.

 

[TehDoak]

The other pretty consistent theme is that none of those teams have two truly elite defensemen. Dahlin and Power are obviously not there yet, but the potential exists that they could be two players who are equivalent in impact, if not in style, to players like Hedman, Doughty and Letang.

That said, as much as I like to fantasize about the Sabres' current crop of players not just being a playoff team but eventually becoming a multi-cup winning team (like the teams you reference), that is probably not realistic. Every team and fanbase should have aspirations to be sure, and I want a cup as much as anyone, but my expectation is not that we become the next NHL dynasty (after the Avalanche?). More realistic is that if almost everything goes well we become the Nashville Predators, a team that consistently makes the playoffs and that has a couple of deep runs, or, dare to dream, the St. Louis Blues, a team who has it all fall into place for one glorious season.

Nashville is a decent comparison, with the deep elite defense and kind of piecework forward group. The potential is there, but still years out of that level of success. Dahlin would have to take that next step in being at an elite level. And we'd need a goalie.

I've mostly been giving Adams the benefit of the doubt on much of what he's doing and his vision for the team long term. That said this is just not acceptable to me:



What internal solutions in net? They have 1 goalie who is an RFA and that's it. You have 2 who are back in college for another season and any expectation of them playing a role in less than 2 - 3 years is foolish. Even when one of them makes it to the NHL full time it could still be a couple of years before they are ready to become the starter. Otherwise you could end up with the Swayman/Ullmark scenario Boston has which in my opinion is a pretty damn good problem to have. Goalies are not hard to trade, they are constantly in demand unless they are Mrazek.

Get a starting goalie, who cares if it's for 4 or 5 years. Make the kids earn their damn jobs.

Because it's never been about developing youth, it's been about spending less. The whole 'we don't want to block young players' isn't a legit strategy, it's a weak justification for spending less than the cap floor for the 2nd year in a row.

 

[Ace]

I can confidently say, Mitts has no future on this team. I wish they would just trade him now,

He just doesn't fit the team KA is trying to build. Just too weak and slow.

We’ll all look back at this as the moment we knew Mittelstadt was going to break out

 

[jmelm]

Watching the AVS in the playoffs, I come away with what I think is the right plan to build the Sabres. They should go heavy. Every team in the league is going to build speed to play like the AVS, and there isn’t enough NHL caliber talent with speed to go around. That means highly capable players with less than ideal speed will be available. When they zig, you zag. Just a thought.

I disagree. I've said this in the draft thread: I think what we're seeing with the Avs is a glimpse of the future. We saw it with PIT in '16 and '17 when they won, and we're seeing it again with COL now.

The issue is the NHL and youth/junior teams for years have prioritized size -- and that is why there isn't enough talent with speed to go around to allow all teams play this way. We've started to see that change in recent years, with more young kids who are highly skilled, but may lack ideal size, get more opportunity. But the full effect of that won't be seen until the kids growing up today who are now getting more chances get older and climb up the ranks.

So it will take some time for that next wave & talent pool to arrive, but by the time they do hit NHL in the next 3-5 years and beyond, I think we'll see the average size goes down and average speed goes up. And I don't think we're ever going to go backwards from there once that happens.

There will always be room for bigger guys who are only "average" skaters, but majority of rosters will be made up of guys who can really skate, whether they're > or < 6 feet.

I also think we're going to see a permanent change of offense being initiated by the defense. This is why a guy who can skate like the wind and add lots of offense like Mintyukov would be a guy to drool over at #9. One Dman who can really push offense on each pair, I think that's what we're going to see down the road.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Any guesses on the FA contract KA mentioned they are talking about ?

Quick was mentioned on wgr as one possibility with LA but I have to think he has a no trade list

 

[Der Jaeger]

I disagree. I've said this in the draft thread: I think what we're seeing with the Avs is a glimpse of the future. We saw it with PIT in '16 and '17 when they won, and we're seeing it again with COL now.

The issue is the NHL and youth/junior teams for years have prioritized size -- and that is why there isn't enough talent with speed to go around to allow all teams play this way. We've started to see that change in recent years, with more young kids who are highly skilled, but may lack ideal size, get more opportunity. But the full effect of that won't be seen until the kids growing up today who are now getting more chances get older and climb up the ranks.

So it will take some time for that next wave & talent pool to arrive, but by the time they do hit NHL in the next 3-5 years and beyond, I think we'll see the average size goes down and average speed goes up. And I don't think we're ever going to go backwards from there once that happens.

There will always be room for bigger guys who are only "average" skaters, but majority of rosters will be made up of guys who can really skate, whether they're > or < 6 feet.

I also think we're going to see a permanent change of offense being initiated by the defense. This is why a guy who can skate like the wind and add lots of offense like Mintyukov would be a guy to drool over at #9. One Dman who can really push offense on each pair, I think that's what we're going to see down the road.

I'm seeing this right now in youth hockey. Refs are calling games very tight. Bigger players who used to be able to muscle their way through games are getting called for penalties now. The smaller, faster teams are doing well.

