Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season IV: Off-season progression! (Lockout over: Jays acquire Chapman for 4 prospects!)

[phillipmike]

Toronto Blue Jays Top 34 Prospects

The José Berríos trade knocked Toronto’s system down a few rungs, but there’s still plenty of potential star power here.

blogs.fangraphs.com

3. Gunnar Hoglund
10. Zach Logue
16. Kevin Smith
26. Kirby Snead

All gone

FG: Couldn't have made this trade yesterday?

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Kurtz]

Toronto Blue Jays Top 34 Prospects

The José Berríos trade knocked Toronto’s system down a few rungs, but there’s still plenty of potential star power here.

blogs.fangraphs.com

3. Gunnar Hoglund
10. Zach Logue
16. Kevin Smith
26. Kirby Snead

All gone

FG: Couldn't have made this trade yesterday?

Interesting how different these rankings are from Keith Law's, who doesn't have Logue in our top 20, but put Kevin Smith 3rd and Hoglund 5th.

 

[thehockeysong]

Toronto Blue Jays Top 34 Prospects

The José Berríos trade knocked Toronto’s system down a few rungs, but there’s still plenty of potential star power here.

blogs.fangraphs.com

3. Gunnar Hoglund
10. Zach Logue
16. Kevin Smith
26. Kirby Snead

All gone

FG: Couldn't have made this trade yesterday?

Looking at their Yankees prospect grades - they sure are excited about that system.

 

[phillipmike]

Interesting how different these rankings are from Keith Law's, who doesn't have Logue in our top 20, but put Kevin Smith 3rd and Hoglund 5th.

Only way to read this is to amalgamate the lists;

5. Hoglund
16. Smith
NR. Logue
NR. Snead

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Only one off day in the first 4.5 weeks of the season.

One of the beauties of baseball is being guaranteed a game pretty much every night!

 

[rojac]

Yup. Orioles series moved to Oct 2-4. TB series becomes double-headers on July 2 and Sept. 13 and a game on previous off-day Sept. 15.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Looking at their Yankees prospect grades - they sure are excited about that system.

I have been following baseball for as long as I can remember. Yankees farm system getting helium that other teams don't has been a thing forever. That said they do have some pretty good prospects.

 

[weems]

We still most likely have 1 trade to make sometime this season when our catching situation becomes more clear.

How soon does Moreno look ready?
Does Kirk suprise and become the everyday C?
Does Jansen finally put it together and become a top 5-10 C?

I think aquiring one more decent BP arm and then saving assets to make a mid season move if necessary is a smart play.

 

[Avilaj07]

Only way I'm including Martinez in a trade for Ramirez is if Grichuk is also going the other way.

 

[phillipmike]

On Overdrive, Scotty Mitchell said "dont count anything out" in terms of next moves when Hayes asked him about a big signing or another blockbuster trade.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yup. Orioles series moved to Oct 2-4. TB series becomes double-headers on July 2 and Sept. 13 and a game on previous off-day Sept. 15.

Wow , never seen that before. An actually scheduled double header. Interesting.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Don’t like this. Remember 2013 when so many “experts” picked the Jays to win the AL East? We know how that turned out lol.

 

[Kurtz]

I have been following baseball for as long as I can remember. Yankees farm system getting helium that other teams don't has been a thing forever. That said they do have some pretty good prospects.

So true - I've lost count of the number of Yankee prospects hyped as future hall of famers that turned bust. Jesus Montero, Chance Adams, Hughes, Joba, Sanchez, etc.

 

[rojac]

Wow , never seen that before. An actually scheduled double header. Interesting.

Well, only scheduled because of having to move the first two series. But there was a time, when scheduled double-headers were not unusual.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Well, only scheduled because of having to move the first two series. But there was a time, when scheduled double-headers were not unusual.

Yea, I realize that. I guess scheduled double headers were before my time.

 

[The Nemesis]

Toronto Blue Jays Top 34 Prospects

The José Berríos trade knocked Toronto’s system down a few rungs, but there’s still plenty of potential star power here.

blogs.fangraphs.com

3. Gunnar Hoglund
10. Zach Logue
16. Kevin Smith
26. Kirby Snead

All gone

FG: Couldn't have made this trade yesterday?

that FG list is from January. It just got bumped to the front page on Fangraphs because its hit count would've gone through the roof with A's fans checking out the prospects they've acquired for Chapman.

