Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I really think the personnel make the team. A coach can only do so much. Definitely need a good coach but if the team is consistently failing - and I totally believe that’s debatable - it’s the players more than the coach. And the FO assembles the players, at least in this case. So - again, it’s certainly debatable - if you buy into the concept that the team doesn’t have the right parts, the blame falls on the FO.

Personally, I was fine with everything except the softness. And I thought that could be addressed in the off-season, artfully. But if you accept the premise that the team composition is flawed, that’s not the coach’s fault, really.

The truly great coaches have an equally great affect in my opinion. Trotz taking a Tavares-less ISles and doing what he did cemented that in my mind. Unfortunately, hockey has maybe half a dozen great coaches, some truly inept ones and a rotating wheel of guys who are just there and can be carried by talent on the ice.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

you are all missing the main point of why gorton and jd were fired, yes it is because of the TDA saga. hear me out

Gorton holds a ridiculous press conference saying unnecessarily that TDA has played his last game as a Ranger which effectively destroyed any trade value for TDA
it was a totally unprofessional press conference with JD sitting there like a doofus listening to every word and agreeing with Gorton

well the move backfires because no team has the cap space to trade for TDA and so TDA sits the entire season and his absence hurts the teams production and playoff hopes are eliminated

now Dolan is sitting there writing paychecks and he says to himself "why am I paying TDA 4.8 million per year and the guy is sitting at home and not playing?
plus the teams poor performance results in JD and Gorton being fired.

I said this multiple times on HF boards and got nothing but vile and contempt from posters Edge and True Blue and most everyone else.

what Gorton did was a fireable offense and he deserves it. Good riddance to Gorton and I hope Drury does an excellent job.

You presented fantasy (with a dash of reality) as complete reality

 

[Edge]

Not challenging this but in 2021 does a captain really have to be a kick you in the ass type? I mean the Pens made Crosby captain and the Caps made Ovechkin captain, both around what 20? And that was like 15 years ago. If anything I think the league has gotten away from that tough ass style.

Depends on the group --- this one probably needs more of that.

But more than anything, it's about being someone who leads and steers a direction. I don't know if we have that guy yet.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Dolan spoke to brooks yesterday, he said he "saw weakness" within the team.


James Dolan: Chris Drury 'the right guy' to lead the Rangers

Gotta admit, after reading that I am happy Dolan at least provided some explanation as to what his thinking was, specifically the timing of it all. The thing about Chris handling the exit interviews was actually an important point. So I am happy that this seems to be based in some critical thinking as opposed to just an emotional snap decision.

Where I disagree with Dolan is his assumption that there is enough on this team to compete for a Cup. There are pieces, yes - for sure. Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Trouba, etc. But you have a rookie #1 goalie and several teenagers in top spots that are still developing. Im sure JD and Gorts were going to begin adding the necessary pieces.

But Dolan is in it every day and if he sees that things arent going in the right direction for whatever reason then nip it in the bud now, before you lose the guy you really want leading the ship longterm in Drury. I have no problem with Chris being GM. I am quite excited about it honestly. I think he will continue what he has picked up from both JD and Gorts. I am also happy to hear Dolan seeing him as a Brian Cashman type who could be here for 20 years. If he has that impression of him, then the sooner the better to have him get his hands on the wheel.

JD may have been too soft for Dolans liking and he was envisioning a slower path to success. I could also see that. With Drury you get a more decisive, single voice. Gorts I will always defend because I think hes one of the top GMs in the league. So lets be clear, there is no doubt a lot of risk in this move.

I appreciate that Dolan took the time to explain himself. Thats really all I wanted. He made the decision and he and the fans will have to live with that. We will see if it's the right one, and to be fair - if it is we will have to give Dolan credit.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I hate theres a part of me that agrees with Dolan. A lot of us said going into the off-season that the team needed some guys who could play more physically and stand up for our stars and young players. We got Jack Johnson instead.

I still would have given Gorton and JD the chance to correct this, but Dolan couldn’t have been happy seeing his star player getting rag dolled.