 

[jmelm]

I don't either. While he's a good fit, the Sabres need to make their picks and add to the group they have. Once the team is in a position where they're within striking distance of a longer playoff run, then they should make this type of trade.

With the right moves, they'll be in striking distance within 1-2 years. Marino is young enough to be part of this group for many years. He's the same age as Thompson. But it's not "urgent" for us to do now. It really depends what all the other moves they do or don't make this summer.

 

[Jacob582]

I really recommend listening to this. I think Howard & Jeremy did a good job of asking fairly tough questions

Adams response at 13:30 was interesting. The most stuttering I've heard from him. He was asked about not making the team better through trade or free agency

Sure sounds like he is in contact negotiations with Craig Anderson to included games played bonus so he is payed little if he can only play a little part of the season and more if his body holds up.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Adams response at 13:30 was interesting. The most stuttering I've heard from him. He was asked about not making the team better through trade or free agency

Sure sounds like he is in contact negotiations with Craig Anderson to included games played bonus so he is payed little if he can only play a little part of the season and more if his body holds up.

I agree, and how Howard worded/asked the question was some of the most pointed I've ever heard him (besides his rants). He usually throws out softies during interviews.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I've mostly been giving Adams the benefit of the doubt on much of what he's doing and his vision for the team long term. That said this is just not acceptable to me:



What internal solutions in net? They have 1 goalie who is an RFA and that's it. You have 2 who are back in college for another season and any expectation of them playing a role in less than 2 - 3 years is foolish. Even when one of them makes it to the NHL full time it could still be a couple of years before they are ready to become the starter. Otherwise you could end up with the Swayman/Ullmark scenario Boston has which in my opinion is a pretty damn good problem to have. Goalies are not hard to trade, they are constantly in demand unless they are Mrazek.

Get a starting goalie, who cares if it's for 4 or 5 years. Make the kids earn their damn jobs.

Agreed. Very concerning wording from Adams.

I would also vomit if Anderson is back without an elite #1 who can handle a STRONG majority of the games. Anderson as a 1B is not ideal, and that's putting it lightly. He should be a legit backup who doesn't see more than 20 games at this point in his career, and even then I wouldn't want him back.

When the goaltending was adequate- the team was competitive. Goaltending should be priority #1 for Adams. Don't half ass this approach!

 

[Ace]

The only scenario where Anderson is an acceptable re-signing is if UPL was coming off of a vezina campaign. And even then it’s weak.

UPL is not coming off of a vezina campaign

 

[jmelm]

Pham/wgr: I still think Olofsson might get traded. I don't think the Sabres want to go to arbitration with him.

I would be concerned if their issue was committing to a 4 or 5 year deal at a reasonable cap hit for VO. He's a multiple time 20 goal scorer now, and put up 49 points while dealing with an injury and playing essentially 3rd line minutes. Competitive teams need that kind of scoring depth. If in 3 or 4 years they find themselves in a position where they can no longer afford him then he very likely would have value to another team since the league should be caught up by then and see more significant cap increases.

I don't think the issue is being willing or unwilling to commit to VO in a vacuum (or simply to avoid arbitration). If he's the best winger to spend that money on, the Sabres will gladly do it. However, if they would rather spend that money on Copp/Paul/Burakovsky (each of whom are better than VO to varying degrees or in different ways, IMO), I could see them wanting to sign one of those guys to similar term and money and trading VO.

Those kind of moves are smart asset management: get a superior players for free (UFA, no cost in trade assets) for the same money, and then get assets in return for the inferior player. The first example I remember of this in the cap era is when Detroit let go of a VERY popular player in Mathieu Schneider so they could sign Brian Rafalski.

So IMO, we wouldn't move VO unless we signed one of those other guys first.

More likely he'd be looking for 2 years at that cap hit. I doubt he would suddenly decide he wants to sign long term in Buffalo versus going UFA in 2 years. Reports are that he wants to play in a major market.

Yes, I was just giving yet another reason besides trade asset costs for why I don't want PLD.

 

[jmelm]

RE: Dreger and forwards

Could we be wrong to think that KA is not willing to change the makeup of the team through trades this summer?

I think Adams is more than willing to change out some pieces on the periphery, such as moving out VO for one of Copp/Paul/Burakovsky, or even signing one of those guys in addition to keeping VO at least until the deadline.

I also think we should be looking to add in the bottom 6. Tyler Motte is a guy I've mentioned a bunch. Deslauriers is another one.

As far as Adams comments on Anderson & goalies, it could just be a case of him not tipping his hand so he doesn't appear too desperate in terms of finding a goalie, since that would only hurt him in UFA or trade negotiations.

 

[Jacob582]

I think Adams sees VO as replaceable with Quinn.

 

[Fjordsen]

You're mixing 2 different things. Unless Jiricek or Nemec falls, BPA at #9 and likely #16 will not be a RHD.

Sepearately, yes, posititional necessity matters but you don't necessarily accomplish that solely through the draft, or through the 1st round of the draft (or at least #9 or #16). In the range of #28 and #41 (or in between those 2 if we want to move up from #41), there are a bunch of RD who should be available. Some others in the 3rd round as well that we know of.

Well we'll see soon, I like a lot of RDs in this draft,