EDIT: also I'll be switching to a new thread shortly. Just a heads up. Let's say that the new thread is going up in about 10 minutes. So if you've got something you want to say, do it now or hold off for the new thread.

 

[phillipmike]

Oakland Capitulates and Toronto Capitalizes in Chapman-For-Prospects Swap

While Oakland tears down its current crop of stars, Toronto completes an infield that’s the class of the majors.

blogs.fangraphs.com

While the strikeout concerns are legitimate, Toronto still made a huge upgrade for the next two years, and potentially for more if Chapman signs an extension. Getting above-average on-base production and 30 homers out of your third baseman is a bargain most teams would accept even if you pay a cost in strikeouts, and Chapman adds the best defense in baseball to the package. With him in tow, we project Toronto for the third-most WAR from position players, up from fifth before they made the trade.

In other words, the Blue Jays are at the point of the win curve where additional help matters most. With so many evenly-matched teams at the top of the AL, every win could matter. The Blue Jays just found a way to add roughly three of them. The other AL contenders are surely furious at Toronto’s good fortune.

The return from Toronto makes me like this tactic even less from Oakland.

All four prospects who the A’s received are interesting, but none of them are can’t-miss names. There’s plenty of near-majors competence here, but little upside, unlike the return that Olson fetched. If you asked me to comb Toronto’s system for Oakland-like players, I might end up with these four names, but I’d also keep adding more names before getting to a package that I thought was fair in exchange for Chapman.

This trade is a tale of two franchises headed in opposite directions. The Jays are on the rise, and they’re willing to move prospects to keep that rise going. They’re also conserving their best prospects – Gabriel Moreno, Orelvis Martinez, and graduate Alejandro Kirk are all staying put. They’ll need to prove they can do the things Oakland’s front office does so well – supplement the margins of the roster year after year to buttress their stars – but they’ve set up an excellent core to build around.

 

[Bjindaho]

that FG list is from January. It just got bumped to the front page on Fangraphs because its hit count would've gone through the roof with A's fans checking out the prospects they've acquired for Chapman.

EDIT: also I'll be switching to a new thread shortly. Just a heads up. Let's say that the new thread is going up in about 10 minutes. So if you've got something you want to say, do it now or hold off for the new thread.

Also, there's a wonderful caveat on every published list.

They are all ranking Tiedemann based on him throwing 92-93 (but he now throws 96-97 and can touch 98).

 

[TGB]

Chapman is just a great overall get. He's not expensive, he has a chance to do what Donaldson did, his defense will still be valuable even if he doesn't hit, he's well worth resigning at the end of his contract if things go well because he will only be 30 years old, and if things don't go well, no biggie. By then you've got other interesting prospects that will be ready to go.

How soon does Moreno look ready?
Does Kirk suprise and become the everyday C?

It's easy to forget Moreno only had like 100 at bats last year. They were a MONSTER 100 at bats, sure, but it's not that unusual to see players dominate the minors for a spell and generate ridiculous numbers only for them to level off over the season. Looks like Moreno can still use a proper tour through AAA just to be sure.

I mean, unless you can pry a good pitcher from the Marlins with Kirk. I suspect Kirk will end up being more like the every day DH, but we have to be careful there: he's SLOW, so unless he's hitting home runs or a crazy high average with lots of extra base hits, he could end up being a double play machine.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Honestly thought after that last era that it would be awhile before the Jays could field a team with that potential on both sides of the field.

Amazing build in a few short years

 

[Bjindaho]

It's easy to forget Moreno only had like 100 at bats last year. They were a MONSTER 100 at bats, sure, but it's not that unusual to see players dominate the minors for a spell and generate ridiculous numbers only for them to level off over the season. Looks like Moreno can still use a proper tour through AAA just to be sure.

I mean, unless you can pry a good pitcher from the Marlins with Kirk. I suspect Kirk will end up being more like the every day DH, but we have to be careful there: he's SLOW, so unless he's hitting home runs or a crazy high average with lots of extra base hits, he could end up being a double play machine.

Also, there is no track record of a catcher with Kirk's build, so there will always be a fear that he might have to give up catching at some point.