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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

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Discoverer said:
They still need to DFA someone like that to make room for Belt, so it'll probably end up being both. Thompson isn't very good, but he does improves the starting depth, and right now he'll be something like 8th on the depth chart.
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Oh I get that. I can't see him seeing MLB action unless the season goes down the toilet, and at that point they may as well try some of the younger guys like Francis, Zulueta, etc. to see if they have a future anyway. Just seems like a move to make a move. But I could be wrong, and I will be the first to admit it if I am.

I wonder if he will be DFA'd for Belt. :sarcasm:
 
Not a bad gamble on Thompson.

Was a big Chavez Young fan but he is turning 26 next year and had .681 OPS in AAA. So nothing for a guy who was a decent piece in the Jacob Stallings deal last year and had 1.3 fWAR in 2021. Weird Pittsburgh would give up on him so soon.

www.mlb.com

Bucs get 3 players from Miami for Stallings

The Pirates acquired three players from the Marlins for Jacob Stallings, one of their most respected clubhouse leaders, on Monday. The haul includes two of the Marlins’ Top 30 Prospects at the time of the trade in right-hander Kyle Nicolas (No. 16) and outfielder Connor Scott (No. 23), alongside...
www.mlb.com www.mlb.com

Thompson is the only player in the Pirates’ return package with any Major League experience. The 28-year-old had a 3.24 ERA in 75 innings for the Marlins in his rookie season in 2021, with fairly even ERA splits between 14 starts (3.25) and 12 relief appearances (3.18). He struck out a career-high 11 batters on June 26 against the Nationals, though his strikeout rate is under one per inning (7.9 K/9).

“Our group was high on him,” Cherington said, “and it’s an opportunity to add someone we think can be part of our rotation mix in 2022 and, obviously, given where he is in his career, has a chance to be here for a while.”
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You guys are right if this is just a AAA depth move.

My main issue is this. It does nothing for the #5 spot in the rotation. Now if he is to be the #7/8 in the depth? On that I agree.....sure, why not? I guess they must see something they like, because to me it seems like they are taking a flyer on another Deck McGuire or TJ Zeuch type.

I just hope there is more to come to raise the floor of the rotation. Because as it stands now, they are one top 3 injury away from having both White and Kikuchi in the rotation, along with Berrios. Not sure anyone would be happy or comfortable with that - even if Berrios regains his prior form.

If Kikuchi, White, and Berrios have a repeat of their 2022 performances with the Jays, things could go sideways in a big hurry because it might cause the Jays to have to make a desperation trade, or force them to promote Tiedemann prematurely to the majors .

They will put that newly revamped defense to the test for sure.
 
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kb said:
You guys are right if this is just a AAA depth move.

My main issue is this. It does nothing for the #5 spot in the rotation. Now if he is to be the #8/9 in the depth? On that I agree.....sure, why not? I guess they must see something they like, because it seems like they are taking a flyer on another Deck McGuire or TJ Zeuch type.

I just hope there is more to come to raise the floor of the rotation. Because as it stands now, they are one top 3 injury away from having both White and Kikuchi in the rotation, along with Berrios. Not sure anyone would be happy or comfortable with that - even if Berrios regains his prior form.

If Kikuchi, White, and Berrios have a repeat of their 2022 performances with the Jays, things could go sideways in a big hurry because it might cause the Jays to have to make a desperation trade, or force them to promote Tiedemann prematurely to the majors .

They will put that newly revamped defense to the test for sure.
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I'm actually pretty comfortable with the pitching staff as a whole right now. Obviously an upgrade would be nice, but the offense and defense both look great, the top four in the rotation and the bullpen look really strong... having a couple questionmarks battling for the 5th spot in the rotation and a low-leverage bullpen spot seems fine to me. Those roles wouldn't be that hard to fill mid-season if needed.
 
It also speaks to what they might be doing at the AAA level.

Pearson
Zulueta
Thompson
Hatch
Hutchison
Lawrence
Francis

Plus AA graduates (Robbins, Fraze, Schultz?), they might be looking at putting Pearson/Zulu/Hatch in the pen?
 
kb said:
You guys are right if this is just a AAA depth move.

My main issue is this. It does nothing for the #5 spot in the rotation. Now if he is to be the #8/9 in the depth? On that I agree.....sure, why not? I guess they must see something they like, because it seems like they are taking a flyer on another Deck McGuire or TJ Zeuch type.

