Nylander's Holdout is About a lot More Than Willy and the Leafs

[PromisedLand]

Let's go back to your original post:



This is inconsistent with all the CF articles. In every example the longer the player waited the less money they received from their contract. The year 2+ cap hits are lower because the player received less.

Note: none of the CF examples use year 1 signing bonuses. If they incorporated that into the formula then the year 2+ cap hits would be higher.

yup pretty much except the formula includes "salary" as one of the variables. And signing bonuses are part of the salary in the given year

the longer nylander waits the less money is gong to receive

 

[David Suzuki]

Shanahan is a P.O.S. Just look at his history in the league.

Yep awful comment. Figured a former player would have some sense of solidarity with a player trying to get paid.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I really think it’s all about his dad. If he was about winning he should take pretty much anything that starts with a 6. If that’s not being offered then this is all on Dubas. I doubt that’s being the case as Nylanders agent has been pretty much silent as well as Dubas bringing up “comparables” in a few interviews with regards to the upcoming contracts. Overpaying Nylander as a “faux-NTC” is ridiculous.

I really hope Dubas doesn’t settle on a deal or trade. Get him signed for what you believe he’s worth or trade him for a great deal. Anything else and let him sit out the year. This is Dubas’ most important move as a GM yet, surpassing the Tavares signing. He needs to show agents and GMs that he’s not going to be pushed around

 

[JD1]

I think the leafs backed themselves into a cap hit corner signing first Marleau and then Tavares. This year the problem is Nylander. Next year it's Matthews and Marner and to a lesser extent Kapanen. I can see them giving away a bunch for someone to take Marleau but it still doesn't leave them able to address the D situation and sign he RFAs

 

[mouser]

yup pretty much except the formula includes "salary" as one of the variables. And signing bonuses are part of the salary in the given year

the longer nylander waits the less money is gong to receive

Salary and Signing Bonuses are two different things in the CBA. A Signing Bonus is part of the player's total compensation for a given season, but is not part of the Salary.

Nylander could end up making more money by waiting, but that would assume Toronto eventually increases their offer to him. If that happens then his cap would be higher--there's no magical outcome where Nylander both makes more money and the Leafs get a lower cap hit. Either the money and cap are both higher or the money and cap are both lower.

 

[Blowfish]

I think the leafs backed themselves into a cap hit corner signing first Marleau and then Tavares. This year the problem is Nylander. Next year it's Matthews and Marner and to a lesser extent Kapanen. I can see them giving away a bunch for someone to take Marleau but it still doesn't leave them able to address the D situation and sign he RFAs

This and the direction from the organization to Babs to play the kids low minutes the last 2 years and this year. Hence the Babs to Arizona sorry Matthews trip. The kids know what's up. Pretty f obvious to see. Contain minutes contain points contain $ contracts.

 

[cobra427]

Due to the nature and speed in which the NHL is evolving this contract is about a lot more than just William Nylander and the Toronto Maple Leafs. The last several years the league has seen an incredible influx of young talent that have proven to be impact players much sooner than previous decades. This season might see more players in the first 5 years of their pro career in the top 60 of scoring than ever before. Traditionally players coming off an ELC are usually signed to reasonable mid term mid cost deals, usually a contract that doesn't end in them being a UFA. That third or fourth contract is most often seen as the payday, as these players have payed their dues and established themselves after many years of productive play. There are some notable exceptions(McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel) that can be said to have changed the market, but for the most part players of this caliber aren't usually getting 8 years. Some recent examples of players on good money deals during their RFA status and what are likely their prime production years are; Mark Scheifle, Nathan MacKinnon, Alexander Barkov, Brad Marchand, Filip Forsberg, and even John Tavares. Some players sign smaller bridge contracts during these years like Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, Nikita Kucherov, and Max Pacioretty. The contracts these players signed coming off their ELCs can be said to be typical of the tradition in the NHL of placing an emphasis on "earning" a big money deal through consistent production during the RFA status.

What Nylander and his camp are recognizing is that having this kind of talented youth producing like a premier player in the NHL has become more valuable than ever before. The NHL has trended towards youth, speed, and skill over veterans who might provide more "presence". With more young players proving their worth in shorter time periods and this contract being situated in the highest of profile markets in Toronto, it will have an important impact on setting the market for the next batch of 60+ point RFAs, of which there are certain to be more and more of around the league. Getting your young talent on good term and good money is of utmost importance to an NHL franchise in a hard cap system, even with that cap increasing. Nylander and his agent are absolutely right to be holding Dubas's feet over the fire and I'm sure the rest of the league is very interested in the outcome. This is a very important contract in modelling what some of the League's other young talent are going to be looking for over the next 5+ years. Will they be willing to take less just because they are "young" and are still Restricted Free Agents? Or will they demand to be valued for what they are as possibly the most vital pieces of an NHL team's future?

The CBA over pays UFA's, under pays RFA's, and way under pays ELC's. Until the CBA changes, RFA guys like Nylander and Trouba will get under paid. It is a structure problem. Nylander and his agent can kick and scream all they want but will come out on the short end of the stick almost no matter what since they have zero rights and zero leverage. The NHL is still mostly vets, and they will never vote to take away UFA rights to help RFA players, and that is exactly what the owners would ask for. The bottom line is that good RFA's are stuck and have to pay there dues, be underpaid until they are a UFA, then they have rights.

