Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[PromisedLand]

Defensive structure isn't, and wasn't a problem.
Creating depth, doesn't create more scoring. Elite players do the bulk of your scoring. I'd love more depth though, along with elite players.
It is a team game, and if there is a deal out there, that improves the team... sure.. and if there isn't, no.
Our main issue this past playoffs, was Matthew's wrist. Fix his wrist, and we are good. If the wrist is toast, any and all trades won't make a difference.

Wanting change, for change, will never be a winning strategy.

Giving into ridiculous contract demands just because is also not a winning strategy. It is a cap world; we have to respect that cap and build a winner with cap constraint.

I am not faulting Nylander, it is Dubas who effed up big time. That said, the new GM doesn't have to continue with the same trash that dubas did. There are other teams in the league that have won more than 1 round in the last 7 years, gone to conference finals, cup finals and have won cups. None of those teams had Nylander on them.

One cannot get so emotionally invested in a player where team results take a back seat. Its the logo on the front that matters more than the name on the back.

 

[Fogelhund]

Giving into ridiculous contract demands just because is also not a winning strategy. It is a cap world; we have to respect that cap and build a winner with cap constraint.

I am not faulting Nylander, it is Dubas who effed up big time. That said, the new GM doesn't have to continue with the same trash that dubas did. There are other teams in the league that have won more than 1 round in the last 7 years, gone to conference finals, cup finals and have won cups. None of those teams had Nylander on them.

One cannot get so emotionally invested in a player where team results take a back seat. Its the logo on the front that matters more than the name on the back.

Of course all that we should care about is the future success of the team. Noting, ridiculous contract demands seems to be something of a fantasy around here. Nylander's comparables are about $9.6 to $10.2 mil. We might not be able to afford that, and that's a different discussion, but that's the reality. If we could sign him to a 8 x $9.2 mil deal, that's a pretty good deal for us.

 

[mydnyte]

Do posters today even have a brain anymore. Move one of the best playmakers in the league off your number 1 PP makes sense to me

petty insults show you do not have the capacity to see that a 'playmaker' can be a negative asset if he isnt a threat to shoot and score.
we have a ton of talented shooters and that is why our PP is good, but Marner is not as important to its success as you may think.

Kutcherov and Marner basically play the exact same position on the PP, but Kutch is always a scoring threat any time he has the puck, and someone needs to stay on him because of that which opens up lanes and opportunities for Point/Stamkos, but, with Marner the defense can/will cheat pass because his shot is average at best, and he seldom uses it.

can your brain grasp that concept?

 

[leafsfan5]

Or maybe they see how Treliving spends his extra cap and don't think it matters?

You have to trust your GM to make good signings, I am sure McDavid is happy that the discount he gave went to overpaying Nurse.

I mean he did this was Dubas too, he wants every penny regardless of who is the GM. Additionally, he’s met with Treliving and is clearly on board with what the plans are, it’s why everyone is so adamant he’ll sign.

And it’s not as simple as the discount from McDavid went to Nurse. You can make the same case that the discount McDavid gave allowed them enough to ensure they offered Hyman what he wanted. All teams have some good contracts and some bad contracts.

Setting the idea of discount aside.. when using his comparables those numbers put him right around the average pay for primary production in his tier levels for centers signing their third contracts. so above 13 is guaranteed

Now you work in other factors such as two way play goalscoring etc.. if tyose bump it up at all .. any premium we think he is worth

Who are his comparables? Mackinnon signed last year for 12.6, Pastrnak signed this year for 11.25. Both at max term. You can argue Matthews is better than both, but I don’t think he’s that much better to command what he is

I'm afraid you're right. I mean, no way to know for sure obviously so maybe I'm just being paranoid but ... I'm afraid you're right.

CJ reporting it has me concerned, he’s very connected with the team and usually knows what’s going on. I’m expecting a crazy contract

 

[PromisedLand]

Of course all that we should care about is the future success of the team. Noting, ridiculous contract demands seems to be something of a fantasy around here. Nylander's comparables are about $9.6 to $10.2 mil. We might not be able to afford that, and that's a different discussion, but that's the reality. If we could sign him to a 8 x $9.2 mil deal, that's a pretty good deal for us.

I've said it before, if Nylander walks as a UFA the max deal he can sign with any other team is 7 years instead of 8 years.

What do you think Nylander at max will get as a UFA?