Also if Sather did influence him then he’s one to talk. Who can forget watching Gaborik getting pummeled by Carcillo while Girardi skated away. Then he would go and spend a stupid about of money on a goon.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Gotta admit, after reading that I am happy Dolan at least provided some explanation as to what his thinking was, specifically the timing of it all. The thing about Chris handling the exit interviews was actually an important point. So I am happy that this seems to be based in some critical thinking as opposed to just an emotional snap decision.

Where I disagree with Dolan is his assumption that there is enough on this team to compete for a Cup. There are pieces, yes - for sure. Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Trouba, etc. But you have a rookie #1 goalie and several teenagers in top spots that are still developing. Im sure JD and Gorts were going to begin adding the necessary pieces.

But Dolan is in it every day and if he sees that things arent going in the right direction for whatever reason then nip it in the bud now, before you lose the guy you really want leading the ship longterm in Drury. I have no problem with Chris being GM. I am quite excited about it honestly. I think he will continue what he has picked up from both JD and Gorts. I am also happy to hear Dolan seeing him as a Brian Cashman type who could be here for 20 years. If he has that impression of him, then the sooner the better to have him get his hands on the wheel.

JD may have been too soft for Dolans liking and he was envisioning a slower path to success. I could also see that. With Drury you get a more decisive, single voice. Gorts I will always defend because I think hes one of the top GMs in the league. So lets be clear, there is no doubt a lot of risk in this move.

I appreciate that Dolan took the time to explain himself. Thats really all I wanted. He made the decision and he and the fans will have to live with that. We will see if it's the right one, and to be fair - if it is we will have to give Dolan credit.

Shockingly, he said a lot of the right things in that interview. The tough part will be him actually following through with his promise of turning the team over to Drury and then going back into the shadows. If he does that, even though I think firing Gorton and JD was a mistake, we as fans need to respect the decisions he's made as the team's owner.

 

[broadwayblue]

I hate theres a part of me that agrees with Dolan. A lot of us said going into the off-season that the team needed some guys who could play more physically and stand up for our stars and young players. We got Jack Johnson instead.

I still would have given Gorton and JD the chance to correct this, but Dolan couldn’t have been happy seeing his star player getting rag dolled.

Also if Sather did influence him then he’s one to talk. Who can forget watching Gaborik getting pummeled by Carcillo while Girardi skated away. Then he would go and spend a stupid about of money on a goon.

I think we all saw this. But we had tons of dead cap space and pretty much no flexibility to bring tougher guys in. Who did you want us to get and how much would they have cost? I just didn't really see the point when we weren't contending this year anyway. JD and Gorton recognized that we needed to get tougher to play against, but you can't change the team in one off season with no money. They drafted a couple guys to assist in that department, but the rebuild takes time. I was happy with the direction of the team, and will be going forward if Drury doesn't blow it all up to try and win in the next two or three years when we were looking at a much longer window if we kept with the plan.

 

[JimmyG89]

Dolan spoke to brooks yesterday, he said he "saw weakness" within the team.


James Dolan: Chris Drury 'the right guy' to lead the Rangers

Missing a word is important for that quote:

“I saw a weakness in the team that was not being addressed and I knew it needed to be,”

There is a team deficiency he did not like. I do not believe he is referring to being weak overall. When they talk about culture changes, it is in the leadership of the team. Gorton and JD are the top of the top, outside of himself, and while I would have allowed Gorton to make the moves to get the team needs fixed since he did extremely well in the asset accumulation aspect of a rebuild.

One thing we do know is that the team is getting better. The younger players are improving. It is difficult for these guys to add in that physicality that an older, more veteran, team would have. As he gets older, Kakko is going to get more physical. His game is still developing. Same goes for someone like Chytil. I don't think they fully realize how much bigger of a player they are in comparison to the majority of the league. I expect Lafreniere to bring some of that edge next season as well, it was part of his game in juniors.

There was a ton of overall chaos around this team in the last 4 months starting with DeAngelo. It probably goes back to before then. I wonder what he thought about how the Hank situation was handled. That was a mess having the three goalies around.

