Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[notDatsyuk]

I suppose there are all kinds of precedents both camps will present for what they believe Nylander is worth.

I can tell you this much, I don't hold him in such high regard as he holds himself. I see him as the poster child for everything wrong with this team. Taking advantage of Dubas his first year on the job, while stealing the thunder away from the Tavares signing, left a bad taste in my mouth.

At the end of the day, he's a winger, and not even the best one on the team.

Trade him.

"Taking advantage of Dubas his first year on the job"? He's the one of the four who did that the least! Tavares and Marner each did a much worse (or better, depending on how you look at it) job of taking advantage of Dubas.

If he signs for under $9.5M he'll still be the least overpaid of the four.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why would he?

If he settles for a discount and the others don’t, the team saves a marginal ~1m.

I like what Nylander’s doing. It puts pressure on Matthews to lead by example and define the team’s culture moving forward. He’s the franchise player, so set the example and take a discount. The others will follow and the combined savings will be significant.

It’s all on Matthews right now.

I doubt thats what he’s doing though. He’s more than likely set an early signing price and will stick to it.

"Taking advantage of Dubas his first year on the job"? He's the one of the four who did that the least! Tavares and Marner each did a much worse (or better, depending on how you look at it) job of taking advantage of Dubas.

If he signs for under $9.5M he'll still be the least overpaid of the four.

He sat out til Christmas and got a full year salary.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They just paid Marner his bonus.

So he's only owed league minimum this year. $12M for the next two years of Marner is a great deal. If I remember correctly, Nylander is only owed $2.5M now for this year.

I don't think the Leafs will have any trouble trading either of these guys.

In terms of best player, I still have Nylander as the team's fifth best player. Marner and Matthews are indisputably better. And Tavares gets just the same amount of points and goals while playing a more important position (the problem with Tavares is his contract). Rielly is a top defenseman and holds more value both in terms of merit and entitlement.

That leaves Nylander.

They should just trade Nylander to SJ for a 50% retained Karlsson. A little wheeling and dealing and they could have got Karlsson for the same cap cost, or less, as Klingberg. Klingberg is just Karlsson lite anyway - all the same horrible bad defense without the "oh my god" offense.

WIth big risks come big rewards.

If you don't think the team will have any trouble trading Marner, you don't understand how an NTC works.

Matthews is better. Marner a bit so (but not worth the difference in cap). Tavares gets half his goals and points on the PP - Willy is a much better player, as is clearly shown if you look at even strength. Rielly is our best defenceman and as such may have more value, but in terms of 'better player', probably not.

Karlsson? You want to make the team worse at both offence and defence to save a few bucks, or just to get rid of the guy you don't like?

 

[notDatsyuk]

In light of this whole "who signs first" thing, I just remember that Matthews signed very shortly after Nylander did the last time too.

I'm not an expert.

So I don't know what's fair and what's not. Marner plays pk, and averages over a ppg, while Nylander doesn't. Is that worth $2M, or $4M, more a year?

I don't know.

What I do know is that Nylander held out until literally the last minute first time around. While Marner didn't get the chance to hold out (we all know he would have) Marner was even more blasphemous by approaching other teams in attempt to solicit an offer sheet. And they did this to a young rookie GM just new on the job.

They're not team players.

Nylander was first. He was the ringleader. He's the one leading the charge again.

If the Leafs want to make a statement, they should seriously consider trading him.

Re-balance both the payroll and roster construction.

Nylander wasn't first, he was second. Tavares was the 'ringleader', and Willy was the only one who didn't get overpaid. He held out to the last minute, and still didn't get overpaid the way the others did.

He's not "leading the charge again". Matthews said he would give a discount to help the team, and Willy said he would if Matty did. Matthews should be "leading the charge" by signing at a 'discount', but the rumour is that he wants to wait for Willy to go first.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If you don't think the team will have any trouble trading Marner, you don't understand how an NTC works.

Matthews is better. Marner a bit so (but not worth the difference in cap). Tavares gets half his goals and points on the PP - Willy is a much better player, as is clearly shown if you look at even strength. Rielly is our best defenceman and as such may have more value, but in terms of 'better player', probably not.

Karlsson? You want to make the team worse at both offence and defence to save a few bucks, or just to get rid of the guy you don't like?

I would love to get rid of the guy I don't like.

Sadly Dubas has emptied the prospect pool with only McCabe/Lafferty to show for it.

If Nylander is better then perhaps TOR could get assets like draft picks/prospects in return. Yes they will lose the trade, but the franchise will live on into the future.

 

[thusk]

Kind of funny that people highlight Nylander for a play he tried to finesse as the definition of the player, and yet marner's complete no-show game 3 gets swept away (by some "fans").

marner, Matthews, Tavares combine for 1 goal against Florida, but highlight his points total from a previous round as an indicator he's good in the playoffs. The Montreal series where marner and Matthews scored a combined 1 goal gets blamed on going face to face against Price, who Nylander beat 5 times.

He was good game 1 to 4 vs habs

Game 5-6-7 when its matter, sorry nylander was not better than marner/matthews

He had 3 pts...
Pts #1 was on pp where he missed a pass from circle and finish his road on the oppisite side on simmonds stick and watched his teammate doing everything and was the only leafs player without any impact on that goal

His second pts he skate from his blue line to middle red line and made a pass pratically out of reach to muzzin on the opposite side... thats it

His goal came when leafs was already eliminated..

