Rumor: OFF-SEASON AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XC

[henchman21]

I wonder how we would feel about Avs saying no to giving decent term to established top 4 guys in lets say 2012 cause "We have Elliott and Siemens coming up".

I hope they weren't thinking that way then and I hope they aren't thinking that way now.

I don't want to start a big discussion about that, but I get the same feeling about this as I get when Roy talks about drafting after positional need. Like it's free agency. Like he knows what he is going to get from every prospect. Not everyone is going to make it. Bigras might be a career AHLer. I don't think he is but he might be.

I really don't think you should make decisions like that on Sekera because you expect a prospect or two to be ready by this time or later. It's a way too risky game and lets say we would have given Sekera 6 years and signed him. It's not hard to move guys like that IF you get a prospect or two the surpasses him.

I really hope this wasn't their thinking anyway. I wouldn't agree with it being a smart way of conducting business and planning the team.

That isn't the same situation at all. EJ has established himself, and so has Barrie. Meaning instead of 3/4 questions in the top 4 on defense (EJ was top 4 at the time, but still had to reach the top pairing status) there were only 2 questions in the top 4. Zadorov has a full season under his belt in a 4/5 role where he showed promise and at least the ability to stick in the league. If Zadorov doesn't take a top 4 spot over time... then the ROR trade is a failure and Sakic and Roy made a pretty big mistake that may cost them their jobs. Zadorov has to work, so they will plan it that way. That takes 3 of the 4 spots. Meaning that they have to develop 1 top 4 defensemen out of Geertsen/Bigras/Siemens/Wood/Meloche instead of 3 at the same time in 2012. The team is in a totally different spot than they were 3 years ago at the position (you can say in the 3 years 12-15, the Avs developed 1/2 top 4 defensemen... not really a stretch out of a better pool that they get one).

Then it isn't like it was Sekera for 5/6 years or nothing... there was a legitimate shorter term option. Based on their recent play, Beauchemin is a slightly better player than Sekera and has shown that he can handle a top pairing load in the Western Conference very recently. It may not be that way for long, and maybe not through next season (I don't expect Beauch to be better Sekera next season... wouldn't shock me though)... but at the end of the season last year Beauch was the better player. The Avs took the (currently) better player at a shorter term, but carrying more risk for a drop off compared to the younger player that will be a top 4 guy for 4-6 more years at a higher number. Given that Beauchemin should have 2 more good years that gives them 2 years to find another top 4 option while having 3 of the 4 spots filled by younger players. This gives 2 more years for kids to develop, or going for another signing after the cap crunch happens. There is much more flexibility going for the short-term option in Beauchemin than with Sekera, and when you consider the Avs have 3-5 legit middle pairing prospects... that isn't a bad gamble especially when you have to consider next summer's cap situation.

I don't disagree with the idea of wanting Sekera on the team on what Edmonton paid him. I would REALLY be for it if the Avs didn't get Zadorov, but the Avs now have that young, legit top pairing potential guy who is ready for a role in the NHL now (hopefully a top 4 role).

 

[tucker3434]

I wonder how we would feel about Avs saying no to giving decent term to established top 4 guys in lets say 2012 cause "We have Elliott and Siemens coming up".

I hope they weren't thinking that way then and I hope they aren't thinking that way now.

I don't want to start a big discussion about that, but I get the same feeling about this as I get when Roy talks about drafting after positional need. Like it's free agency. Like he knows what he is going to get from every prospect. Not everyone is going to make it. Bigras might be a career AHLer. I don't think he is but he might be.

I really don't think you should make decisions like that on Sekera because you expect a prospect or two to be ready by this time or later. It's a way too risky game and lets say we would have given Sekera 6 years and signed him. It's not hard to move guys like that IF you get a prospect or two the surpasses him.

I really hope this wasn't their thinking anyway. I wouldn't agree with it being a smart way of conducting business and planning the team.