Dolan saw the benefits of changing his front office and coach this year. Thibs, Leon Rose, World Wide Wes, and company turned the Knicks from literal garbage into a team that has a clear path and vision. The team remained somewhat the same, a lot of the faces on the court are the same. It was a change in attitude at the top and with the head coach. It sounds like he is hoping for more of the same with the Rangers.

 

[JohnC]

Before yesterday what bad things has Dolan done to the Rangers??

Remember during the Winter Classic in 2012 when he said we'd win the cup that year, thus leading to the events surrounding our big time deadline acquisition to help our scoring depth of *checks notes* John Scott?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The biggest indictment on JD and Gorton, I guess, was not recognizing the division they were going to be playing in this year and adding a take no BS player to protect the team's stars and younger players. In retrospect, that was a mistake even though I'm assuming their plan was to address that this offseason.

 

[Ardi44]

There was no reason to not have signed Matt Martin to play on the 4th line instead of Howden. He would have been the perfect player to play 4th line minutes and protect the rest of the team

 

[will1066]

Shockingly, he said a lot of the right things in that interview. The tough part will be him actually following through with his promise of turning the team over to Drury and then going back into the shadows. If he does that, even though I think firing Gorton and JD was a mistake, we as fans need to respect the decisions he's made as the team's owner.

At the end of the day, he's the financier. He seems all-in on Drury. I think, from his view, he knows that he has a good thing in Drury because the guy was highly sought-after and word gets around the community, even up to the NHL owners' level. He might not be a hockey man, but as a business man, he knows he's got an asset in Drury. At the other end of the equation, Drury demanded both positions for cohesion and autonomy, and he got his wish. I think Dolan will leave Drury alone for the most part, watch from a distance at his perch high in the sky, and rely on Sather to be Drury's emissary and translate hockey for him.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

At the end of the day, he's the financier. He seems all-in on Drury. I think, from his view, he knows that he has a good thing in Drury because the guy was highly sought-after and word gets around the community, even up to the NHL owners' level. He might not be a hockey man, but as a business man, he knows he's got an asset in Drury. At the other end of the equation, Drury demanded both positions for cohesion and autonomy, and he got his wish. I think Dolan will leave Drury alone for the most part, watch from a distance at his perch high in the sky, and rely on Sather to be Drury's emissary and translate hockey for him.

Agreed. I can't stand the guy but if he didn't like what he saw and decided they needed to make a change, there's not much you can do about it. At least he elevated the right guy (we hope). I said it before but part of me feels like Sather was in Dolan's ear the last month or so. For whatever reason, he listens to and respects Sather. Say what you want about the guy but he'll be a great buffer between the two.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I think we all saw this. But we had tons of dead cap space and pretty much no flexibility to bring tougher guys in. Who did you want us to get and how much would they have cost? I just didn't really see the point when we weren't contending this year anyway. JD and Gorton recognized that we needed to get tougher to play against, but you can't change the team in one off season with no money. They drafted a couple guys to assist in that department, but the rebuild takes time. I was happy with the direction of the team, and will be going forward if Drury doesn't blow it all up to try and win in the next two or three years when we were looking at a much longer window if we kept with the plan.

I’m not saying they could’ve gone on a spending spree, but when you have limited cap space and an obvious need it has to be spent more wisely.

They could’ve signed someone like Borowiecki or Clifford for the money they gave Johnson, who we all knew was trash. At least they would’ve served some sort of role.

 

[mulli25]

I think we all saw this. But we had tons of dead cap space and pretty much no flexibility to bring tougher guys in. Who did you want us to get and how much would they have cost? I just didn't really see the point when we weren't contending this year anyway. JD and Gorton recognized that we needed to get tougher to play against, but you can't change the team in one off season with no money. They drafted a couple guys to assist in that department, but the rebuild takes time. I was happy with the direction of the team, and will be going forward if Drury doesn't blow it all up to try and win in the next two or three years when we were looking at a much longer window if we kept with the plan.