If one assumes it is 10.5 AAV for 7 years in total that contract is about:

10.5 x 7 = 73.5 million total

Leafs can match that 73.5 million dollar total for 8 years bringing the AAV down to about 9.2 AAV.

Leafs can also front load that contract with 80% to 90% all given in signing bonuses basically a buyout proof contract. Not many teams in the league can do that.

The question then becomes is which team in the league is going to give Nylander a 10.5 AAV 7 year deal as a UFA.

I am gonna guess that no team will give Nylander more than 9 AAV deal for 7 years basically total 63 million dollars. For a 8 year deal with the Leafs that is about 7.9 AAV.

Leafs can go 8.5 AAV for a total of 8.5 AAV x 8 = 68 million dollars; which if Nylander was to get the same total amount from another team as a UFA who can only sign Nylander for 7 years that AAV will be 9.7 AAV; I am about 99% sure there is no team out there in the league that will give Nylander a 9,7 AAV deal for a total of 68 million dollars and also front load it like Leafs can to essentially make it buyout proof.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it and not bendovver for a ridiculous demand of 10 AAV for a total of 80 million dollars; 80 million dollars for 7 years works out to be 11.5 AAV; I wonder which team is going to offer Nylander 11.5 AAV let alone 9.7 AAV scenario (total 68 million) that I discussed above.

The math is simple as far as I am concerned. Treliving should NOT budge from 8.5 AAV to 8.7 AAV. Period!

 

[notbias]

The right contract is the one that gives the "TEAM" the best chance at success.

Enough with the Dubas era bullcrap. This is a cap world; and Leafs have to do whatever it takes to give themselves a best chance. The best chance can be now or in the future.

If Leafs pay whatever Matthews, Nylander and in future Marner want; there will be nothing left for quality depth. Nylander has earned his right as a UFA to seek what he thinks he is worth. Leafs do not have to bendover to ruin their cap structure and quality depth.



But why does it have to be the same as DeBincrat? What about PLD?

Leafs can do an 8 year extension with a sign and trade if there is a team out there willing to pay Nylander a 10 AAV. Why does the option have to be to pay Nylander 10 AAV? There is 7 years worth of evidence that in the playoffs when there is less time and space and teams need goals; the so called core 4 go into shell.

Leafs not being able to afford quality depth also leads to not enough depth scoring or decent defensive structure where Leafs depth at least plays to a stalemate with their opposition.

Its a team game. Leafs have to do what is best for the TEAM

Why bring up Dubas? The current GM is known for bad UFA signings, worry about that, you sound like a bitter ex.

You can pay the stars their worth or walk away/trade them, just because you trade for depth does not make your team better. You are acting like there is a perfect formula for success.

I don't even know what your rant was about, if Nylander is worth 10 and he is the best option, pay him his 10, if you think 2 Michael Buntings are better, go and sign the two Buntings, and then you have enough left over for a Reaves.

I mean he did this was Dubas too, he wants every penny regardless of who is the GM. Additionally, he’s met with Treliving and is clearly on board with what the plans are, it’s why everyone is so adamant he’ll sign.

And it’s not as simple as the discount from McDavid went to Nurse. You can make the same case that the discount McDavid gave allowed them enough to ensure they offered Hyman what he wanted. All teams have some good contracts and some bad contracts.

Hyman is a trash signing too and short-sighted.

My whole argument is that the discounts work if the GM doesn't sign other bad contracts, Treliving has shown he is not generally good with signing good value contracts.

 

[Fogelhund]

I've said it before, if Nylander walks as a UFA the max deal he can sign with any other team is 7 years instead of 8 years.

What do you think Nylander at max will get as a UFA?

If one assumes it is 10.5 AAV for 7 years in total that contract is about:

10.5 x 7 = 73.5 million total

Leafs can match that 73.5 million dollar total for 8 years bringing the AAV down to about 9.2 AAV.

Leafs can also front load that contract with 80% to 90% all given in signing bonuses basically a buyout proof contract. Not many teams in the league can do that.

The question then becomes is which team in the league is going to give Nylander a 10.5 AAV 7 year deal as a UFA.

I am gonna guess that no team will give Nylander more than 9 AAV deal for 7 years basically total 63 million dollars. For a 8 year deal with the Leafs that is about 7.9 AAV.

