Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[RangerBlues]

None of this makes any sense.

 

[Machinehead]

Hey if we really want to put the rose-colored glasses on, maybe a new coach/culture gets Kreider and Zibanejad actually playing hockey again instead of real-life Chel. This team with 19-20 Zibanejad and pre-2019 Kreider would be scary.

Also, nobody wants to talk about this one, but Panarin has spent the entire season sitting in the neutral zone hoping a breakout just happens and he's also capable of more.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

The Rangers have a big discrepancy between the analytics and actual performance this season. We've also lost an outlier amount of close games. You can chalk it up to bad luck but I think it is more bad coaching and Gorton/JD enabling it.

I could be wrong but I feel like we were only a good analytics team in the first half of the season.

 

[NYROrtsFan]

Dolan's comments make me think that JD and Gorton weren't in alignment quite a bit.

 

[Anthony5967]

I could be wrong but I feel like we were only a good analytics team in the first half of the season.

Gorton must not believe faceoffs are valuable in the analytics era. Never win a powerplay face off, never win a draw in general. Dead last in hockey and never addressing that is ridiculous. I know some don’t believe in faceoffs, but that’s fundamentals.

 

[Edge]

Not a bad thing to base it on....

It's so much easier when you just ignore his approach from 1997-2002, or forget the Knicks of...well...the 21st century this far.

You know, when you take away all the DUIs and speeding tickets, the driving record looks pretty clean.

 

[Anthony5967]

It's so much easier when you just ignore his approach from 1997-2002, or forget the Knicks of...well...the 21st century this far.

You know, when you take away all the DUIs and speeding tickets, the driving record looks pretty clean.

Did you feel Gorton and Davidson were infallible? I’m curious. Because there are many things you can knock them on. Sure, they added talent, but two lottery picks landed in their lap, so did Fox and Panarin.

 

[Anzi]

I could be wrong but I feel like we were only a good analytics team in the first half of the season.

You're right, we've been bottom 10 or so in the 2nd half of the season. It's really our PP and PK carrying us.

 

[Edge]

Did you feel Gorton and Davidson were infallible? I’m curious

No, not at all.

I definitely felt like they were building what needed to be built and had done a very good of assembling it to this point. They certainly didn't win every decision, but I felt comfortable with far more of what they'd done over the last 36 months and what they were still aiming to do.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

LOL

 

[Anthony5967]

No, not at all.

I definitely felt like they were building what needed to be built and had done a very good of assembling it to this point. They certainly didn't win every decision, but I felt comfortable with far more of what they'd done over the last 36 months and what they were still aiming to do.

I believe when the owner is sinking his money into guys like Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, DeAngelo (nearly $200M) in contracts, absorbing buyouts on Shattenkirk and Hank, he expects to be competitive at least. The last couple of weeks have been anything but that. They failed to address severe lack of grit and character in the bottom six like Carolina has in guys like Martinook, Foegele, McGinn, etc, and the DeAngelo fiasco that loomed large, etc. I just think if Dolan replaced them with a Messier or complete hack pushover it would be one thing. Drury is someone more people should be confident in.

 

[Joe Ranger Fan 1960]

If the Rangers are soft, part of it is because they haven't named a captain. I understand why they haven't named a captain. It's because they don't have one in the lineup. That's on management.

It's something Drury needs to address if he intends to distinguish himself from his predecessors.

 

[Edge]

I believe when the owner is sinking his money into guys like Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, DeAngelo (nearly $200M) in contracts, absorbing buyouts on Shattenkirk and Hank, he expects to be competitive at least. The last couple of weeks have been anything but that. They failed to address severe lack of grit and character in the bottom six like Carolina has in guys like Martinook, Foegele, McGinn, etc, and the DeAngelo fiasco that loomed large, etc. I just think if Dolan replaced them with a Messier or complete hack pushover it would be one thing. Drury is someone more people should be confident in.

I have no real problem with Drury, save for the fact that he was a key voice in the same team that has all the problems so the whole "failing to address" component would also include him.

I have no problem with expectations either, though I think there are appropriate expectations for different points in time.

The buyouts are largely beginning to come off the books --- with someone like ADA being a virtual non-factor.

Some of those contracts, including Hank and Girardi, were also handed out by Gorton's predecessor --- who is still here.