Enforcer discussion aside, I suspect you have a different version of the plan than the organization. They're goal is to be the dominant franchise of the 2020's, and I think they're focused on firmly establishing that during the prime of Panarin's deal, thus they expect to be cup-competitive over the next three years.

They won't being going "all in" and mortgaging the entire future, but undoubtedly pieces we like are going to be moved, and hard decisions are going to be made. They've done a damn good job acquiring assets if you ask me, but those assets were acquired knowing full well some of them would be moved. Moving some of those pieces to commit towards being competitive in this window is the right call, but hopefully Drury knows what he's doing. Making the wrong moves over the next couple offseason can ruin it all. Likewise, missing the window of Panarin's prime and kids' low cap hits could be equally unfortunate.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

There was no reason to not have signed Matt Martin to play on the 4th line instead of Howden. He would have been the perfect player to play 4th line minutes and protect the rest of the team

Weren't they one of the teams in on Martin but he decided to stay with the Islanders?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

There seems to be some revisionist history going on with how the team approached last off season

1. they didn’t have much money to make a ton of moves

2. We know they tried to go after different players in UFA and those players picked different teams. Either the money was better elsewhere or they didn’t want to play for the team altogether. I’m not sure how much Gorton could do about that.

 

[Hire Sather]

There was no reason to not have signed Matt Martin to play on the 4th line instead of Howden. He would have been the perfect player to play 4th line minutes and protect the rest of the team

They tried. He chose to go back to the Islanders.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There was no reason to not have signed Matt Martin to play on the 4th line instead of Howden.

There was if he didn't want to play here.....

 

[Kodiak]

Missing a word is important for that quote:



There is a team deficiency he did not like. I do not believe he is referring to being weak overall. When they talk about culture changes, it is in the leadership of the team. Gorton and JD are the top of the top, outside of himself, and while I would have allowed Gorton to make the moves to get the team needs fixed since he did extremely well in the asset accumulation aspect of a rebuild.

One thing we do know is that the team is getting better. The younger players are improving. It is difficult for these guys to add in that physicality that an older, more veteran, team would have. As he gets older, Kakko is going to get more physical. His game is still developing. Same goes for someone like Chytil. I don't think they fully realize how much bigger of a player they are in comparison to the majority of the league. I expect Lafreniere to bring some of that edge next season as well, it was part of his game in juniors.

There was a ton of overall chaos around this team in the last 4 months starting with DeAngelo. It probably goes back to before then. I wonder what he thought about how the Hank situation was handled. That was a mess having the three goalies around.

Dolan saw the benefits of changing his front office and coach this year. Thibs, Leon Rose, World Wide Wes, and company turned the Knicks from literal garbage into a team that has a clear path and vision. The team remained somewhat the same, a lot of the faces on the court are the same. It was a change in attitude at the top and with the head coach. It sounds like he is hoping for more of the same with the Rangers.

I would like to see the bold happen and I think for our young guys, they have to be coached on this point. On the forecheck, only the 4th line seems to make contact. The top 3 lines all pull up and go for the puck. I don't know if the coaching staff wants this or if this is part of the system, but I would love to see an emphasis on the first forechecker actually making contact. Once we see start to see regular physical up and down the lineup, it tends to snowball.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Weren't they one of the teams in on Martin but he decided to stay with the Islanders?

Stop making sense.

 

[haveandare]

Honestly does anyone think any player “protects” any other player? I just don’t see how that’s remotely possible but I’m open to being convinced.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Honestly does anyone think any player “protects” any other player? I just don’t see how that’s remotely possible but I’m open to being convinced.

It's a romantic notion of old people that liked fights back in the day.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Honestly does anyone think any player “protects” any other player? I just don’t see how that’s remotely possible but I’m open to being convinced.

Fair point. At least in this day and age of the NHL.

 

[Kodiak]

Honestly does anyone think any player “protects” any other player? I just don’t see how that’s remotely possible but I’m open to being convinced.

No one can stop Tom Wilson from being Tom Wilson. If there was a way to do that, Wilson would be out of the league.