Leafs can go 8.5 AAV for a total of 8.5 AAV x 8 = 68 million dollars; which if Nylander was to get the same total amount from another team as a UFA who can only sign Nylander for 7 years that AAV will be 9.7 AAV; I am about 99% sure there is no team out there in the league that will give Nylander a 9,7 AAV deal for a total of 68 million dollars and also front load it like Leafs can to essentially make it buyout proof.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it and not bendovver for a ridiculous demand of 10 AAV for a total of 80 million dollars; 80 million dollars for 7 years works out to be 11.5 AAV; I wonder which team is going to offer Nylander 11.5 AAV let alone 9.7 AAV scenario (total 68 million) that I discussed above.

The math is simple as far as I am concerned. Treliving should NOT budge from 8.5 AAV to 8.7 AAV. Period!

Except your math completely ignores comparables, and is therefore null and void. Pretending the market doesn't exist is just ignoring reality. Nylander signing in the 8's is a complete disconnect from reality, no matter how you attempt to frame or justify it.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

I've said it before, if Nylander walks as a UFA the max deal he can sign with any other team is 7 years instead of 8 years.

What do you think Nylander at max will get as a UFA?

If one assumes it is 10.5 AAV for 7 years in total that contract is about:

10.5 x 7 = 73.5 million total

Leafs can match that 73.5 million dollar total for 8 years bringing the AAV down to about 9.2 AAV.

Leafs can also front load that contract with 80% to 90% all given in signing bonuses basically a buyout proof contract. Not many teams in the league can do that.

The question then becomes is which team in the league is going to give Nylander a 10.5 AAV 7 year deal as a UFA.

I am gonna guess that no team will give Nylander more than 9 AAV deal for 7 years basically total 63 million dollars. For a 8 year deal with the Leafs that is about 7.9 AAV.

Leafs can go 8.5 AAV for a total of 8.5 AAV x 8 = 68 million dollars; which if Nylander was to get the same total amount from another team as a UFA who can only sign Nylander for 7 years that AAV will be 9.7 AAV; I am about 99% sure there is no team out there in the league that will give Nylander a 9,7 AAV deal for a total of 68 million dollars and also front load it like Leafs can to essentially make it buyout proof.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it and not bendovver for a ridiculous demand of 10 AAV for a total of 80 million dollars; 80 million dollars for 7 years works out to be 11.5 AAV; I wonder which team is going to offer Nylander 11.5 AAV let alone 9.7 AAV scenario (total 68 million) that I discussed above.

The math is simple as far as I am concerned. Treliving should NOT budge from 8.5 AAV to 8.7 AAV. Period!

I think Nylander easily gets 10.5 as a UFA.

Tavares got 11 M 5 years ago. Nylander is a better player. What's more, is that I'm pretty sure that SJ was willing to give JT even more.

 

[Gaberd2608]

Nylander is better at facilitating the puck than being a net-front guy, and he is worse than Marner/Matthews at facilitating the puck, so I think that is the biggest issue, not that he was not good enough for PP1. Also, we had one of our best PP% in the playoffs in recent memory, not even sure how this is an issue.

I'd like to see a 5F setup (maybe not with Klingberg now), but other than that, it is hard to give Nylander a meaningful role currently. It is easier without ROR.



It is weird how everyone on the team talks about how close the team is and then people just make assumptions like this based on their amazing detective skills and jumping to conclusions.

They could sign for 11 days so far...

Do you think the reports of Nylander wanting Matthew to sign first are just sensational journalism or do you think it may be actually plausable.

Everything reported suggests that Matthew is going to want the most possible money and the shortest possible term. No one knows what that means but I think if we read between the lines it is probabaly a 3 or 4 year deal between $13-14 million. On top of that Matthew will have us believe this is in the interest of the team.

Nylander while wanting to be paid, turns out to be borderline reasonable. He was pushing for $8 million last time. Imagine if Dubas signed him for $8 million x 8 years we would be in good shape today. I think Nylander on any other team would sign a $8.5-9 million x 6-8 years. On the leafs because Matthews and Marner are going to get $13+, Nylander feels he should be getting $10 million. In the context of Matthew and Marner I agree with him. In the context of our cap things are f***ed.

Imo leafs should trade all 3 and move forward. They would get a boatload of picks, players, and prospects and tons of cap space. I think they could do a retool and come out ok. Wont happen but thats what should happen imo.

 

[notbias]

Do you think the reports of Nylander wanting Matthew to sign first are just sensational journalism or do you think it may be actually plausable.