I just hope there is more to come to raise the floor of the rotation. Because as it stands now, they are one top 3 injury away from having both White and Kikuchi in the rotation, along with Berrios. Not sure anyone would be happy or comfortable with that - even if Berrios regains his prior form.

If Kikuchi, White, and Berrios have a repeat of their 2022 performances with the Jays, things could go sideways in a big hurry because it might cause the Jays to have to make a desperation trade, or force them to promote Tiedemann prematurely to the majors .

They will put that newly revamped defense to the test for sure.
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After a disastrous April where he got lit up 4 times:

107.1 Innings
4.53 ERA
4.59 FIP
4.34 xFIP

EDIT: Pressed enter too quickly

He's a very attractive #6 option, not an 8 or a 9. I'm curious exactly what their plan with him is as his cutter was a super effective pitch in 2021 while it got lit up in 2022. While his four seamer was used less in 2022 but became more effective than 2021. Seeing as his BB/9 was north of 3 last year, this seems like it is ripe for a Pete Walker pet project with some upside.

Chavez Young wasn't ever going to be a consistent major leaguer so I'm pretty happy with this move all and all
 
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kb said:
Well, he was DFA'd by the Pirates.

The Jays need to raise their floor, not lower it.


About the time one of your doomsday predictions comes true?

Something something frozen over?
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Too 300 hitters for a 235 guy
 
Discoverer said:
I'm actually pretty comfortable with the pitching staff as a whole right now. Obviously an upgrade would be nice, but the offense and defense both look great, the top four in the rotation and the bullpen look really strong... having a couple questionmarks battling for the 5th spot in the rotation and a low-leverage bullpen spot seems fine to me. Those roles wouldn't be that hard to fill mid-season if needed.
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Granted, as long as everyone stays 100% healthy, it's not a huge concern. One injury to Gausman, Manoah, or Bassitt changes things in a hurry.

Then they would have Berrios, White, and Kikuchi as their 3-4-5. IMO, that is far from ideal for a team going for it all.

Having said that, I do believe Berrios will be motivated to erase last season's results and will have a bounceback season. But if not (even if everyone is healthy), the team may have 2 of the 5 SP slots where they might consistently struggle to get innings from (and have long bullpen games), which will be an issue as the season drags on.

We will have to see as the offseason comes to a close and spring training comes. Less than a month until pitchers and catchers report - can't wait!!!
 
Merryweather being DFA'd is not a huge surprise. He likely wasn't going to make the team and would have been DFA'd in March anyway. Need the 40 man spot now so might as well do that now than someone else and have to do Merryweather later.

And with that none of the Julian's, Fernandez's are on the 40 man, and 2 of them were DFA'd today. That was short lived
 
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Hoverhand said:
After a disastrous April where he got lit up 4 times:

107.1 Innings
4.53 ERA
4.59 FIP
4.34 xFIP

EDIT: Pressed enter too quickly

He's a very attractive #6 option, not an 8 or a 9. I'm curious exactly what their plan with him is as his cutter was a super effective pitch in 2021 while it got lit up in 2022. While his four seamer was used less in 2022 but became more effective than 2021. Seeing as his BB/9 was north of 3 last year, this seems like it is ripe for a Pete Walker pet project with some upside.

Chavez Young wasn't ever going to be a consistent major leaguer so I'm pretty happy with this move all and all
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Not terrible at all, but I don't see him higher than #7 with Kikuchi and White arguably still ahead of him. White actually had a better FIP (3.76), and he's a huge question mark, along with Kikuchi. And Kikuchi had FIP's of 3.30 and 4.61 in the 2 preceding seasons.

I just don't like the idea of a team gunning for a championship having to 'hope' for things to fall into place, because we all watched that play out last season and it cost them big time. Berrios is far from a guarantee until he can show last season's tendency to implode on occasion was an aberration. He had been a model of consistency up until that point.

But maybe my expectations are too high, because they did blow by the threshold and IMO it would be silly to count pennies now.

FreeBird said:
Too 300 hitters for a 235 guy
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Says the guy using batting average like it means anything at all.
 
