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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt VIII: Spring approaches and less (fewer) things are happening

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canucksfan

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Hoverhand said:
They ran a disgustingly low payroll for 3 seasons, signed the biggest free agent, and still aren't close to the payroll they had 6 years ago.

Fans have every right to want another big fish after getting Springer because they sure as shit have been saving up for it. I get not wanting to give Bauer 40 million, all we're asking for is to call Cincinnati or Chicago and up your bid for one of their pitchers.

We're a big market fanbase way under our spending power with a truckload of infield prospects, there's just zero excuse to go into a contending season with a rotation of this quality.

EDIT: We all know the old saying "You can't make the playoffs in April but you can miss them." I dont think it's smart to wait and go into the season with these question marks.
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It's not so easy. There is no one currently that is a free agent that would be a noticeable addition. Furthermore, Walker wants a multi-year deal which I wouldn't give him at all. He has been injured a lot and is a number 4 starter at best.

Trade is the only option to acquire a pitcher that moves the needle a lot. We are not sure what the Reds are asking for Gray or the Cubs are asking for Hendricks. If they are asking for Groshans or even Moreno I would definitely pass. Even if they are asking for a reasonable piece, as I have stated previously, I would much rather give up more prospects or better prospects for a better pitcher that is younger.

I would rather them be patient instead of rushing things and be saddled with a declining pitcher that is taking up salary.
 
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Hoverhand

Hoverhand

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canucksfan said:
It's not so easy. There is no one currently that is a free agent that would be a noticeable addition. Furthermore, Walker wants a multi-year deal which I wouldn't give him at all. He has been injured a lot and is a number 4 starter at best.

Trade is the only option to acquire a pitcher that moves the needle a lot. We are not sure what the Reds are asking for Gray or the Cubs are asking for Hendricks. If they are asking for Groshans or even Moreno I would definitely pass. Even if they are asking for a reasonable piece, as I have stated previously, I would much rather give up more prospects or better prospects for a better pitcher that is younger.

I would rather them be patient instead of rushing things and be saddled with a declining pitcher that is taking up salary.
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With the catching pipeline the Jays have coupled with the substantial amount of salary room they have in the next 4 years. I think it'd be incredibly unwise to reject a Hendricks for Moreno deal.

Hendricks has 3 years left at 14 aav with a 1.5 million buyout in 2024. He wouldn't hurt us financially whatsoever. I'm content betting on one of Kirk, Jansen, or Adams to materialize into a productive starting catcher if it means we get two 3 ERA seasons out of Hendricks.

I can understand not wanting to give up Groshans in a Hendricks deal, I would be content dealing Martinez/Moreno though.
 
BlueForever75

BlueForever75

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Hoverhand said:
With the catching pipeline the Jays have coupled with the substantial amount of salary room they have in the next 4 years. I think it'd be incredibly unwise to reject a Hendricks for Moreno deal.

Hendricks has 3 years left at 14 aav with a 1.5 million buyout in 2024. He wouldn't hurt us financially whatsoever. I'm content betting on one of Kirk, Jansen, or Adams to materialize into a productive starting catcher if it means we get two 3 ERA seasons out of Hendricks.

I can understand not wanting to give up Groshans in a Hendricks deal, I would be content dealing Martinez/Moreno though.
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I agree with being ok to give up Moreno in a deal for Hendricks but I would be more inclined to build around Riley Adams instead. He is still a top 30 prospect catcher in the Jays organization and he with Martinez should be able to get the deal done while keeping Moreno/Kirk as your future catchers unless someone like Jansen breaks out and becomes who everyone expects him to become.
 
BlueForever75

BlueForever75

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I think that it would be wise for the remaining starting pitchers to sign with someone soon since camps opened today.

My guess is that Walker signs with someone before the end of this week. Im hoping that Jays step up and get him as he would put the Jays in a better spot.

What do you all think he will sign for? 1yr, 2yr deals?

Im hoping for a 2yr deal with a club option for a 3rd. If someone like Sanchez can get a 1yr 4 million guaranteed contract. For doing nothing. Walker can easily secured 8 million per like we did with Ray.

I would offer him 2yr/16 million contract with club option for a 3rd year at 1o million with 2 million buyout.

Thoughts
 

Ale Brew

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phillipmike said:


Well that is unforunate, Jays must have not liked his medicals.
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Or possibly remained in contact throughout as he was a possibility for them. Perhaps after spending the $18M on Semien they were no longer interested in his price range.

Hope you are right and they still have some budget left for starting pitching, even if it’s an in season add.
 
