Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season IV: Off-season progression! (Lockout over: Jays acquire Chapman for 4 prospects!)

[theaub]

Votto interest comes down to whether or not you believe that someone can reinvent their swing at 38. The peripherals all line up with his resurgence in 2021.

 

[Bjindaho]

Really? Why? I'm not sure he adds anything. And he makes $25M in each of 22 and 23 with a $20M option for 2024 that can be bought out for $7M.

Not sure that I'd pay that for someone who would likely just be a DH.

The fact that he's from Toronto adds almost no value for me.

He finished 73rd in oWar last year at 3.2 (that includes a positional adjustment).

In wRc+, he was 12th.

 

[phillipmike]

Can't wait to see who the A's next third baseman is that we can scab in a few years.

Might be Kevin Smith

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[phillipmike]

Do we still get comp picks for Ray and Semien?

Yes. 2 picks after the 2nd round. Probably in the 60s

 

[Morgs]

I was a bit lukewarm on a Votto trade but considering how he basically stopped short of saying he wanted out and how the Reds are trading more valuable players for nothing...I might be more interested.

They gave up a legitimate all-star in Winker to unload a contract. You might be able to get Votto for literally nothing.

But the last thing you want is that Votto contract if he isn't what he was last season anymore.

Grichuk would HAVE to be included, and even then you're still adding $30M to the payroll the next two years for an almost 40 year old 1B/DH and at minimum 7M in the 3rd year. I'd personally pass unless Cincy is willing to take on some of his contract and still ask for almost nothing.

It's probably why he hasn't been traded, it doesn't make sense to trade their franchise icon for basically nothing and take on a bunch of salary in the process.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Always the victim

 

[inthe6ix]

 

[Bjindaho]

But the last thing you want is that Votto contract if he isn't what he was last season anymore.

Grichuk would HAVE to be included, and even then you're still adding $30M to the payroll the next two years for an almost 40 year old 1B/DH and at minimum 7M in the 3rd year. I'd personally pass unless Cincy is willing to take on some of his contract and still ask for almost nothing.

It's probably why he hasn't been traded, it doesn't make sense to trade their franchise icon for basically nothing and take on a bunch of salary in the process.

I think that there's a level of "fit" that justifies the risk.

Keep in mind that there is a level of lineup protection here that he's never seen.

 

[kb]

But the last thing you want is that Votto contract if he isn't what he was last season anymore.

Grichuk would HAVE to be included, and even then you're still adding $30M to the payroll the next two years for an almost 40 year old 1B/DH and at minimum 7M in the 3rd year. I'd personally pass unless Cincy is willing to take on some of his contract and still ask for almost nothing.

It's probably why he hasn't been traded, it doesn't make sense to trade their franchise icon for basically nothing and take on a bunch of salary in the process.

I'd look it it like an opportunity for him to have the protection he rarely had, and yes - send Grichuk the other way along with Spencer Horwitz, who is blocked here.

Dead cat bounce like Winfield did here in 92. But I still think his eye and his bat will play here even at his age.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Votto's underlying numbers don't show any signs of decline either. He had a tough 2020 by his standards but that could just be attributed to a small sample size alone.

There's other options you ideally want to fill the lineup but he could be a good plan B.

 

[phillipmike]

Reds: Lets get rid of 6 WAR Wade Miley for nothing via waivers because he makes $10M.

Also the Reds: Lets trade a pen arm with control and potential for 1 WAR Mike Minor who makes $10M and is guaranteed $11M with his 2023 buyout of $1M to forgo his $13M option.



Edit: Royals will pay the $1M buyout. So $10M out with Miley and $10M in with Minor.

 

[kb]

Reds: Lets get rid of 6 WAR Wade Miley for nothing via waivers because he makes $10M.

Also the Reds: Lets trade a pen arm with control and potential for 1 WAR Mike Minor who makes $10M and is guaranteed $11M with his 2023 buyout of $1M to forgo his $13M option.



Edit: Royals will pay the $1M buyout. So $10M out with Miley and $10M in with Minor.