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kb said:
Not terrible at all, but I don't see him higher than #7 with Kikuchi and White arguably still ahead of him. White actually had a better FIP (3.76), and he's a huge question mark, along with Kikuchi. And Kikuchi had FIP's of 3.30 and 4.61 in the 2 preceding seasons.

I just don't like the idea of a team gunning for a championship having to 'hope' for things to fall into place, because we all watched that play out last season and it cost them big time. Berrios is far from a guarantee until he can show last season's tendency to implode was an aberration.

But maybe my expectations are too high, because they did blow by the threshold and IMO it would be silly to count pennies now.
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Not every move has to make ripples at the highest levels of need/deficiency. Yes, higher level rotation depth, like 5th starter or 1st guy up from Buffalo, is a concern. But so is having enough arms in the Bisons rotation to sustain being depleted. This move addresses the latter and does not in any way meaningfully impede the search for the former. It does not mean they're done looking at adding other arms, nor does it mean that they've necessarily passed up acquiring better arms because Thompson is on board. Between him and some of the other invites and minor deals it looks like they're doing what they should do for minor league rotation depth: get as many bodies as they can and just Thunderdome it until they've got a last group standing. And in the mean time they can always look for better options to fit higher in the pecking order.
 
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The Nemesis said:
Not every move has to make ripples at the highest levels of need/deficiency. Yes, higher level rotation depth, like 5th starter or 1st guy up from Buffalo, is a concern. But so is having enough arms in the Bisons rotation to sustain being depleted. This move addresses the latter and does not in any way meaningfully impede the search for the former. It does not mean they're done looking at adding other arms, nor does it mean that they've necessarily passed up acquiring better arms because Thompson is on board. Between him and some of the other invites and minor deals it looks like they're doing what they should do for minor league rotation depth: get as many bodies as they can and just Thunderdome it until they've got a last group standing. And in the mean time they can always look for better options to fit higher in the pecking order.
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Yep, I completely get that.

While we have no idea what the front office has been thinking, it has been speculated that the Jays are looking to add one more swing and miss reliever, along with a #4 RH OF who can mash lefties. The #5 starter has not really been a topic that has been discussed in the media to any great degree.

Since this trade didn't address the swing and miss RP issue, nor the #5 issue, my immediate reaction was one of wondering why they bothered. Aiming higher keeps the likelihood of a scenario of having both Kikuchi and White in the rotation low, with the added benefit of pushing everyone to be that much better. But I do see it addresses depth, which is good if the depth can actually perform.

Hopefully they go down that road before the season starts. With the Marlins signing Cueto and putting up the for sale sign on any one of 4 starters, I was thinking that might be a real opportunity to buy an arm, even if it meant taking on salary and giving up a couple of good prospects. The Marlins had no real need to sign Cueto as they are loaded with pitching, but they did - and he's way above the Thompson tier. It was a smart tactical move as Cueto can be a mentor, and it allows them to deal from their depth to address other issues while awaiting the arrival of the Max Meyer's and Eury Perez's. The Jays have Barger, Martinez, and Toman (further out, yes) basically vying for a future 3rd base job with SS being blocked (at least for now) by Bo. The Marlins have Anderson at 3B, who they've been shopping.

And another thing we need to keep in mind is that the Jays new bench boss is intimately familiar with the whole Marlins organization.
 
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Some conflicting reports;





I honestly see the Jays allowing Kikuchi, White, Pearson, Thompson and others competing for the 5th spot. With White out of options, i think he makes the team regardless. They invested too much money in Kikuchi to give up now. And one or 2 of these guys are bound to pitch like a 5th starter until maybe Ryu is healthy. So i can see the Jays leaving the pitching as is even though it is unpopular. Too many arms unless trades are made to clear spaces.

Manoah
Gausman
Berrios
Bassitt
Kikuchi

Romano
Swanson
Garcia
Bass
Mayza
Cimber
Pop
Richards
White

Already have 14 guys for 13 spots. Pop can be optioned so i think we already have our pitchers unless a great opportunity comes up. But i cant see us not adding another OF. But they could go with Lukes or Lopez. But i think you should add another OF with the empty spot. Kiermaier and Springer are always hurt.
 
I hate to see Merryweather go, but he just hasn't been good enough. If the right team picks him up, and tells him to knock off the 4S I'm like 99% certain he's going to be a guy we'll be pissed we let go.
 
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