I think our overall defensive crop is better now that it was then, and we have less spots to fill. Bigras seems to be tracking better than expected. Plus, Elliott might have busted but Barrie surprised everyone.

 

[RockLobster]

I wonder how we would feel about Avs saying no to giving decent term to established top 4 guys in lets say 2012 cause "We have Elliott and Siemens coming up".

I hope they weren't thinking that way then and I hope they aren't thinking that way now.

I don't want to start a big discussion about that, but I get the same feeling about this as I get when Roy talks about drafting after positional need. Like it's free agency. Like he knows what he is going to get from every prospect. Not everyone is going to make it. Bigras might be a career AHLer. I don't think he is but he might be.

I really don't think you should make decisions like that on Sekera because you expect a prospect or two to be ready by this time or later. It's a way too risky game and lets say we would have given Sekera 6 years and signed him. It's not hard to move guys like that IF you get a prospect or two the surpasses him.

I really hope this wasn't their thinking anyway. I wouldn't agree with it being a smart way of conducting business and planning the team.

As noted by others, this isn't really the same, our Defense is much different than it was in 2012, less holes to fill than then.

If they believe in Zadorov (and because he was the key for them in the O'Reilly deal, they must), and believe that one of Bigras/Geertsen/etc. is someone that can be a Top-4 defenseman as soon as this year (for Bigras, next season for some of the others), then I can understand why they went a shorter term for Sekera.

On top of that, aside from his brief stint in LA, Sekera has mainly been an Eastern Conference guy, Beauchemin is a tried and tested Western Conference defenseman, and has shown he's capable of putting up the minutes on the Top Pairing.

Would I have rather had Sekera on a 3 year deal? Sure, but I can understand not wanting to go for a lot of term on him (though I also wouldn't have minded either).

 

[InjuredChoker]

has there recently been a smart defenseman who is also a very good skater that hasn't been able to thrive in WC but has in EC?

 

[henchman21]

has there recently been a smart defenseman who is also a very good skater that hasn't been able to thrive in WC but has in EC?

Brian Campbell. I wouldn't say he was bad in the West by any means, but he has been much better in the East during his career.

 

[AvsRobin]

I get what you all are saying but I still dont see the advantages of having Beauchemin on a 35+ deal for 3 years over Sekera on a 6 year deal. But they probably just comes down to how highly I rate the individual players. I'm pretty confident Sekera will be better in all of his 6 years than Beauch will be in year 1 or 2. But maybe I just rate him too highly. And who knows if he would have choose us if we match the Oilers offer. But in general I don't agree with the idea of trying to keep future spots open for prospects.

 

[AvsGuy]

On top of that, aside from his brief stint in LA, Sekera has mainly been an Eastern Conference guy, Beauchemin is a tried and tested Western Conference defenseman, and has shown he's capable of putting up the minutes on the Top Pairing.

I hadn't really considered this, good point.

 

[tucker3434]

I get what you all are saying but I still dont see the advantages of having Beauchemin on a 35+ deal for 3 years over Sekera on a 6 year deal. But they probably just comes down to how highly I rate the individual players. I'm pretty confident Sekera will be better in all of his 6 years than Beauch will be in year 1 or 2. But maybe I just rate him too highly. And who knows if he would have choose us if we match the Oilers offer. But in general I don't agree with the idea of trying to keep future spots open for prospects.

There's where I disagree with you. As of right now, I prefer Beauchemin. Maybe having come from a strong defensive team has me fooled on him, but I think he's the perfect parter for EJ on a shutdown pairing. I only worry about how he holds up. I don't expect to prefer Beauchemin for long.

I agree that we shouldn't hold roster spots for one player. But we're really holding a spot for a committee of players. We have a handful of guys that could become 3/4 players in the next 3 years. The odds are pretty high at least one of them gets there.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I wonder how we would feel about Avs saying no to giving decent term to established top 4 guys in lets say 2012 cause "We have Elliott and Siemens coming up".

