Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[PromisedLand]

Thanks!
Ya I'm in 'sauga, so far just clouds haha.

At this point all we can do is clench and hope for the best lol then we can either celebrate or rant.

Def is frustrating tho... Never do I remember signing stars being such a pain in the ass

I think (i didn't check) Leafs are the only team in the league that have multiple 10+ AAV players on their team that haven't even gone to the conference finals. Karlsson is the only player that comes to mind in terms of 10+ AAV with his new team; but even he went to the conference finals with the sens

Signing stars being such a pain definitely sucks but some posters justifying 10 AAV etc. for Nylander and 12 to 13 AAV for Marner and 14+ AAV for Matthews is what frustrates me a lot. If we bendover to every whim of the players there is no way to have success in the world where teams have to be cap compliant while building competitive rosters.

 

[Metroid]

I think (i didn't check) Leafs are the only team in the league that have multiple 10+ AAV players on their team that haven't even gone to the conference finals. Karlsson is the only player that comes to mind in terms of 10+ AAV with his new team; but even he went to the conference finals with the sens

Signing stars being such a pain definitely sucks but some posters justifying 10 AAV etc. for Nylander and 12 to 13 AAV for Marner and 14+ AAV for Matthews is what frustrates me a lot. If we bendover to every whim of the players there is no way to have success in the world where teams have to be cap compliant while building competitive rosters.

Yups sucks
Cuz I want these guys on the leafs.... We f***in got a first overall pick. I screamed loud as hell when lottery happened. Exciting times. Call it a curse or a conspiracy or whatever, it's def a unique thing we got going on here in Toronto.
I just like to blame bell and Rogers. They're the devil. And not the iron maiden cool type devil.

 

[LeafSteel]

Well we know they don't talk over dinner.

The "Team" Is Broken

I saw this posted by a user in a group I'm in. "Listening to Overdrive tonight it was brought up the O'Reilly could not believe that when on the road for the playoffs in previous years the leafs as a team did not go out for team dinners. Everyone ate room service or at the hotel. ROR made it...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[BallardEra]

Videos - NHL, NBA, NFL, Super Bowl, CFL, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Soccer

TSN's latest highlights and features from around the sporting world. NHL, NBA, NFL, CFL, MLB, PGA, LPGA, MLS, EPL, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, La Liga, Serie A, FIFA World Cup, Euro, ATP Tennis, WTA Tennis, Curling, Scotties, Brier, World Juniors.

www.tsn.ca

 

[notDatsyuk]

Since Nylander is going to be a UFA what we need to find out is what matters most to Nylander (or Matthews/Marner for that matter).

Playing for Toronto Vs More money elsewhere (in total). If it is money that matters to Nylander then you work on a trade.

As a GM Tre should try to work out what is the max in total Nylander could get as a UFA in total dollars.

Scenarios (max 7 year term if willy walks as a UFA).

80 million on 7 year is about 11.5 AAV; 10 AAV on 8 year term
70 million on 7 year is about 10 AAV; 8.75 AAV on 8 year term
60 million on 7 year is about 8.6 AAV; 7.5 AAV on 8 year term

Then as a GM he should take a calculated risk i.e. given the 7 year term what is the max Nylander will be offered if he walked as a UFA.

Me personally I do not see anyone offering Nylander 11.5 AAV and 10 AAV; this means Leafs can try and leverage their position that CBA allows them.

The counter I would do is 70 million on 8 year term 8.8 AAV (at MAX), front loaded contract, 80% to 90% is signing bonuses i.e. completely buyout proof contract. Protects Nylander from getting Matt Duchene treatment in the future as most of the money is guaranteed for Nylander in case of a buyout.

70 million on 8 year term is the MAX I would offer Nylander as a GM. if he is not willing to sign that then Leafs gotta give permission to his agent to talk to other teams who will be willing to pay him more than 70 million dollars and work out a trade.

Leafs do have leverage here; Leafs can force Nylander to walk as UFA and sign at max a 7 year for a long term deal screwing up another team's AAV. Treliving should most definitely use that leverage and not bend over.

All your logic requires that he never gets another contract after the 7 or 8, to make your math come out.

What if he signs a one year deal at $10M, and then with the higher cap and better stats (thanks to not playing on the second line with John Turtlevaris), signs for 8 more years at $12M?

 

[arso40]

All your logic requires that he never gets another contract after the 7 or 8, to make your math come out.

