Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[Eyedea]

I'm a bit more concerned about McCutchen than I am about Pollock because of his sharp drop off as a platoon bat last year. Even though Cutch's defence is better, Idk if I'm taking Varsho or Kiermaier's defence out of the game to platoon Cutch (106 wRC+ against lefties). I know he murdered lefties in '20 and 21' but Pollock's 161 wRC+ against lefties last year is just so eye catching.

Would be curious to hear who y'alls ideal OF signing is.

I’m definitely pro Pollock. Last year he saw more sliders than ever before and while he struggled early in the year, he bounced back and ended well. He can still play full time and has a higher chance of a bounce back whereas we kinda know what we’d get from Cutch moving forward. Also don’t know if the defence is too far off from each other. Cutch is more speed oriented while Pollock has a better arm. Both aren’t very rangey because of their poor jumps/reads.

 

[Discoverer]

I’m definitely pro Pollock. Last year he saw more sliders than ever before and while he struggled early in the year, he bounced back and ended well. He can still play full time and has a higher chance of a bounce back whereas we kinda know what we’d get from Cutch moving forward. Also don’t know if the defence is too far off from each other. Cutch is more speed oriented while Pollock has a better arm. Both aren’t very rangey because of their poor jumps/reads.

I'd be thrilled with either. I'm not too concerned about the defense because at least there would be an elite defender in CF and a strong defender in RF whenever one of them is in the lineup.

 

[FreeBird]

I'd be thrilled with either. I'm not too concerned about the defense because at least there would be an elite defender in CF and a strong defender in RF whenever one of them is in the lineup.

Guardians sure miss Shatskins there records over six years says it all at half the Salary

 

[Discoverer]

Guardians sure miss Shatskins there records over six years says it all at half the Salary

This is a solid contribution to the McCutchen vs. Pollock discussion.

 

[habamillions]

Borucki and kay are both with the cubs now. Dont know what happened with ryan he just fell off a cliff last year

 

[trellaine201]

Didn’t he always seem to have nagging injuries?

 

[Ale Brew]

Passan reporting Sox extending Devers, 11 yrs $331M.

 

[habamillions]

Passan reporting Sox extending Devers, 11 yrs $331M.

Just gave him 17.5 for 1 year and then this the next day. Yesterday all the "experts" said they were nowhere close lol

 

[phillipmike]

Passan reporting Sox extending Devers, 11 yrs $331M.

Great deal imo for both sides. I cant see Devers getting much more next year in the market. And $30M a year for a 5-6 WAR left handed hitting 3B for his aged 26-36 seasons is a great deal imo.

 

[Ale Brew]

Just gave him 17.5 for 1 year and then this the next day. Yesterday all the "experts" said they were nowhere close lol

Seems like another deal they’ll regret in another 4-5 years.

 

[trellaine201]

Just curious if anyone knows off the top of their heads a player that hits free agency and signs a 7/8 year deal actually produces up their salary or at least close to. Don’t most long term contracts suck near the end.

 

[Ale Brew]

Just curious if anyone knows off the top of their heads a player that hits free agency and signs a 7/8 year deal actually produces up their salary or at least close to. Don’t most long term contracts suck near the end.

I think most of the ones signed recently have been to stretch out the AAV and help minimize the tax.

There haven’t been a ton of these deals in the past, but yeah, they don’t tend to end well. Miguel Cabrera being a recent example. He’s finishing up his deal this season, but hasn’t been value for several years now.

 

[weems]

Jim Callis picks Tiedemann to be minor league pitcher of the year for 2023

“To me it came down to three guys -- Mick Abel, Ricky Tiedemann, maybe Jackson Jobe of the Tigers … I’ll go with Tiedemann. I want to give a shoutout to Keegan Matheson, who does our Blue Jays list with Sam Dykstra, he was really pushing for Ricky Tiedemann going into the year … Third-round pick in 2021, mid-90s fastball, slider, changeup, [throws] strikes, left-handed, good 6-foot-4, 220-pound frame. I’ll gamble a little bit that Tiedemann spends enough time in the Minors."

8 prospect-related predictions for '23

In the first Pipeline Podcast of 2023, Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo take a look at the year ahead with a wide range of predictions about prospects and farm systems to keep an eye on, from Rookies of the Year in both leagues and the No. 1 overall Draft pick

www.mlb.com

 

[Ale Brew]

Another potential 5th starter off the board. Wade Miley is signing with the Brewers.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Passan reporting Sox extending Devers, 11 yrs $331M.