Everything reported suggests that Matthew is going to want the most possible money and the shortest possible term. No one knows what that means but I think if we read between the lines it is probabaly a 3 or 4 year deal between $13-14 million. On top of that Matthew will have us believe this is in the interest of the team.

Nylander while wanting to be paid, turns out to be borderline reasonable. He was pushing for $8 million last time. Imagine if Dubas signed him for $8 million x 8 years we would be in good shape today. I think Nylander on any other team would sign a $8.5-9 million x 6-8 years. On the leafs because Matthews and Marner are going to get $13+, Nylander feels he should be getting $10 million. In the context of Matthew and Marner I agree with him. In the context of our cap things are f***ed.

Imo leafs should trade all 3 and move forward. They would get a boatload of picks, players, and prospects and tons of cap space. I think they could do a retool and come out ok. Wont happen but thats what should happen imo.

It has also been reported Matthews will take a discount.

8x8 means he was overpaid at signing.

Your whole post is speculation, you're guessing how people feel.

Trading all three forwards sounds like a good idea, 20 more years without a series win sounds enjoyable.

 

[Fogelhund]

Everything reported suggests that Matthew is going to want the most possible money and the shortest possible term. No one knows what that means but I think if we read between the lines it is probabaly a 3 or 4 year deal between $13-14 million. On top of that Matthew will have us believe this is in the interest of the team.

There were reports that Matthews was considering a "team friendly" deal... who knows what that means.

 

[andora]

I mean he did this was Dubas too, he wants every penny regardless of who is the GM. Additionally, he’s met with Treliving and is clearly on board with what the plans are, it’s why everyone is so adamant he’ll sign.

And it’s not as simple as the discount from McDavid went to Nurse. You can make the same case that the discount McDavid gave allowed them enough to ensure they offered Hyman what he wanted. All teams have some good contracts and some bad contracts.


Who are his comparables? Mackinnon signed last year for 12.6, Pastrnak signed this year for 11.25. Both at max term. You can argue Matthews is better than both, but I don’t think he’s that much better to command what he is


CJ reporting it has me concerned, he’s very connected with the team and usually knows what’s going on. I’m expecting a crazy contract

I am quoting what i posted in the matthews thread

Just to throw this out there for anyone interested - and utilizing what has come up as a main factor in contracts is Primary points (goals and primary assists) - and also recognizing that many are 'meh' on the /60 stuff. This utilizes his actualy Ice time 5on5 during his 2nd contract and his actual primary points - nothing /60.

This is Matthews 3rd contract - so can we compare him to other prominent Centers and their third contracts, all relative to cap hits / cap %s.. So if we take a list of these players (but let's keep it to a minimum of that they signed atleast 5 years on their 3rd deals):
Sidney Crosby
Jason Spezza
Evgeni Malkin
Nathan Mackinnon
Jonathan Toews
Steven Stamkos
Evgeny Kuznetsov
Ryan Getzlaf
Henrik Zetterberg (both wing/center but i added him)
Anze Kopitar
Logan Couture
Dylan Larkin
Pierre-Luc Dubois
Eric Staal
Niklas Backstrom

so over the course of THEIR 2ND CONTRACTS versus what their teams signed them for on their 3rd contracts as star players. this group of players ON AVERAGE produced the following numbers and the teams paid them moving forward:
Primary points per game - 0.46
Average CAP HIT per primary point dollars - $237,747
Average CAP HIT % per primary point (based on the cap when they signed their 3rd contracts - 0.28% cap hit per primary point

Auston Matthews what he has done in his 2nd contract:
Primary points per game - 0.68
Average CAP HIT per primary point dollars - YET TO BE DETERMINED

So basically he produced 34% more than the average primary points production of these stars. if we were to take Auston's average of .68 primary points per game and project that into an 82 game schedule (you should always project your players to play 82 games), based on the average dollar per primary point these 15 stars were paid on their 3rd contracts you would end up with:

0.68 (auston's post ELC primary point / game) * 82 games THEN x $237,747 (average of what teams paid these 15 stars per primary point on 3rd contract =$13,190,151.50
on a 5 year deal that would be $65,950,608.00. it would tie him for the 3rd lowest (cheapest) cap hit % per primary point out of these 16 names, only more expensive than Couture and Spezza, and equal to Crosby. He has the highest real production OVER the average by 34% (how ironic). so if we did a PDO type stat, adding up these two factors - Cap hit % per primary point & Primary point production % over/under the average - Auston is at 34%, 1 % higher than Crosby

so as a BASE, based on what has been discussed, Primary point production at 5on5 - Auston looks to be 13.2 million / season. but then having what he accomplished, outproducing everyone on that list, all the big guys - are we expecting him to be paid on the average? what non production value gets added in? i am fairly certain my math is correct, my method may be weird, but i wanted to see if i could show a DIFFERENT way than Dekes does sometimes

 

[notbias]

I think Nylander easily gets 10.5 as a UFA.