What if he signs a one year deal at $10M, and then with the higher cap and better stats (thanks to not playing on the second line with John Turtlevaris), signs for 8 more years at $12M?

Everyone is so quicc to trade nylander at 10 mil but we already gave marner over ten with him expecting a decent raise and no one wants him to go are we saying marner 4 years ago is better than nylander Now??

 

[notDatsyuk]

Agree 100%.

If Marner was currently making his legit $8.5 mil, and Nylander currently on his 6 year / $45 mil = $7.5 mil AAV there would have only been a $1 mil difference in AAV and a reasonable case because of Marner's PK and defensive work and slightly higher point production that these 2 contracts are aligned. No hard feelings by Willy,

However since the gap is a ridiculous +$4 mil due to GM incompetence of the past, then Nylander rightfully has grounds to ask for his +$10 mil also if that is the going rate to be a PPG player in Toronto.

His cap hit is $6.96M not $7.5.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Be careful, I think I may be a year or two older that tk lol

When I was a kid, they hadn't invented pigeons!

 

[notDatsyuk]

Everyone is so quicc to trade nylander at 10 mil but we already gave marner over ten with him expecting a decent raise and no one wants him to go are we saying marner 4 years ago is better than nylander Now??

I think lots of people want Marner to go, but Dubas with his NTCs made it virtually impossible.

Unfortunately Nylander is the only one who can be traded without his permission.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Dont be surprised if Nylander gets traded and finishes #3 in league scoring behind Mcdavid and Leon. The root of my frustration at times with Nylander was realizing he isnt playing to his potential. I think we are seeing 85% of Nylanders potential. He can score 50 next year, get 120 plus points if he competes hard. He got 40 real easily this past year.

 

[Mess]

His cap hit is $6.96M not $7.5.

Its off normal a little off because of the holdout, but his actual earnings are 6 years & $45 mil = $7.5 average. Willy only cares about the money not the AAV or average anyways.

 

[kb]

Its off normal a little off because of the holdout, but his actual earnings are 6 years & $45 mil = $7.5 average. Willy only cares about the money not the AAV or average anyways.

View attachment 728781

What is his actual cap hit? $6.962 million. The first season was also $6.962 also for the time he played, but it was extrapolated out to a full season hit because he missed until Dec 1st.

He did not receive $12 million the first season. He received a $2 million signing bonus, plus the prorated amount of the full season $10 million salary as he only played 54 games (it's actually prorated based on days on the roster). He did not receive a full $10 million in salary that season.


Might wanna stop posting on things you don't know a thing about. Not sure that will leave anything....

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

One thing I think that has been lost in all this talk about who signs first is the fact Nylander signed first the last time around simply because his contract was up first.

That's why Nylander was the only holdout. Because the other two got settled before it reached that point. It wasn't some calculated manoeuvring by Matthews and Marner's agents to wait until Nylander signed so they could get their clients more money.

It was simply a matter of "first in, first up".

At this point the fact Nylander hasn't signed yet makes me believe a trade is forthcoming. They have to stop the bleeding somehow. The roster needs re-balancing and they missed the opportunity to trade Marner.

Which now makes trading Nylander the quickest and easiest way out of this mess.

 

[Menzinger]

What is his actual cap hit? $6.962 million. The first season was also $6.962 also for the time he played, but it was extrapolated out to a full season hit.

He did not receive $12 million the first season. He received a $2 million signing bonus, plus the prorated amount of the full season $10 million salary as he only played 54 games (it's actually prorated based on days on the roster). He did not receive a full $10 million in salary that season.


Might wanna stop posting on things you don't know a thing about. Not sure that will leave anything....

Yeah, his first year earnings often get misidentified because of how the league requires contracts to be filed, his take home amount is different from what is on cap friendly as a result. As you say, he didn't actually earn 45 million, rather 42 mil and change (6.962x6)

 

[Dekes For Days]

are we saying marner 4 years ago is better than nylander Now??

That's not really how contracts work, but yeah actually, age 19-21 Marner through his ELC was better than prime aged Nylander over the past few years, and 21 year old Marner was better than Nylander has ever been.

Its off normal a little off because of the holdout, but his actual earnings are 6 years & $45 mil = $7.5 average.

That is false. His actual earnings are 6.96m per year. He will make 41.77m over his contract.

 

[Notsince67]

That's not really how contracts work, but yeah actually, age 19-21 Marner through his ELC was better than prime aged Nylander over the past few years, and 21 year old Marner was better than Nylander has ever been.