I don't think the needs of the team were a blindspot. In fact, I'd dare say everyone was aware of them. The question was to what extent you can address them since the Carolina series. Either the solutions were not available, were not interested, or were cost prohibitive.

Coming back from the store without something on the list doesn't always mean that someone forgot to pick up the item in question. Sometimes it wasn't on the shelf, or it really wasn't a price you wanted to pay.

You're right, we didn't address the issues like Carolina did. And in that same vein, Carolina picked in the top 10 5 times between 2010 and 2018, and the top 12 another two times in that span. They moved evaluated players and moved players to fill holes. We are just now hitting that point. We're not comparing two teams working in the same time frame.

 

[Anthony5967]

I have no real problem with Drury, save for the fact that he was a key voice in the same team that has all the problems so the whole "failing to address" component would also include him.

I have no problem with expectations either, though I think there are appropriate expectations for different points in time.

The buyouts are largely beginning to come off the books --- with someone like ADA being a virtual non-factor.

Some of those buyouts, including Hank and Girardi, were also handed out by Gorton's predecessor --- who is still here.

I don't think the needs of the team were a blindspot. In fact, I'd dare say everyone was aware of them. The question was to what extent you can address them since the Carolina series. Either the solutions were not available, were not interested, or were cost prohibitive.

Coming back from the store without something on the list doesn't always mean that someone forgot to pick up the item in question. Sometimes it wasn't on the shelf, or it really wasn't a price you wanted to pay.

You're right, we didn't address the issues like Carolina did. And in that same vein, Carolina picked in the top 10 5 times between 2010 and 2018, and the top 12 another two times in that span. They moved evaluated players and moved players to fill holes. We are just not hitting that point. We're not comparing two teams working in the same time frame.

I mean DeAngelo’a buyout won’t cost Gorton, it just means Dolan is out that money that was virtually thrown down the drain. For a guy that they should’ve cashed in on, value-wise, not just sent him home. Lundqvist was a Gorton buyout. Sure, Sather paid him, but still. I guess we will see what happens.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not for nothing everything Dolan said in that article has been said here many many times by multiple posters.

a lack of leadership from the top down was apparent and it has been getting worse for 2 years now. We’ve had nothing but drama

and it’s been in all facets of the organization as he pointed out. Including don’t be fooled the buddy bull shit of signing jack johnson and hiring of jd’s kid.

Dolan did the right thing. He like us sees way too much talent to let it go to waste under a regime he did not trust.

Yeah, JD hired his son-in-law as the director of NA scouting and his brother as a scout.

I remember how outraged fans were we used a 6th round pick on the son of one of our scouts. This is 100 times more shady.

 

[Edge]

I mean DeAngelo’a buyout won’t cost Gorton, it just means Dolan is out that money that was virtually thrown down the drain. For a guy that they should’ve cashed in on, value-wise, not just sent him home. Lundqvist was a Gorton buyout. Sure, Sather paid him, but still. I guess we will see what happens.

Girardi was a Sather contract.

Staal was a Sather contract.

Lundqvist was a Sather contract.

That right there are contracts we either had to buy out to move forward, or had to give a pick away to be rid of. That's more of Dolan's money that he's giving to ADA with a buyout.

There was no path forward with Lundqvist. He didn't want to be a backup. He didn't want to stay in that role. You're left with two choices there --- pay him to sit and piss him off (and move a contract in order to do it), or you bite the bullet and buy him out.

I mean Sather had years to throw Dolan's money at Redden, and Gomez and Drury and other guys who, frankly, failed miserably. So I don't see how Dolan now suddenly said "Oh crap, that's my money what are you doing?!?!"

I feel like this is a move you make a year from now if things really aren't addressed, if a regular schedule doesn't produce results and if we're not getting the returns on the young talent (aka the real core of the rebuild).

That's where the timing component comes in. This feels like a move you "could" do but probably wouldn't qualify as "should" do. I also don't buy the Drury exit interview line either --- he's literally been in every exit interview since he started working with the front office.

 

[bobbop]

For those of us stuck in MSNBC hell last night and tonight, can someone post any of the most interesting comments Valiquette or Sam make on MSG?

 

[Anthony5967]

Girardi was a Sather contract.

Staal was a Sather contract.