 

[phillipmike]

The funny thing is we may have already had the perfect right handed OF compliment on the roster last year.

He plays average defense in CF and plus in the corners. Big right handed power with a 2022 wRC+ of 141 vs left handed pitching. He is 30 years and would only cost you $5M more to your 2023 roster as you are already paying $5M to play elsewhere; Randall Grichuk.

 

[Hoverhand]

The funny thing is we may have already had the perfect right handed OF compliment on the roster last year.

He plays average defense in CF and plus in the corners. Big right handed power with a 2022 wRC+ of 141 vs left handed pitching. He is 30 years and would only cost you $5M more to your 2023 roster as you are already paying $5M to play elsewhere; Randall Grichuk.

The Tapia trade was a sham from the beginning and I want the world to know it.

 

[Discoverer]

The Tapia trade was a sham from the beginning and I want the world to know it.

Grichuk is a decent fit for a niche role on the team right now, but let's keep in mind he doesn't suck any less than Tapia.

I'm not particularly interested in a reunion, especially since the Rockies presumably think he has value and would want something in return.

 

[Bjindaho]

The funny thing is we may have already had the perfect right handed OF compliment on the roster last year.

He plays average defense in CF and plus in the corners. Big right handed power with a 2022 wRC+ of 141 vs left handed pitching. He is 30 years and would only cost you $5M more to your 2023 roster as you are already paying $5M to play elsewhere; Randall Grichuk.

He was below average in CF last year, hasn't played left in 5 years and owns a 112 wRC+ against lefties for his career (which was boosted by last year).

Also, Tapia outplayed him by 0.5 fWAR last year. The point of getting a 4th OF is that it would either be someone who absolutely rakes against LHP (and without a Coors boost) or someone who can play good D and hit lefties well.

 

[The Iceman]

Devers is so gone no matter the spin from Passan lol

fast forward 24 hours...Ooooooopsie

Guardians sure miss Shatskins there records over six years says it all at half the Salary

Cleveland's schedule has been embarrasingly easy in that division. Lets see how they do competing with the big boys.

 

[Discoverer]

He was below average in CF last year, hasn't played left in 5 years and owns a 112 wRC+ against lefties for his career (which was boosted by last year).

Also, Tapia outplayed him by 0.5 fWAR last year. The point of getting a 4th OF is that it would either be someone who absolutely rakes against LHP (and without a Coors boost) or someone who can play good D and hit lefties well.

To be fair, I don't think his CF defense is even relevant since the current OF already features two elite CF defenders and one adequate one. But yeah, I also don't think a one-year sample of split stats is particularly meaningful either.

While I would argue his WAR would be higher in a role like a 4th OF with the Jays where he could be deployed strategically in positions where he's more likely to succeed and kept out of situations he sucks at, he's also really, aggressively terrible at a lot of those things (75 wRC+ vs RHP the last three years... 75! At least Pollock and McCutchen aren't that bad against righties at 99 and 85, and they're also better against lefties.)

At best, Grichuk should be a backup plan to a backup plan for the 4th OF job.

 

[Bjindaho]

To be fair, I don't think his CF defense is even relevant since the current OF already features two elite CF defenders and one adequate one. But yeah, I also don't think a one-year sample of split stats is particularly meaningful either.

While I would argue his WAR would be higher in a role like a 4th OF with the Jays where he could be deployed strategically in positions where he's more likely to succeed and kept out of situations he sucks at, he's also really, aggressively terrible at a lot of those things (75 wRC+ vs RHP the last three years... 75! At least Pollock and McCutchen aren't that bad against righties at 99 and 85, and they're also better against lefties.)

At best, Grichuk should be a backup plan to a backup plan for the 4th OF job.

And the other issue is that two of the OF we have have been banged up the last few years, so any OF we get needs to at least be playable against RHP just in case.

 

[ER89]

This is a solid contribution to the McCutchen vs. Pollock discussion.

did you expect any better though?

Edit: Also @Discoverer , wanted your take on our current lineup purely offensively.

I think it's worse than last year by a small margin but do we think varsho can take a next step to plug that? Also where would you slot jansen in the order?

 

[Eyedea]

The Tapia trade was a sham from the beginning and I want the world to know it.

They ended up being similar value in 2022, the Jays saved 5m for 2023, and they got an intriguing middle IF prospect in Adrian Pinto. Unless Grichuk goes berserk in 2023 that's a clear win for the Jays.

 

[canucksfan]

Interesting Varsho thread