That is false. His actual earnings are 6.96m per year. He will make 41.77m over his contract.

His contract was 5.6 years. I get people get confused but 7mm for 5.6 years is hard to compare. Equivalent 6 year contract trues up to 7.5mm

 

[arso40]

That's not really how contracts work, but yeah actually, age 19-21 Marner through his ELC was better than prime aged Nylander over the past few years, and 21 year old Marner was better than Nylander has ever been.

That is false. His actual earnings are 6.96m per year. He will make 41.77m over his contract.

Easily disagree with you very easily and over that span when it’s really counted nylander been the better play off performer with the lesser talent around him

 

[ACC1224]

I imagine things will progress and we'll get some more information when the players come back to town for Marners wedding.

 

[Dekes For Days]

His contract was 5.6 years. I get people get confused but 7mm for 5.6 years is hard to compare. Equivalent 6 year contract trues up to 7.5mm

His contract was for 6 seasons at 6.96m cap hit, and he's making 41.77m, not 45m. Nylander has played over 91% of the possible games on his contract,, which is pretty good.

Easily disagree with you

It's not so much my opinion as it is just fact.

over that span when it’s really counted nylander been the better play off performer

Nylander has not been the better playoff performer. Nylander has outproduced Marner in 1 out of our 8 playoff series, for the record, and even in that one series where Nylander had easier situations to produce and an inflated OISH% while Marner played with two injured players who hit a playoff-leading number of posts in one round, Nylander simultaneously gave up so much more defensively that he still ended up with a worse on-ice goal differential than Marner.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

His contract was for 6 seasons at 6.96m cap hit, and he's making 41.77m, not 45m. Nylander has played over 91% of the possible games on his contract,, which is pretty good.

It's not so much my opinion as it is just fact.

Nylander has not been the better playoff performer. Nylander has outproduced Marner in 1 out of our 8 playoff series, for the record, and even in that one series where Nylander had easier situations to produce and an inflated OISH% while Marner played with two injured players who hit a playoff-leading number of posts in one round, Nylander simultaneously gave up so much more defensively that he still ended up with a worse on-ice goal differential than Marner.

Just curious, do you think Marner was better in this past year’s playoffs than Nylander? Marner got more points.

 

[Notsince67]

His contract was for 6 seasons at 6.96m cap hit, and he's making 41.77m, not 45m. Nylander has played over 91% of the possible games on his contract,, which is pretty good.

It's not so much my opinion as it is just fact.

Nylander has not been the better playoff performer. Nylander has outproduced Marner in 1 out of our 8 playoff series, for the record, and even in that one series where Nylander had easier situations to produce and an inflated OISH% while Marner played with two injured players who hit a playoff-leading number of posts in one round, Nylander simultaneously gave up so much more defensively that he still ended up with a worse on-ice goal differential than Marner.

You can say it but it isn't really true. You can't retroactively change a contract. He signed a contract that would end in 5.6 years. He didn't play for 40% of the first season. You can't really compare properly hence the 7.5.
20 bucks an hour ain't the same as 20 in 36 minutes

 

[koyvoo]

How about who perform(s) best in the playoffs relative to their individual standards and abilities or their individual regular season production?

Marner: 1.09p/g vs 0.94p/g (-14%)
Matthews: 1.13p/g vs 0.88p/g (-22%)
Nylander: 0.83p/g vs 0.80p/g (-4%)

 

[BM14]

Easily disagree with you very easily and over that span when it’s really counted nylander been the better play off performer with the lesser talent around him

Being the smartest kid in a remedial class doesn't mean you're entitled to a 43% bump in pay.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just curious, do you think Marner was better in this past year’s playoffs than Nylander? Marner got more points.

It's not just about points, but yes, Marner had a better playoffs this year.

You can say it but it isn't really true. You can't retroactively change a contract.

I agree that you can't retroactively change a contract - which is what you're attempting to do. Nylander signed a contract that covered 6 NHL seasons. Whether or not he played every single game during those 6 seasons is irrelevant. Most don't play 100% of possible games, for a variety of reasons.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

It's not just about points, but yes, Marner had a better playoffs this year.

Fair enough. I think Marner had a better series against Tampa, but thought Nylander was far better against Florida. Marner is supposed to be better, the fact that he didn’t really show up against Florida is what disappointed me.