Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season IV: Off-season progression! (Lockout over: Jays acquire Chapman for 4 prospects!)

[Scion]

Why are people assuming Vlad goes to 3B if we sign Freeman? My guess is that he would shift to DH.

 

[The Nemesis]

The lockout is going to be going on for the next 5 years and both will be free agents by the time it ends so you just might be onto something

Now that I think about it, we should probably trade Orelvis too. There's every possibility he could bust and if we flip him while his value is high we could get back even more prospects.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Now that I think about it, we should probably trade Orelvis too. There's every possibility he could bust and if we flip him while his value is high we could get back even more prospects.

Think we could flip some of those prospects for a really good young shortstop? Gonna need one of those when we trade Bichette

 

[Cor]

Why are people assuming Vlad goes to 3B if we sign Freeman? My guess is that he would shift to DH.

I would assume step 1 would be seeing if either can play 3B through any type of spring training and possibly month 1 of the season.

The Jays have mainly used the DH spot as a rotating rest day. This management has never really run much of a dedicated DH.

It’s likely they’d try Vlad and/or Freddie at 3B before making it a 1B/DH rotation

 

[The Nemesis]

Think we could flip some of those prospects for a really good young shortstop? Gonna need one of those when we trade Bichette

But why would you want to trade for a shortstop when you could have what's in the mystery box? Because the mystery box could be anything. It could even be a shortstop! And you know how much we'll need one of those.

 

[Canada4Gold]

But why would you want to trade for a shortstop when you could have what's in the mystery box? Because the mystery box could be anything. It could even be a shortstop! And you know how much we'll need one of those.

Can the mystery box be a shortstop and a pitcher? Is that against the rules? The Angels got one of those good deals in 1 of their mystery boxes so it should be allowed

 

[dredeye]

Why are people assuming Vlad goes to 3B if we sign Freeman? My guess is that he would shift to DH.

Like someone else said the Dh spot tends not to be a position we lock a player into. I would have no interest in turning vlad into a pure dh or some facsimile of one. I think 1B is ideal for him but if we add freeman 3b makes sense to try and get him back at. Being in better shape the hope would be that he could handle it better this time around. Let’s say for sake of argument they bring in freeman with the understanding that he’s going to be a full time DH I don’t love the idea of him making 20+ million for say four more years to occasionally play in the field. In very short order we are going to need money to lock in the younger core. I won’t be mad if we sign him however I think that money could be much better allocated elsewhere. I guess it would all depend on the term

 

[phillipmike]

 

[canucksfan]

 

[hockeywiz542]

Sides far apart after 6th straight day of MLB talks

JUPITER, Fla. -- With less than two days before Major League Baseball's deadline to reach a labor deal to salvage opening day on March 31 and the sides far apart, players were unsure whether they will break off talks.

Both sides made moves Saturday, but the union was upset with management's response. The union staff planned to discuss with players whether to meet Sunday or to head home.

Players lowered their proposal for the luxury tax by $2 million annually in each year from 2023-24, but the sides remain far apart. Owners responded by moving from $214 million to $215 million in 2023.

Teams still want to increase the base tax rate from 20% to 45%. They dropped their proposed second rate from 25% to 17%.

The union dropped to 35% from 75% for the percentage of players with two to three years of major league service who would become eligible for salary arbitration. MLB says it will not move from the current 22%.

Players also withdrew their proposal that would cut revenue sharing by $30 million annually but kept its plan to give small-market teams an incentive to spend. The union changed its proposal to having the incentive money come from central revenue, which it estimates would cost a large-market club no more than $1 million in a year.

MLB asked to tie an amateur draft lottery to expanding the playoffs from 10 to 14 teams.

The union also kept its proposal to limit optional assignments to five annually.

Teams added that a committee comprised of six management officials, two union and one umpire be allowed to make in-field rules changes with 45 days' notice. Currently, management can only change rules with union consent or unilaterally with one year notice.

Owners still are proposing an international draft, which the union opposes.

After holding just six negotiating sessions on central economics from the start of the lockout through Feb. 19, the sides met for the sixth straight day at Roger Dean Stadium, the vacant spring training home of the Miami Marlins and St. Louis Cardinals.

Mets pitcher Max Scherzer and shortstop Francisco Lindor, Yankees pitcher Gerrit Cole and free agent reliever Andrew Miller were among the players at the talks. Baseball's ninth work stoppage, its first since 1995, was in its 87th day.

The sides arrived at noon, an hour earlier than every previous session this year, then caucused for nearly 2 1/2 hours. The union held a Zoom session for its player representatives, about 30, which has been its deliberative method.

MLB has said that if there is not an agreement by the end of Monday, it would start canceling games because there will not be enough training time to play a full schedule.