Hoverhand

Hoverhand

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Ale Brew said:
Or possibly remained in contact throughout as he was a possibility for them. Perhaps after spending the $18M on Semien they were no longer interested in his price range.

Hope you are right and they still have some budget left for starting pitching, even if it’s an in season add.
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Nicholson-Smith and Mitchell have only speculated thus far that they've hit their internal cap, until we get something more concrete from them saying that Rogers is kneecapping them at 130 then I don't know what to think.

Medicals is the only (good) explanation for Paxton. Matz and Phelps make up roughly 3/4ths of what Paxton is going to make this year, there were no financial restrictions stopping this from happening. My guess is they liked Matz as a project better than rehabbing Paxton's arm.
 
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TopChedder

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Getting sick and tired of some of our analysts talking like the Jay's are "tapped out" lol we have the second wealthiest owner in baseball and a covid proof business.

It's more like we are waiting on next years free agent class, see how our prospects keep maturing, plus deadline deals.

This notion that we can't spend when we are like 70 million away from the tax threshold is silly.

I am a tad disappointed that we didn't address pitching more during this offseason.
 
metafour

metafour

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TopChedder said:
Getting sick and tired of some of our analysts talking like the Jay's are "tapped out" lol we have the second wealthiest owner in baseball and a covid proof business.

It's more like we are waiting on next years free agent class, see how our prospects keep maturing, plus deadline deals.

This notion that we can't spend when we are like 70 million away from the tax threshold is silly.

I am a tad disappointed that we didn't address pitching more during this offseason.
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The team's payroll is limited to the amount that ownership is willing to spend. Rogers may be the "second wealthiest owner in baseball", but that doesn't mean that they're being run by baseball fanatics who's dream it is field a WS team. This is an asset to them.
 
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Discoverer

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TopChedder said:
Getting sick and tired of some of our analysts talking like the Jay's are "tapped out" lol we have the second wealthiest owner in baseball and a covid proof business.

It's more like we are waiting on next years free agent class, see how our prospects keep maturing, plus deadline deals.

This notion that we can't spend when we are like 70 million away from the tax threshold is silly.

I am a tad disappointed that we didn't address pitching more during this offseason.
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It's not about whether they can spend - they obviously can - it's about whether they will spend.

Rogers has never spent anywhere close to the Luxury Tax, so there's going to be an arbitrary point at which management really is "tapped out". I don't buy the argument that they're at that point now because the evidence to this point is basically "They didn't sign Marwin Gonzalez or James Paxton so they must not have any money left" and that makes no sense. But there will be a point at which they can't spend anymore. That's how it's always been with Rogers.
 
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TopChedder

TopChedder

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metafour said:
The team's payroll is limited to the amount that ownership is willing to spend. Rogers may be the "second wealthiest owner in baseball", but that doesn't mean that they're being run by baseball fanatics who's dream it is field a WS team. This is an asset to them.
Click to expand...

As an accountant I agree with asset management but they were SO CLOSE to having a perfect offseason.

But in saying that both the owner and team management know a hell of a lot more than me and I am sure they are bullish on many of our players in camp, and will make trades if needed for pitching help.
 
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Hoverhand

Hoverhand

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metafour said:
The team's payroll is limited to the amount that ownership is willing to spend. Rogers may be the "second wealthiest owner in baseball", but that doesn't mean that they're being run by baseball fanatics who's dream it is field a WS team. This is an asset to them.
Click to expand...

The frustrating aspect of this remains that the Jays are profitable enough franchise that Rogers could make them a luxury tax team and be perfectly fine.

They won't because they know their margins might be slightly thicker by cheaping out but we don't have to make excuses for them. (I think there are also serious errors they made over the last few years with their business model but that's a conversation for another day)
 
phillipmike

phillipmike

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Spring Begins With High Expectations | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

Ben Nicholson-Smith said don’t hold your breath on an Odorizzi or Walker signing.

The Jays want to sign them for one year and those guys want multiple years. They want flexibility next offseason. They want to be big players next offseason.

Says it’s likely the Jays like what they have to start the season and save the money they have and use it to trade for a better pitcher at the deadline.

Says they need to build these starters up. Even without injury or performance related issues, they expect the Jays to use 8-9+ starters before the deadline on purpose.

They want to give their depth pitchers like Hatch, Kay, Thornton and Zeuch a shot at pitching. If they are great they keep them, if they are good they use them as trade bait at the deadline.

They said there are teams like San Fransisco have no shot at the playoffs with the Dodgers and Padres in their division. So they might be motivated to trade earlier in the year.

They use Gausman as an example. The Jays went after him twice in the last two off-seasons and he wouldn’t take their money. So they would force him to play for us via trade.
 
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