Tavares got 11 M 5 years ago. Nylander is a better player. What's more, is that I'm pretty sure that SJ was willing to give JT even more.

5 years ago has nothing to do with it, just CH%, which hasn't changed much.

Also, Tavares has a better history than Nylander at the time of signing, not sure he is a better player entering UFA.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've said it before, if Nylander walks as a UFA the max deal he can sign with any other team is 7 years instead of 8 years.

What do you think Nylander at max will get as a UFA?

If one assumes it is 10.5 AAV for 7 years in total that contract is about:

10.5 x 7 = 73.5 million total

Leafs can match that 73.5 million dollar total for 8 years bringing the AAV down to about 9.2 AAV.

Leafs can also front load that contract with 80% to 90% all given in signing bonuses basically a buyout proof contract. Not many teams in the league can do that.

The question then becomes is which team in the league is going to give Nylander a 10.5 AAV 7 year deal as a UFA.

I am gonna guess that no team will give Nylander more than 9 AAV deal for 7 years basically total 63 million dollars. For a 8 year deal with the Leafs that is about 7.9 AAV.

Leafs can go 8.5 AAV for a total of 8.5 AAV x 8 = 68 million dollars; which if Nylander was to get the same total amount from another team as a UFA who can only sign Nylander for 7 years that AAV will be 9.7 AAV; I am about 99% sure there is no team out there in the league that will give Nylander a 9,7 AAV deal for a total of 68 million dollars and also front load it like Leafs can to essentially make it buyout proof.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it and not bendovver for a ridiculous demand of 10 AAV for a total of 80 million dollars; 80 million dollars for 7 years works out to be 11.5 AAV; I wonder which team is going to offer Nylander 11.5 AAV let alone 9.7 AAV scenario (total 68 million) that I discussed above.

The math is simple as far as I am concerned. Treliving should NOT budge from 8.5 AAV to 8.7 AAV. Period!

All this is based on the premise that a 7 year contract and an 8 year contract are equivalent. Maybe that's your idea of "simple" math, but it's not mine.

 

[Gabriel426]

If I am the Leafs, I will use 17% on 93mil cap as McD’s potential contract. That’s 15.81mil. And when McD signed his current deal, he was about 20% more than the highest contract at that time. Thus the highest amount any players should get is really 12.648mil. Which is quite close to what Mack got.
That’s the number that AM should be getting not 13mil or 14mil.

 

[Notsince67]

Do you think the reports of Nylander wanting Matthew to sign first are just sensational journalism or do you think it may be actually plausable.

Everything reported suggests that Matthew is going to want the most possible money and the shortest possible term. No one knows what that means but I think if we read between the lines it is probabaly a 3 or 4 year deal between $13-14 million. On top of that Matthew will have us believe this is in the interest of the team.

Nylander while wanting to be paid, turns out to be borderline reasonable. He was pushing for $8 million last time. Imagine if Dubas signed him for $8 million x 8 years we would be in good shape today. I think Nylander on any other team would sign a $8.5-9 million x 6-8 years. On the leafs because Matthews and Marner are going to get $13+, Nylander feels he should be getting $10 million. In the context of Matthew and Marner I agree with him. In the context of our cap things are f***ed.

Imo leafs should trade all 3 and move forward. They would get a boatload of picks, players, and prospects and tons of cap space. I think they could do a retool and come out ok. Wont happen but thats what should happen imo.

In my opinion the NHL should be forced to allow the leafs to force all 3 into the ECHL. No NMC enforced and no waiver rules. This is just because that is my opinion and I thought it would be helpful to people if I posted it.

 

[notdoneyet]

petty insults show you do not have the capacity to see that a 'playmaker' can be a negative asset if he isnt a threat to shoot and score.
we have a ton of talented shooters and that is why our PP is good, but Marner is not as important to its success as you may think.

Kutcherov and Marner basically play the exact same position on the PP, but Kutch is always a scoring threat any time he has the puck, and someone needs to stay on him because of that which opens up lanes and opportunities for Point/Stamkos, but, with Marner the defense can/will cheat pass because his shot is average at best, and he seldom uses it.

can your brain grasp that concept?