 

[Kennedys]

I think the leafs will be ok without Nylander anyway. But seriously they should trade him for a D , they already have more than enough offence without Nylander

 

[Blowfish]

I think the leafs will be ok without Nylander anyway. But seriously they should trade him for a D , they already have more than enough offence without Nylander

Matthews shoulder issues are the biggest concern with this leafs team. The centre depth just became very weak.

 

[Kennedys]

Matthews shoulder issues are the biggest concern with this leafs team. The centre depth just became very weak.

Damn, Tavares and Kadri and the center depth is weak... Glad you're not a Habs fan=P

 

[Blowfish]

Damn, Tavares and Kadri and the center depth is weak... Glad you're not a Habs fan=P

Very glad at that!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's not a hold out at all. 2 sides arent able to agree, but putting it solely on Nylander is garbage

Calling it a holdout doesn't imply it is all on the player. All it means is that he is holding out for something other than the teams best offer to date. If he isn't with the team, it is a holdout. That is the definition of a holdout.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

i dont think he cares too be honest, he's willing to hold out to get his money. i'm guessing there's a massive gap between what he wants and what the leafs are willing to give and for that reason IMO he can risk missing an entire season.

Except that he isn't going to get what he is asking for. His excessive demand for money is also making him hard to trade. No other team wants to pay 8 mil either.

 

[bustamente]

Leaf fans are going to have to realize that keeping all the young talent will be nearly impossible, trade him get a good d man a try to make a run for the cup.

 

[Nineteen67]

This and the direction from the organization to Babs to play the kids low minutes the last 2 years and this year. Hence the Babs to Arizona sorry Matthews trip. The kids know what's up. Pretty f obvious to see. Contain minutes contain points contain $ contracts.

Well if the strategy is to sabotage the team wouldn’t it be easier to just trade the players or not draft them in the first place? Why go through all the trouble?

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Except that he isn't going to get what he is asking for. His excessive demand for money is also making him hard to trade. No other team wants to pay 8 mil either.

We dont know what nylander wants but we do know the leafs want him to take discount for the sake of the team. Quite frankly when a team looks to an outside ufa and gives them a massive contract...you destroy the structure of contracts for your core players. Why should they take a discount when you're going to throw money around to players that werent home grown? And ya I know players like tavares dont come around often, but when you want YOUR guys to tow the company line you should put a priority on making them happy over outside guys.

 

[Newsworthy]

Except that he isn't going to get what he is asking for. His excessive demand for money is also making him hard to trade. No other team wants to pay 8 mil either.

Teams with plenty of cap space would certainly ante up $7 million especially if he plays Center.

 

[53or8]

Leafs are gonna have the chicago problem soon just with no cups to talk about.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Said it before
Nylander camp isn’t going accept a a lesser deal because the leafs signed a 28 years old free agent

There is a difference between RFAs and UFAs.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Matthews shoulder issues are the biggest concern with this leafs team. The centre depth just became very weak.

Very weak???
Tavares had 37 goals last year and Kadri 32 goals last year...I think they'll be fine.

 

[redgrant]

I find it odd how leaf fans insist Nylander take a deal like pastrnak. So just because he took less than he's worth Nylander should as well?

He won't get overpaid like Draisaitl and he won't get a darling deal like pastrnak. Probably around 7 to 7.5 is fair especially. If a guy like stone will get easily 8m.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If Matthews is out long term:

Marleau Kadri Marner
Hyman Tavares Brown
Johnsson Nylander Kapanen

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

I find it odd how leaf fans insist Nylander take a deal like pastrnak. So just because he took less than he's worth Nylander should as well?

He won't get overpaid like Draisaitl and he won't get a darling deal like pastrnak. Probably around 7 to 7.5 is fair especially. If a guy like stone will get easily 8m.

Larkin a full time center just signed for 6.1x5 - 2018 deal
Similar production to willy

and ehlers just last year 6milx7 who are his direct comparable - 2017 deal
Similar production to willy

Pasta got more cause he had a 70 point season before he signed 6.6x6 - 2017 deal
Better production then willy

Why does willy deserve 7 mil when comparable players arent getting it?

 

[redgrant]

Larkin a full time center just signed for 6.1x5 - 2018 deal
Similar production to willy

and ehlers just last year 6milx7 who are his direct comparable - 2017 deal
Similar production to willy

Pasta got more cause he had a 70 point season before he signed 6.6x6 - 2017 deal
Better production then willy

Why does willy deserve 7 mil when comparable players arent getting it?

Hes better than Larkin lol. He's more comparable to a highly skilled winger which pastrnak is. Again just because someone makes a sweetheart deal doesn't mean you can force everyone else to as well.

I'm sure dubas is saying he's not going to be an idiot just because Chiarelli signed Draisaitl for 8.5 million.

Nylander could be looking at Mark stone that is a more reasonable comparison.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Hes better than Larkin lol. He's more comparable to a highly skilled winger which pastrnak is. Again just because someone makes a sweetheart deal doesn't mean you can force everyone else to as well.

I'm sure dubas is saying he's not going to be an idiot just because Chiarelli signed Draisaitl for 8.5 million.

Nylander could be looking at Mark stone that is a more reasonable comparison.

How does Nylander look at Mark Stone when Stone hasn't signed said extension? You can't bargain over hypotheticals. Pastranaks deal was also market value at the time it was signed last year. He has obviously gotten better since it was signed but it is disingenuous to make it sound like he took a sweat heart deal by choice. He took the most money available based on his comparable and market value. Nylander is comparable at the times they signed the contract. Nylander has done absolutely nothing to deserve 7.5.....Can you list one comparable for him in the range?