Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Sypher04]

give me a break with this skeptical nonsense. Insiders are insiders for a reason. Most of them are very well connected to many of the teams. Are there a few instances where they are wrong or they speculate for clicks? For sure, but for the most part things that are out there aren’t just made up. People involved in the situation are putting it out there.

You don’t need to try and sell any of us on skepticism or conspiracy theories about how the media knows nothing. Agents, Players and GM’s all use insiders.

None of the small circle of actual trusted insiders are saying what you said. Additionally, generally speaking the media doesn’t know what they are talking about and I stand by that.

People also take what “insiders” say as speculation and parrot it as fact. That isn’t on the “insiders” per se, but they know what will happen generally and they say it anyway. At best it’s irresponsible

My main point is everyone here seems to be in all too big of a hurry to believe the slightest bit of negative talking points out there about our guys, regardless of whether it’s report or rumour or speculation with little to no critical thinking

 

[al secord]

Is there even 1 single quote from any of these players?
Christ the usuals are weeping about what Marner is looking for and he still has two years left.

What PAUL is looking for.

 

[ULF_55]

Not necessarily, how many of them left because they wanted to? How many of them were forced out. The Leafs could have signed Sundin to an extension, he would have signed it, they chose not to.

Horton was traded
sitter was traded
Gilmour came back and got injured then retired
Mahovlich was traded
Kessel was traded
Phanuef was traded
Kadri was traded
Hyman let go for free

I think you should rephrase it to Management will ship out the star players when the relationship is most tense. All those players wanted to be with the organization for their careers and shit went south and we moved on from them.

"and we moved on from then."
As we will move on from the current star players.

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander should just wait it out.

He doesn't need the money.

In the meantime this thread is seriously entertaining, and great for sitting down to chat with Rusty.

He definitely can. It's the biggest negotiation chip he has.

That said I do think Gross is potentially overestimating what Nylander would get in free agency - especially if he decides to be picky where he ends up and I suspect it'll ultimately cost Willy a bit of change.

Though I also have little doubt Nylander will end up with the most favorable third contract compared to the rest of the "big three" regardless of where he ends up. Which is why I do hope they find that compromise to keep him

 

[ULF_55]

Internal comparable. No chance Marner looks for what he did if Matthews doesn’t sign his deal first.

I mean the current iteration of signings.

marner will be signing after Matthews signs, unless Matthews doesn't sign.

 

[ULF_55]

Thats where im nit agree... if we only taking offensivly yes... but offensive is not everything... comparimg marner and nylander its like comparing crosby to kessel... why crosby won the conne smythe with 6 goal and 19 points when kessel had 10 goal and 22 points? Its all the detail crosby doing shift after shift by :

-Being the 1st guy in drfensive zone to help his d
- with his defensive game
-by being the last guy moving out defensive zone to still there to avoid as much he can to put his d in trouble.
- his combativity in the defensive end

Its kind of things 98% fans just never consider but every organisation, yes


Do you realize than the biggest difference of ice time is all defensive situation marner had been playing and nylander just not?

So the highest paid shutdown line of all time?

I'd rather pay a Kampf to be on the shutdown line not marner and Matthews.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean the current iteration of signings.

marner will be signing after Matthews signs, unless Matthews doesn't sign.

Yes that’s correct. Matthews should sign after Nylander just like Matthews should have signed after Marner.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Bottoming out is just a blip, like rising to the top.

Matthews and marner are going to leave the team, and odds are it won't be in great shape when they do.

Mahovlich left
Horton left
Davey left
Sittler left
Gilmour left
Sundin left

They all leave.

Are you posting this for me?

Am I arguing that no one leaves?