After days of little progress, the sides neared agreement Friday on an amateur draft lottery during negotiations that included a surprise one-on-one meeting between Commissioner Rob Manfred and union head Tony Clark.

Players have not accepted Monday as a deadline and have suggested any missed games could be made up as part of doubleheaders, a method MLB said it will not agree to.

Once Monday passes, the length of the schedule would become yet another issue in the dispute along with possible lost pay and service time.

The union has told MLB if games are missed and salaries are lost, clubs should not expect players to agree to management's proposals to expand the postseason and to allow advertisements on uniforms and helmets.

 

[Dr.Funk]

So another year of KBO on ESPN?

 

[Anthrax442]

Sides far apart after 6th straight day of MLB talks

JUPITER, Fla. -- With less than two days before Major League Baseball's deadline to reach a labor deal to salvage opening day on March 31 and the sides far apart, players were unsure whether they will break off talks.

Both sides made moves Saturday, but the union was upset with management's response. The union staff planned to discuss with players whether to meet Sunday or to head home.

Players lowered their proposal for the luxury tax by $2 million annually in each year from 2023-24, but the sides remain far apart. Owners responded by moving from $214 million to $215 million in 2023.

Teams still want to increase the base tax rate from 20% to 45%. They dropped their proposed second rate from 25% to 17%.

The union dropped to 35% from 75% for the percentage of players with two to three years of major league service who would become eligible for salary arbitration. MLB says it will not move from the current 22%.

Players also withdrew their proposal that would cut revenue sharing by $30 million annually but kept its plan to give small-market teams an incentive to spend. The union changed its proposal to having the incentive money come from central revenue, which it estimates would cost a large-market club no more than $1 million in a year.

MLB asked to tie an amateur draft lottery to expanding the playoffs from 10 to 14 teams.

The union also kept its proposal to limit optional assignments to five annually.

Teams added that a committee comprised of six management officials, two union and one umpire be allowed to make in-field rules changes with 45 days' notice. Currently, management can only change rules with union consent or unilaterally with one year notice.

Owners still are proposing an international draft, which the union opposes.

After holding just six negotiating sessions on central economics from the start of the lockout through Feb. 19, the sides met for the sixth straight day at Roger Dean Stadium, the vacant spring training home of the Miami Marlins and St. Louis Cardinals.

Mets pitcher Max Scherzer and shortstop Francisco Lindor, Yankees pitcher Gerrit Cole and free agent reliever Andrew Miller were among the players at the talks. Baseball's ninth work stoppage, its first since 1995, was in its 87th day.

The sides arrived at noon, an hour earlier than every previous session this year, then caucused for nearly 2 1/2 hours. The union held a Zoom session for its player representatives, about 30, which has been its deliberative method.

MLB has said that if there is not an agreement by the end of Monday, it would start canceling games because there will not be enough training time to play a full schedule.

After days of little progress, the sides neared agreement Friday on an amateur draft lottery during negotiations that included a surprise one-on-one meeting between Commissioner Rob Manfred and union head Tony Clark.

Players have not accepted Monday as a deadline and have suggested any missed games could be made up as part of doubleheaders, a method MLB said it will not agree to.

Once Monday passes, the length of the schedule would become yet another issue in the dispute along with possible lost pay and service time.

The union has told MLB if games are missed and salaries are lost, clubs should not expect players to agree to management's proposals to expand the postseason and to allow advertisements on uniforms and helmets.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Hey now, that's 1 million bucks for 30 teams so really it's 30 million bucks. Then you realize that's 30 million bucks in for a 100% taxed threshold so really it's 60 million bucks. That's more than any single player makes it's a huge concession. The players should just concede everything else

 

[Hoverhand]

The union dropped to 35% from 75% for the percentage of players with two to three years of major league service who would become eligible for salary arbitration. MLB says it will not move from the current 22%.

My heart goes out to all the people who have been blaming "muh both sides" for this lockout. I cant imagine being that disgustingly wrong about something like this.

 

[phillipmike]

Shower time

 

[dredeye]

Sides far apart after 6th straight day of MLB talks

JUPITER, Fla. -- With less than two days before Major League Baseball's deadline to reach a labor deal to salvage opening day on March 31 and the sides far apart, players were unsure whether they will break off talks.

Both sides made moves Saturday, but the union was upset with management's response. The union staff planned to discuss with players whether to meet Sunday or to head home.

Players lowered their proposal for the luxury tax by $2 million annually in each year from 2023-24, but the sides remain far apart. Owners responded by moving from $214 million to $215 million in 2023.

Teams still want to increase the base tax rate from 20% to 45%. They dropped their proposed second rate from 25% to 17%.

The union dropped to 35% from 75% for the percentage of players with two to three years of major league service who would become eligible for salary arbitration. MLB says it will not move from the current 22%.