Marners job on the pp is to use his IQ to get the puck to the big boys. Marner is a 30 goal

petty insults show you do not have the capacity to see that a 'playmaker' can be a negative asset if he isnt a threat to shoot and score.
we have a ton of talented shooters and that is why our PP is good, but Marner is not as important to its success as you may think.

Kutcherov and Marner basically play the exact same position on the PP, but Kutch is always a scoring threat any time he has the puck, and someone needs to stay on him because of that which opens up lanes and opportunities for Point/Stamkos, but, with Marner the defense can/will cheat pass because his shot is average at best, and he seldom uses it.

can your brain grasp that concept?

marner has a role on the PP and that is to use his IQ to find the big boys to put the puck in the net.
Marner with no shot is a 35 goal scorer while willy who is supposedly a better scorer has only a 40 goal season high. As much as willy fanboys focus their brain on trying to force feed other posters that he is
On the same level as marner is ludicrous at best.
Anybody with a brain would never take marner off the first PP unit

 

[mjd1001]

For everything people are saying in support of AM and WM or against what they are afraid they will be getting paid....there is somewhat of a middle ground.

It can be true that BOTH they will be getting overpaid AND that signing them for contacts that are 'too high' is still the best way for the Leafs to get deep (or all the way) in the playoffs.

Matthews may be all about the money. Nylander also. Matthews may not be a good leader. Nylander may have his stats inflated becasue of the team he plays on. All those things can be true and STILL it can also be true they can be good enough to make it to and possibly win the cup in the next 2-3 years.

 

[ACC1224]

petty insults show you do not have the capacity to see that a 'playmaker' can be a negative asset if he isnt a threat to shoot and score.
we have a ton of talented shooters and that is why our PP is good, but Marner is not as important to its success as you may think.

Kutcherov and Marner basically play the exact same position on the PP, but Kutch is always a scoring threat any time he has the puck, and someone needs to stay on him because of that which opens up lanes and opportunities for Point/Stamkos, but, with Marner the defense can/will cheat pass because his shot is average at best, and he seldom uses it.

can your brain grasp that concept?

PP was ranked 2nd last year and 1st the year before and they should remove the PP QB because he's a negative asset?
I get the irrational Marner hate some have but this one is a little whacked.

 

[PromisedLand]

Why bring up Dubas? The current GM is known for bad UFA signings, worry about that, you sound like a bitter ex.

You can pay the stars their worth or walk away/trade them, just because you trade for depth does not make your team better. You are acting like there is a perfect formula for success.

I don't even know what your rant was about, if Nylander is worth 10 and he is the best option, pay him his 10, if you think 2 Michael Buntings are better, go and sign the two Buntings, and then you have enough left over for a Reaves.

I bring up Dubas because he is the one that created the cap hell where Nylander as reported is saying that he wants to be paid in the same neighbourhood of Matthews and Marner. I am sick of Dubas fans parroting the same BS philosophies of "we can and we will" garbage. Its a cap world it matters!

LOL depth definitely makes teh team better. The stars are not "worth it" if they fail to show up in the post season while making lion's share of the cap. It matters.

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS matter more than so called "stars"

Except your math completely ignores comparables, and is therefore null and void. Pretending the market doesn't exist is just ignoring reality. Nylander signing in the 8's is a complete disconnect from reality, no matter how you attempt to frame or justify it.

I don't think using "comparables" is the right way of going about. In the end Nylander is going to sign a "total" amount one way or another. If he decides to sign long term he will be locked into that total amount. And that contract is going to be either 8 year term or 7 year term if he signs long term. Total amount earned matters in the end, and how quickly can he get that total amount in his hand also matters. Nylander signing in the 8 is a disconnect probably for you, not for me. I do not have to convince you of anything; I am just laying out the obvious; you can take it or leave it.

I think Nylander easily gets 10.5 as a UFA.

Tavares got 11 M 5 years ago. Nylander is a better player. What's more, is that I'm pretty sure that SJ was willing to give JT even more.

Tavares was a #1 pick overall, was a 1C when he signed that deal. I really do not think Nylander is going to be paid 10.5 AAV in the UFA market; that is serious overpayment. Nylander's stats benefit from playing behind Matthews-Marner where he doesn't face other team's top defensive pair and got premium #1PP minutes.