Lundqvist was a Sather contract.

That right there are contracts we either had to buy out to move forward, or had to give a pick away to be rid of. That's more of Dolan's money that he's giving to ADA with a buyout.

There was no path forward with Lundqvist. He didn't want to be a backup. He didn't want to stay in that role. You're left with two choices there --- pay him to sit and piss him off (and move a contract in order to do it), or you bite the bullet and buy him out.

I mean Sather had years to throw Dolan's money at Redden, and Gomez and Drury and other guys who, frankly, failed miserably. So I don't see how Dolan now suddenly said "Oh crap, that's my money what are you doing?!?!"

I feel like this is a move you make a year from now if things really aren't addressed, if a regular schedule doesn't produce results and if we're not getting the returns on the young talent (aka the real core of the rebuild).

That's where the timing component comes in. This feels like a move you "could" do but probably wouldn't qualify as "should" do. I also don't buy the Drury exit interview line either --- he's literally been in every exit interview since he started working with the front office.

There was also a solid chance Drury is gone this off-season if he’s offered another job. Maybe Sather and Dolan knew Drury was the man moving forward and they couldn’t afford to lose him, especially after a down year.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

For those of us stuck in MSNBC hell last night and tonight, can someone post any of the most interesting comments Valiquette or Sam make on MSG?

"Drury has our support. Ha ha." - Sam Rosen

 

[Hire Sather]

That article kind of eases me a bit but at the same time, only further proves that Dolan's an idiot. I feel like the reasons that are cited there are reasons why you blow up the coaching staff, not the management. We have the talent to win the Cup but there was a weakness in the team? Who does that fall on, Jim?

But like I said, it eases me in the sense that as usual he praises Sather and it seems like he's gonna have a more prominent role than he did the past two years. Ideally Drury has final call on everything and runs hockey ops and Glen acts as that buffer to ease Dolan so that he can run the show.

Isn't that amazing that it comes to the point where knowing that Glen Sather s in charge is actually a huge positive?

Imagine it being 2005 and someone telling you that would be the case in 2021

 

[Edge]

There was also a solid chance Drury is gone this off-season if he’s offered another job. Maybe Sather and Dolan knew Drury was the man moving forward and they couldn’t afford to lose him, especially after a down year.

To me that still seems weird on the timing though.

I don't buy the whole JD and Gorton not on the same page thing either. Because they seemed to be pretty lock step on messaging and strategy for two guys who weren't on the same page. So that's weird to me.

It's possible that Drury gets scooped by another team. But I also worry that the hope of him being a wunderkind in the front office hasn't necessarily been reflected in the opportunities he's received thus far - be it Team USA or even Hartford. Certainly if one has a problem with where things are now, it would have to include him as well. Otherwise is his work just the exception to unacceptable work?

Now having said that, I think he's done well. But part of me, at least right now, wonders how much of this is also the mystique of "Chris Drury the winning hockey player" as well. We already bought high on that mystique once before.

 

[Hire Sather]

Anyway so Joe hits Sam with a chair tonight and joins the front office

Setting up a triple tag match

Dolan, Drury, Micheletti vs Sam, JD and Gorton for ownership of the team

The only way I can manage to make sense of this is to make wrestling references.

Sather interferes, attacks Dolan and the good guys win

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

For those of us stuck in MSNBC hell last night and tonight, can someone post any of the most interesting comments Valiquette or Sam make on MSG?

A lot of the company line. Really nothing of note. Either Sam had a cold or was really emotional.

Vally more of a cheerleader. This org is in a great position (do with that what you will).

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There was also a solid chance Drury is gone this off-season if he’s offered another job. Maybe Sather and Dolan knew Drury was the man moving forward and they couldn’t afford to lose him, especially after a down year.

Dolan knows Drury as the fat kid who won the LLWS from some place in Connecticut. He knows it wasn't Westport, Greenwich or New Canaan.

 

[NYR94]

We're sitting here trying to piece together the bits of information we have in order to find the logical, level-headed thought process that went into firing JD and Gorton. But like people who have had experience with Dolan have said, he can be prone to irrationally lashing out at people who don't agree with him or criticize his stance.

It feels like we're looking for something (logic) that just isn't there with Dolan's management style, and we're stuck with him. The boss isn't always right, but he always the boss.