What is up with your lessons, wisdom, and tone?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thats where im nit agree... if we only taking offensivly yes... but offensive is not everything... comparimg marner and nylander its like comparing crosby to kessel... why crosby won the conne smythe with 6 goal and 19 points when kessel had 10 goal and 22 points? Its all the detail crosby doing shift after shift by :

-Being the 1st guy in drfensive zone to help his d
- with his defensive game
-by being the last guy moving out defensive zone to still there to avoid as much he can to put his d in trouble.
- his combativity in the defensive end

Its kind of things 98% fans just never consider but every organisation, yes

Marner is better than Nylander on both sides of the puck, that's true in both the regular season and in the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that the gap between M&M and Nylander in the playoffs is smaller in the playoffs during the regular season. Maybe M&M's defence doesn't drop off in the playoffs, not sure how to measure that but the offence does for sure.

And yet on the flip side, we have constant postings of anger, projection, blame and negativity. It will get to anyone at some point.

The Leafs playing like crap in key games is the sort of thing that gets to me sometimes, people posting stuff on the net is nothing. But if reading posts here is too stressful for some people, they should do something else with their time, simple.

I think our top 6 with Knies and Bertuzzi is better than ROR and Bunting. Both ROR and Bunting were demoted from the top 6 several times. Tavares + ROR was the worst experiment i've ever seen.

We had Knies in the last playoffs as well so it comes down to Domi&Bertuzzi vs ROR&Bunting. Plus of course the rest of the forwards, losing Acciari doesn't help either.

Yes that’s correct. Matthews should sign after Nylander just like Matthews should have signed after Marner.

Still waiting for you to explain why. That seems to be your schtick, throwing out random opinions as if they were facts and when asked to explain yourself ... crickets.

 

[123offtheglass]

In this market 10m+ is just ridiculous given what he's done & he really shouldn't be making 9.5x8 like Tkachuk when he signed. Yes the cap is going to rise again but it's not like there was that much uncertainty that it would rise for majority term for the comparable players' recent long term deals.

His cap percentage at the time of signing should be something between Fiala & a little more than Barzal. Timo's 8.7 should be close.

 

[123offtheglass]

Respect to Willy though if the other core players aren't taking any team discount it doesn't make sense to buy into. At least Rielly kind of did that recently & then showed a lot of leadership in the playoffs.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

In this market 10m+ is just ridiculous given what he's done & he really shouldn't be making 9.5x8 like Tkachuk when he signed. Yes the cap is going to rise again but it's not like there was that much uncertainty that it would rise for majority term for the comparable players' recent long term deals.

His cap percentage at the time of signing should be something between Fiala & a little more than Barzal. Timo's 8.7 should be close.

Well, yes. Absolutely.

There are 2 or 3 propagandists here that argue otherwise, but the entire consensus of EVERY hockey fan spanning the universe says Nylander is worth approximately what you wrote above.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Now change it to regular season not playoffs.

You’ll see Bunting-Mathew’s-Nylander with the most minutes together.
TBH I thought you would have realized that, watching the games.
So now that we solved that, can you now answer how many goals they got together?

Ah - should I ask why you posted the link to playoffs?

So if you sort it, you could have answered your own question. So 30, but that's a bit deceiving as Bunting was just about their only LW.

Matthews spent more time with Marner on the whole.

Interesting - that pretty clearly shows that Nylander with Matthews and Bunting seems to be the best line, and anyone with Tavares is not so good (Marner and then Nylander being the best with him).

Looking at just Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares playing with various other people on LW:

Matthews + Marner: 442.7 minutes, 26 goals for, 19 against
Tavares + Marner: 399.4 minutes, 23 for, 12 against
Matthews + Nylander: 390.0 minutes, 31 for, 10 against
Tavares + Nylander: 281.4 minutes, 12 for 14 against


Nylander playing with Tavares as his center: 281.4 minutes, 12 goals for and 14 against.
Nylander playing with Matthews as his center: 399.0 minutes, 31 for and 10 against.
Nylander playing with anyone else as his center: 111.0 minutes, 7 for and 7 against.

Tavares playing with neither Marner or Nylander: 27.7 minutes 0 for and 3 against.