I like that they are planning to actually have room for one of the prospects to earn a spot rather than what they've been doing is clinging to marginal veterans, which could be an easy security blanket. If they end up needing to sign a top 4 guy down the road because they haven't developed anyone they still can do that. This team really is going to be made on getting some prospects into the lineup as cost effective talent. I know we can't count on them all to work out but we only really need 1 defenseman and a couple depth forwards (plus Rantanen). The core is going to be too expensive to have much of anyone else making good money, so I do appreciate the flexibility right now.

 

[agentblack]

I get what you all are saying but I still dont see the advantages of having Beauchemin on a 35+ deal for 3 years over Sekera on a 6 year deal. But they probably just comes down to how highly I rate the individual players. I'm pretty confident Sekera will be better in all of his 6 years than Beauch will be in year 1 or 2. But maybe I just rate him too highly. And who knows if he would have choose us if we match the Oilers offer. But in general I don't agree with the idea of trying to keep future spots open for prospects.

I agree with you that Sekera will be better overall but I think its pretty telling what Roy thinks of his prospects that they only offered a 29y/o FA D 3 years.
I think the Avs are hedging their bets on the young guys and more specifically Bigras to be in the top 4 by the time Beauchemin leaves.

 

[RockLobster]

I get what you all are saying but I still dont see the advantages of having Beauchemin on a 35+ deal for 3 years over Sekera on a 6 year deal. But they probably just comes down to how highly I rate the individual players. I'm pretty confident Sekera will be better in all of his 6 years than Beauch will be in year 1 or 2. But maybe I just rate him too highly. And who knows if he would have choose us if we match the Oilers offer. But in general I don't agree with the idea of trying to keep future spots open for prospects.

Then there'd be no way to build a team, at least not with a long-term outlook.

There's a difference between keeping a spot open for a prospect, when you only have 1-2 prospects that could fill that role. The Avs defense now is vastly different than it was in 2012. Beauchemin, on a 3 year deal allows them flexibility. If by the 3rd year he's not that great, alright, he's on the 3rd pairing then, and Stuart's deal is up and he's not likely back either. Sekera, if he shows he's not as good in the Western Conference, is tied up to a lot of money for 6 years, and in the even that Zadorov outplays him (like some project he could), and one of Bigras/Geertsen/Wood/Meloche/etc. burst onto the scene and outperform him, then you've got a 3rd pairing defender at 5.5M with quite a bit of term...and I'm sure you wouldn't like that because you constantly bring up Stuart and his 3.6M cap hit.

 

[TheStranger]

Ok I'm back, I was watching some of those landeskog videos. One second, gotta wipe the sweat off

 

[AvsRobin]

Then there'd be no way to build a team, at least not with a long-term outlook.

There's a difference between keeping a spot open for a prospect, when you only have 1-2 prospects that could fill that role. The Avs defense now is vastly different than it was in 2012. Beauchemin, on a 3 year deal allows them flexibility. If by the 3rd year he's not that great, alright, he's on the 3rd pairing then, and Stuart's deal is up and he's not likely back either. Sekera, if he shows he's not as good in the Western Conference, is tied up to a lot of money for 6 years, and in the even that Zadorov outplays him (like some project he could), and one of Bigras/Geertsen/Wood/Meloche/etc. burst onto the scene and outperform him, then you've got a 3rd pairing defender at 5.5M with quite a bit of term...and I'm sure you wouldn't like that because you constantly bring up Stuart and his 3.6M cap hit.

I agree that our defense is a lot better now than in 2012. But I still disagree with the whole thing of not wanting to go long term on a good player because we are likely to have prospects popping up in the coming years.

I don't really lay any value into who is coming from which conference, but I think Sekera might have a really tough time in Edmonton. He basically have to be the man in every situation for them and I'm not sure he will be able to handle playing that 25-30 min a night over 82 games like he will probably be asked to do. And who is he going to play with? For a hockey perspective, I think he would have been a much better player with us coming in a making that top 4 of EJ, Barrie, Zadorov and him complete.