Players also withdrew their proposal that would cut revenue sharing by $30 million annually but kept its plan to give small-market teams an incentive to spend. The union changed its proposal to having the incentive money come from central revenue, which it estimates would cost a large-market club no more than $1 million in a year.

MLB asked to tie an amateur draft lottery to expanding the playoffs from 10 to 14 teams.

The union also kept its proposal to limit optional assignments to five annually.

Teams added that a committee comprised of six management officials, two union and one umpire be allowed to make in-field rules changes with 45 days' notice. Currently, management can only change rules with union consent or unilaterally with one year notice.

Owners still are proposing an international draft, which the union opposes.

After holding just six negotiating sessions on central economics from the start of the lockout through Feb. 19, the sides met for the sixth straight day at Roger Dean Stadium, the vacant spring training home of the Miami Marlins and St. Louis Cardinals.

Mets pitcher Max Scherzer and shortstop Francisco Lindor, Yankees pitcher Gerrit Cole and free agent reliever Andrew Miller were among the players at the talks. Baseball's ninth work stoppage, its first since 1995, was in its 87th day.

The sides arrived at noon, an hour earlier than every previous session this year, then caucused for nearly 2 1/2 hours. The union held a Zoom session for its player representatives, about 30, which has been its deliberative method.

MLB has said that if there is not an agreement by the end of Monday, it would start canceling games because there will not be enough training time to play a full schedule.

After days of little progress, the sides neared agreement Friday on an amateur draft lottery during negotiations that included a surprise one-on-one meeting between Commissioner Rob Manfred and union head Tony Clark.

Players have not accepted Monday as a deadline and have suggested any missed games could be made up as part of doubleheaders, a method MLB said it will not agree to.

Once Monday passes, the length of the schedule would become yet another issue in the dispute along with possible lost pay and service time.

The union has told MLB if games are missed and salaries are lost, clubs should not expect players to agree to management's proposals to expand the postseason and to allow advertisements on uniforms and helmets.

Why are the players opposed to an international draft? That kind of tells me lots of money is sneaking around behind closed doors and the owners want to clamp down on it. I think the dollars would work out better for international talent. Although they’d lose the ability to choose the team they sign with

I know other leagues do it but advertising on uniforms and helmets would be such a stain on the game.

 

[theaub]

My heart goes out to all the people who have been blaming "muh both sides" for this lockout. I cant imagine being that disgustingly wrong about something like this.

The same people who still think ticket prices are correlated with player salaries

 

[TML1967]

I would assume step 1 would be seeing if either can play 3B through any type of spring training and possibly month 1 of the season.

The Jays have mainly used the DH spot as a rotating rest day. This management has never really run much of a dedicated DH.

It’s likely they’d try Vlad and/or Freddie at 3B before making it a 1B/DH rotation

Another part of this is value. A guy who can hit like Freddie and Vlad that is a position player has more value long term. Vladdy is young enough you dont want to push him into being just a DH.

If the team flops for some reason in the next 2 or 3 years, having Freddie and Vlad playing adequately in the field makes their value a decent amount higher.

The real question is if they can handle the field well enough.

 

[Cor]

Shower time

please please please please

 

[Anthrax442]

please please please please

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Discoverer]

Why are the players opposed to an international draft? That kind of tells me lots of money is sneaking around behind closed doors and the owners want to clamp down on it. I think the dollars would work out better for international talent. Although they’d lose the ability to choose the team they sign with

I know other leagues do it but advertising on uniforms and helmets would be such a stain on the game.

The money teams are allowed to spend in the draft now is pretty tightly controlled in the same way it's controlled in the IFA market. So unless the owners are committing to spending significantly more money on international players than they currently do, there's literally no advantage to the players: like you said, they would give up the ability to choose where they sign in exchange for... absolutely nothing.

 

[The Nemesis]

Can the mystery box be a shortstop and a pitcher? Is that against the rules? The Angels got one of those good deals in 1 of their mystery boxes so it should be allowed

Yes, but only if it's Mike McCoy.

 

[Cor]

I do wonder, with the CBT seemingly the biggest hurdle, if we see the MLB make their first real concession tomorrow, in the hopes the players take it?

 

[Canada4Gold]

I don't believe that tomorrow is a firm deadline. I believe MLB wants to make it look like it is so the players hopefully concede more as it approaches, which the owners know they don't have to concede as much as it's a false deadline. They'd still have a month before the regular season starts. Reasonably they could get by with a 3 week spring training. Pitchers go every 5 days, starting at 2 innings they need 4 appearances to build up to 5 innings. They could get by with 20 days of spring training. You're telling me if they come to an agreement on Wednesday that it's too late to make it work?

Maybe I'm just optimistic