For 10.5 AAV Nylander would be expected to be the #1 winger for the team and drive offense while facing oppositions' top defensive pair.

I really don't think Nylander will get 10.5 AAV as a UFA.

Hypothetically even if I agree that is a total of 73.5 million dollas and for the Leafs that is about 9.2 AAV which is quite a bit.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it especially when it comes to front loading the contract with 80% to 90% in signing bonuses and not budge at all from the mid to high 8 million dollar AAV that has been rumoured.

All this is based on the premise that a 7 year contract and an 8 year contract are equivalent. Maybe that's your idea of "simple" math, but it's not mine.

what about the total amount paid out? Front loading of the contract? 80% to 90% of it in signing bonuses -> buyout proof contract so that Nylander if he gets Matt Duchene treatment in future his finances will be protected.

Does that count?

LOL 7 yr not the same as 8 yr LOL. get outta here.

 

[Notsince67]

PP was ranked 2nd last year and 1st the year before and they should remove the PP QB because he's a negative asset?
I get the irrational Marner hate some have but this one is a little whacked.

Yeah but is the most expensive PP in the league. It's Marners fault they aren't doing better than #1 or #2

 

[Gary Nylund]

what about the total amount paid out? Front loading of the contract? 80% to 90% of it in signing bonuses -> buyout proof contract so that Nylander if he gets Matt Duchene treatment in future his finances will be protected.

Does that count?

LOL 7 yr not the same as 8 yr LOL. get outta here.

If you understand they're not the same, that's great. Would be cool if that understanding was reflected in your post (it wasn't).

 

[Golden_Jet]

I bring up Dubas because he is the one that created the cap hell where Nylander as reported is saying that he wants to be paid in the same neighbourhood of Matthews and Marner. I am sick of Dubas fans parroting the same BS philosophies of "we can and we will" garbage. Its a cap world it matters!

LOL depth definitely makes teh team better. The stars are not "worth it" if they fail to show up in the post season while making lion's share of the cap. It matters.

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS matter more than so called "stars"



I don't think using "comparables" is the right way of going about. In the end Nylander is going to sign a "total" amount one way or another. If he decides to sign long term he will be locked into that total amount. And that contract is going to be either 8 year term or 7 year term if he signs long term. Total amount earned matters in the end, and how quickly can he get that total amount in his hand also matters. Nylander signing in the 8 is a disconnect probably for you, not for me. I do not have to convince you of anything; I am just laying out the obvious; you can take it or leave it.



Tavares was a #1 pick overall, was a 1C when he signed that deal. I really do not think Nylander is going to be paid 10.5 AAV in the UFA market; that is serious overpayment. Nylander's stats benefit from playing behind Matthews-Marner where he doesn't face other team's top defensive pair and got premium #1PP minutes.

For 10.5 AAV Nylander would be expected to be the #1 winger for the team and drive offense while facing oppositions' top defensive pair.

I really don't think Nylander will get 10.5 AAV as a UFA.

Hypothetically even if I agree that is a total of 73.5 million dollas and for the Leafs that is about 9.2 AAV which is quite a bit.

Leafs have leverage here and they should use it especially when it comes to front loading the contract with 80% to 90% in signing bonuses and not budge at all from the mid to high 8 million dollar AAV that has been rumoured.



what about the total amount paid out? Front loading of the contract? 80% to 90% of it in signing bonuses -> buyout proof contract so that Nylander if he gets Matt Duchene treatment in future his finances will be protected.

Does that count?

LOL 7 yr not the same as 8 yr LOL. get outta here.

Well your 7 year and 8 year examples, leave out what he would get, in his eighth year if he signed a 7 year somewhere else.
Would that number be 5 or 6 million on top of what he got in the 7 year deal.?

 

[Racer88]

Of course all that we should care about is the future success of the team. Noting, ridiculous contract demands seems to be something of a fantasy around here. Nylander's comparables are about $9.6 to $10.2 mil. We might not be able to afford that, and that's a different discussion, but that's the reality. If we could sign him to a 8 x $9.2 mil deal, that's a pretty good deal for us.

Individual contracts of our expensive core are not the problem, it’s having 4 of them and that’s all on Dubas. How we get past that and fix it is the 11 million dollar question

 

[Notsince67]

Leafs need to cut a 3 year deal with Willy and Matthews. They might be willing to take less before the big Salary cap bump. Push the issue down the road and extend the window.