 

[agentblack]

Then there'd be no way to build a team, at least not with a long-term outlook.

There's a difference between keeping a spot open for a prospect, when you only have 1-2 prospects that could fill that role. The Avs defense now is vastly different than it was in 2012. Beauchemin, on a 3 year deal allows them flexibility. If by the 3rd year he's not that great, alright, he's on the 3rd pairing then, and Stuart's deal is up and he's not likely back either. Sekera, if he shows he's not as good in the Western Conference, is tied up to a lot of money for 6 years, and in the even that Zadorov outplays him (like some project he could), and one of Bigras/Geertsen/Wood/Meloche/etc. burst onto the scene and outperform him, then you've got a 3rd pairing defender at 5.5M with quite a bit of term...and I'm sure you wouldn't like that because you constantly bring up Stuart and his 3.6M cap hit.

This scenario could very well happen in EDM in the next 2 years with Nurse, Reinhart, and Klefbom

 

[JLo217]

Ok I'm back, I was watching some of those landeskog videos. One second, gotta wipe the sweat off

What Landeskog videos?

 

[AslanRH]

One player I'd love to trade for is Dan Hamhuis. Sounds like he won't be re-signing in Vancouver.

Vrbata + Hamhuis

Avs could really load up for a one year run with older guys. Be like the Hockey version of the Expendables or the 2009-2014 Redwings

 

[tigervixxxen]

What Landeskog videos?

Do you have Instagram? If so, look up pt_andreas. He's Landy's trainer in Sweden and he posts a lot of videos. Instagram is great in general if you want to see what's going on with players, lots of gold there.

 

[TheStranger]

Do you have Instagram? If so, look up pt_andreas. He's Landy's trainer in Sweden and he posts a lot of videos. Instagram is great in general if you want to see what's going on with players, lots of gold there.

Is it just me or is there no way to link directly to videos on there? I wanted to share some with my girlfriend (not sure why I would show her videos of a much more attractive and in shape man but ya know) but there's no way to directly link that I can see.

 

[AvsRobin]

Is it just me or is there no way to link directly to videos on there? I wanted to share some with my girlfriend (not sure why I would show her videos of a much more attractive and in shape man but ya know) but there's no way to directly link that I can see.

When you open a video, press F5 and you'll end up on the posts own page and you can copy the URL.

 

[TheStranger]

When you open a video, press F5 and you'll end up on the posts own page and you can copy the URL.

Amazing, thank you

 

[tigervixxxen]

Is it just me or is there no way to link directly to videos on there? I wanted to share some with my girlfriend (not sure why I would show her videos of a much more attractive and in shape man but ya know) but there's no way to directly link that I can see.

I think just google it, I don't know if there's a good way to do it.

Here is one of Landy

https://instagram.com/p/4zlO8DFDyF/?taken-by=pt_andreas

 

[AvsRobin]

Do you have Instagram? If so, look up pt_andreas. He's Landy's trainer in Sweden and he posts a lot of videos. Instagram is great in general if you want to see what's going on with players, lots of gold there.

I loved that Landy wrote @pt_andreas on twitter as well, that is only his nick on Instagram. PT_andreas on twitter is some other personal trainer named Andreas, now a bunch of Avs fans are starting to follow him. Haha.

 

[TheStranger]

I loved that Landy wrote @pt_andreas on twitter as well, that is only his nick on Instagram. PT_andreas on twitter is some other personal trainer named Andreas, now a bunch of Avs fans are starting to follow him. Haha.

Yah I went there first and was like, this clearly isn't the right guy. I guess not everyone has the common sense to figure that out though.

 

[AvsRobin]

I think just google it, I don't know if there's a good way to do it.

Here is one of Landy

https://instagram.com/p/4zlO8DFDyF/?taken-by=pt_andreas

Looks like he is just working on his dance moves

 

[TheStranger]

Looks like he is just working on his dance moves

More like his next fight with Weber. Left to the body, left to the body, left to the body.