 

[ULF_55]

Are you posting this for me?

Am I arguing that no one leaves?


What is up with your lessons, wisdom, and tone?

I'm saying they will bottom out again, and playerx will be moving on, and that it's no different than other times, players move the team bottoms out and they get the next great hopes.

 

[ULF_55]

Well, yes. Absolutely.

There are 2 or 3 propagandists here that argue otherwise, but the entire consensus of EVERY hockey fan spanning the universe says Nylander is worth approximately what you wrote above.

Yes, easy is to just use Meier's Cap % against projected cap, and it comes out to about 9.2mm.

Meier's included a year of RFA, Nylander's will be all UFA.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes that’s correct. Matthews should sign after Nylander just like Matthews should have signed after Marner.

Why after Nylander though?

Their contracts should have nothing to do with each other.

Now if Nylander wants to take less for any reason that's up to him.

 

[thusk]

So the highest paid shutdown line of all time?

I'd rather pay a Kampf to be on the shutdown line not marner and Matthews.

Kampf is pay 2,5M only for his defensive ability, with just his offensive skill, he would be at minimum salary or at best 1M...so probably 1,5M is spend only for his defensive ability...if we use that same 1,5M for marner defensive ability

Remove 1,5M of marner salary, we are at 9,4M for the 4th best offensive winger last 3 season just for his offensive ability... same range of gaudreau, Tkachuk, kucherov, ovechkin, rantanen ... thats pretty fair sorry

Marner is better than Nylander on both sides of the puck, that's true in both the regular season and in the playoffs but that doesn't change the fact that the gap between M&M and Nylander in the playoffs is smaller in the playoffs during the regular season. Maybe M&M's defence doesn't drop off in the playoffs, not sure how to measure that but the offence does for sure.


The Leafs playing like crap in key games is the sort of thing that gets to me sometimes, people posting stuff on the net is nothing. But if reading posts here is too stressful for some people, they should do something else with their time, simple.


We had Knies in the last playoffs as well so it comes down to Domi&Bertuzzi vs ROR&Bunting. Plus of course the rest of the forwards, losing Acciari doesn't help either.


Still waiting for you to explain why. That seems to be your schtick, throwing out random opinions as if they were facts and when asked to explain yourself ... crickets.

Defensive impact i will try to help you...

Nylander had been on the ice for 8 of 15 tampa goal 5v5 tampa goal ( i removed the empty net goal) 6 of those goal could be easily avoid by nylander... lack of defensive commitment, cheating whatever...

Marner allowed only 1 goal of 15 goal (7%) and pratically shutdown completly kucherov line

Last season 4 goal against but still outplayed kucherov line

He allowed 1 5v5 goal against mtl...4 against florida ( 1 he was just enter on a line change and never had time to just reach leafs zone so the real number should be 3)

So last 3 year, we can say marner had been on the ice for 9 goal against him playing against 1st opposite line game after game... nylander only vs tampa this season is at 8... its not a perfect stats for sure but still giving you a picture of it...

 

[Stephen]

My main point is everyone here seems to be in all too big of a hurry to believe the slightest bit of negative talking points out there about our guys, regardless of whether it’s report or rumour or speculation with little to no critical thinking

I would attribute the negativity associated with our star player negotiations to the fact that they aren't perceived as solid, trusted partners of the organization the way a Patrice Bergeron or a Sidney Crosby are for their teams.

 

[tuckerintensity]

The media needs to give it a rest already with all their speculation shared under the guise of reporting. They do not know anything concrete at all but what they do know is the discussion is top of mind and sells so they better have some juice. You all should be highly highly skeptical of anything you read claiming to know what’s happening in their negotiations, even from sources considered generally trusted. We’re a cash cow for these people, nothing more.

It's insane how much it's talked about with zero information... and how much this place takes it as gospel.