Guess it depends on how much "cash considerations" is involved. lol

 

[Bjindaho]

Cincy just got Minor and his 10M contract. Given their cutting, a Votto trade would help balance that.

 

[rojac]

I'd look it it like an opportunity for him to have the protection he rarely had, and yes - send Grichuk the other way along with Spencer Horwitz, who is blocked here.

Dead cat bounce like Winfield did here in 92. But I still think his eye and his bat will play here even at his age.

Does he give you much more than rotating players the DH? Does he give you $25M worth of improvement? Maybe. I'm not sure. I;m not particularly fond of full-time DHs.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Lol Garrett and Baez in the same division again.

I choose to believe this is why the Reds made that deal. Because the stats show this is kind of a trash for trash trade otherwise.

I would be flushing my cap down the shitter if I were a Reds fan rn.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TGB]

Another nice thing about the Chapman trade is it just made a bunch of high level 3b/fringe SS prospects redundant, so there is more capital for future trades. Keep the really young prospects, trade the rest. Keep upgrading that bullpen, maybe replace some of the lost pitching prospects. We're definitely way too light on outfield prospects. Our entire outfield save Springer will see their contracts expire all at the same time.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Mr cash must have took the proverbial gulp hearing the news that he wont have a automatic runner in the 10th and he wont be able to bunt to third against the jays and chapman anymore

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Cincy would have to eat quite a bit of that contract to have me interested. Votto is almost 40 and is basically a DH at this point. It doesn't make sense for the Jay's unless he's basically being gifted to us. As sweet as it would be to have a hometown guy win a WS here, I'd rather go after someone who can play a position.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Atkins really just needs to say f*** this division and land Ramirez .. obviously cost is a factor though

 

[Kurtz]

I always thought 'Shatkins' was an amalgamation of Shapiro and Atkins.

It was, but it was used in a derisive manner.

And frankly, it was very well deserved at the time. Their first 2 years here were trash. Their free agent signings were awful, the trades were bad (got basically nothing for Happ, Donaldson, and Osuna, although bad luck on the last 2). The Liriano series of deals were the lone gem during the early part of their tenure. Add on the fact that they chased AA out of town, and folks were right to be dissapointed.

But they have absolutely been nailing it the last 2 years.

 

[Woodman19]

It was, but it was used in a derisive manner.

And frankly, it was very well deserved at the time. Their first 2 years here were trash. Their free agent signings were awful, the trades were bad (got basically nothing for Happ, Donaldson, and Osuna, although bad luck on the last 2). The Liriano series of deals were the lone gem during the early part of their tenure. Add on the fact that they chased AA out of town, and folks were right to be dissapointed.

But they have absolutely been nailing it the last 2 years.

I wouldn't say it was trash, it was pretty clear to anyone who was looking that they knew the team was old and needed to be rebuilt and just went after short term (and thus less impactful) players in FA to try to keep that 2015 window open longer. The fact they didnt throw more out the door to extend that window and ultimately hold on to many of the pieces we have now as part of our core is a testament to the discipline they had in following their plan. The issue is the people who think you can turn an organization around on a dime without missing a beat with success who set themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Canada4Gold]

It was, but it was used in a derisive manner.

And frankly, it was very well deserved at the time. Their first 2 years here were trash. Their free agent signings were awful, the trades were bad (got basically nothing for Happ, Donaldson, and Osuna, although bad luck on the last 2). The Liriano series of deals were the lone gem during the early part of their tenure. Add on the fact that they chased AA out of town, and folks were right to be dissapointed.

But they have absolutely been nailing it the last 2 years.

Perhaps on the major league end of things, but the things they did in the draft and IFA is a huge reason why we're here today. Bo, Cavan, Nate, Smith in the draft. Moreno, Martinez, Kirk in IFA. Player development is harder to quantify but I would suspect they've have a huge impact on that in their first 2 seasons as well

 

[Blitzkrug]

Since lineup balance is a thing they still need there might be a couple lower salary guys they can sign to fill that hole.

Joc Pederson is a lefty bat. Can he play defense? No. Can he get on base? Not particularly. Can he hit dingers? You bet your ass he can!