 

[Gabriel426]

Kampf is pay 2,5M only for his defensive ability, with just his offensive skill, he would be at minimum salary or at best 1M...so probably 1,5M is spend only for his defensive ability...if we use that same 1,5M for marner defensive ability

Remove 1,5M of marner salary, we are at 9,4M for the 4th best offensive winger last 3 season just for his offensive ability... same range of gaudreau, Tkachuk, kucherov, ovechkin, rantanen ... thats pretty fair sorry

What if Kampf is overpaid by 1mil?

Thats a pretty poor way to use one person salary to justify another.

I think MM is playing to his contract now but certainly he was not worth his contract when he signed. Gaudreau, Tkachuk and others didn't sign their deals till last season. Rantanen signed after MM. Honestly, if MM was signed at 9.5mil, I have a strong feeling Rantanen will be sign around 9mil.

 

[thusk]

What if Kampf is overpaid by 1mil?

Thats a pretty poor way to use one person salary to justify another.

I think MM is playing to his contract now but certainly he was not worth his contract when he signed. Gaudreau, Tkachuk and others didn't sign their deals till last season. Rantanen signed after MM. Honestly, if MM was signed at 9.5mil, I have a strong feeling Rantanen will be sign around 9mil.

Where did you read kampf is overpaid?

I said kampf is paid 2,5M for pratically only his defensive skill... with only his offensive ability, his actual value would be around 1M but if you adding his defensive, thats raising at 2,5M and he deserve it...

 

[123offtheglass]

Well, yes. Absolutely.

There are 2 or 3 propagandists here that argue otherwise, but the entire consensus of EVERY hockey fan spanning the universe says Nylander is worth approximately what you wrote above.

I like the consensus

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm saying they will bottom out again, and playerx will be moving on, and that it's no different than other times, players move the team bottoms out and they get the next great hopes.

...and so this relates to right now and Nylander why?

Are you saying empty the cupboard as much as you can, keep "the band together", let them play out their contracts/fade away, let the team have no futures, and then start from scratch?

If that is true then I don't want what you want. I don't want TOR to be medium-level good. This top heavy with forwards architecture doesn't lead to success from what I've seen. I don't think extending everyone and then waste first round picks is doing much. The last thing we all need to hope for is winning a lottery every 10 years.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If the narrative regarding 34 is actually along the lines of you offerred me 13.7 for 5 yrs but if the cap goes up I wanna be making 14.7+ in 3 yrs sooo, Im just gonna wait til you give me more now, he is quickly losing me as someone who wants to root for him.

Thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, I think both players are wanting to extract the most amount of money they can as possible from whatever team they play for. You are correct, it does make it hard to root for any of these guys at times. If rumours are true and Tavares had a $13M offer from another team when he signed here, he must be disappointed with what is happening right now.

I fail to see how he can be looking at this and thinking his dream to win a cup here still remains a possibility.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ah - should I ask why you posted the link to playoffs?

So if you sort it, you could have answered your own question. So 30, but that's a bit deceiving as Bunting was just about their only LW.

Matthews spent more time with Marner on the whole.

Interesting - that pretty clearly shows that Nylander with Matthews and Bunting seems to be the best line, and anyone with Tavares is not so good (Marner and then Nylander being the best with him).

Looking at just Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares playing with various other people on LW:

Matthews + Marner: 442.7 minutes, 26 goals for, 19 against
Tavares + Marner: 399.4 minutes, 23 for, 12 against
Matthews + Nylander: 390.0 minutes, 31 for, 10 against
Tavares + Nylander: 281.4 minutes, 12 for 14 against


Nylander playing with Tavares as his center: 281.4 minutes, 12 goals for and 14 against.
Nylander playing with Matthews as his center: 399.0 minutes, 31 for and 10 against.
Nylander playing with anyone else as his center: 111.0 minutes, 7 for and 7 against.

Tavares playing with neither Marner or Nylander: 27.7 minutes 0 for and 3 against.

Fault of the web page, it defaults to main page, when sending link, should have mentioned it really, just forgot.
But handy page for sure.