He did nothing game 5-6-7

Vs florida what nylander really did game 1 to 3?

Last season game 1 to 4 he did nothing

This season vs tampa was his worst serie ever , leafs would be a better without him in the line up in that one...

 

[ULF_55]

I would love to get rid of the guy I don't like.

Sadly Dubas has emptied the prospect pool with only McCabe/Lafferty to show for it.

If Nylander is better then perhaps TOR could get assets like draft picks/prospects in return. Yes they will lose the trade, but the franchise will live on into the future.

Leafs will live on if they move Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, ...

There isn't a single player on the Leafs team that will save or kill the franchise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why would he?

If he settles for a discount and the others don’t, the team saves a marginal ~1m.

I like what Nylander’s doing. It puts pressure on Matthews to lead by example and define the team’s culture moving forward. He’s the franchise player, so set the example and take a discount. The others will follow and the combined savings will be significant.

It’s all on Matthews right now.

Exactly!

So Quo Vadis Auston Matthews? What is your modus operandi?

Are you and your merry band going to try to bring the cup back to Toronto and become legends in the process?

Or are we just heading straight to the bank?

He was good game 1 to 4 vs habs

Game 5-6-7 when its matter, sorry nylander was not better than marner/matthews

He had 3 pts...
Pts #1 was on pp where he missed a pass from circle and finish his road on the oppisite side on simmonds stick and watched his teammate doing everything and was the only leafs player without any impact on that goal

His second pts he skate from his blue line to middle red line and made a pass pratically out of reach to muzzin on the opposite side... thats it

His goal came when leafs was already eliminated..

He did nothing game 5-6-7

Vs florida what nylander really did game 1 to 3?

Last season game 1 to 4 he did nothing

This season vs tampa was his worst serie ever , leafs would be a better without him in the line up in that one...

I wouldn't quite say games 1-4 meant nothing.

No matter how you spin it, Matthews and Marner beating Price just once when Nylander was able to do it 5 times doesn't look good on them.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs will live on if they move Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, ...

There isn't a single player on the Leafs team that will save or kill the franchise.

I’ve seen more successful versions of the Leafs and less successful versions of the Leafs, but few so frustrating compared to upside and results. If the star players act up and demand x y z there’s really two ways to approach it. Accommodate and just run it back again and again and accept the necessary evil. Or hit the reset button with a careful auditing of what makes a hockey culture.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I doubt thats what he’s doing though. He’s more than likely set an early signing price and will stick to it.


He sat out til Christmas and got a full year salary.

He supposedly said he would take a discount if Matty did, which at least implies that he's telling Matty to go first and prove it.

MY understanding was that he eventually got just what he had asked for originally. If so, doesn't that mean that Dubas got it wrong?

 

[Mentat]

Leafs will live on if they move Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, ...

There isn't a single player on the Leafs team that will save or kill the franchise.

And yet, if they all remain whilst being overpayed, we will continue to be in the worst possible limbo.
Not bad enough to get high draft picks and not good enough to compete for the Cup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I would love to get rid of the guy I don't like.

Sadly Dubas has emptied the prospect pool with only McCabe/Lafferty to show for it.

If Nylander is better then perhaps TOR could get assets like draft picks/prospects in return. Yes they will lose the trade, but the franchise will live on into the future.

That's the problem with trading Nylander you can't trade him for picks and prospects because this isn't a rebuild it's got to be a hockey trade not a package of magic beans

Leafs will live on if they move Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, ...

There isn't a single player on the Leafs team that will save or kill the franchise.

Sure they would live on but doing that would be f***ing stupid

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sure they would live on but doing that would be f***ing stupid

Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

 

[ToneDog]

That's the problem with trading Nylander you can't trade him for picks and prospects because this isn't a rebuild it's got to be a hockey trade not a package of magic beans



Sure they would live on but doing that would be f***ing stupid

If you can't get some NHL ready players, you could do a 2 year reset at which point JT comes off the books. In reality, odds are we are not winning anything within the next two years anyway IMO.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

I'm fairly certain that's closer to fact that opinion

 

[thusk]

Exactly!

So Quo Vadis Auston Matthews? What is your modus operandi?

Are you and your merry band going to try to bring the cup back to Toronto and become legends in the process?

Or are we just heading straight to the bank?


I wouldn't quite say games 1-4 meant nothing.

No matter how you spin it, Matthews and Marner beating Price just once when Nylander was able to do it 5 times doesn't look good on them.

I never say thats mean nothing... i said the only good streche nylabder really had last 3 year is those 4 game...he played a solid half of series in 3 year and he should be considerate like a good playoff player?

Nylander high had been really high but his down was pretty trash too... the best word to describe nylander in playoff is rollercoaster...

Matthews/Marner high never been extremely high but they was constant on both side of the ice...

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Leafs will live on if they move Matthews, marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, ...

There isn't a single player on the Leafs team that will save or kill the franchise.

I'm not talking about Toronto in relation to franchises like Arizona who fear for their survival. I'm talking about having TOR's competitiveness live on beyond MM/WN/AM/JT.

This management group thought the Leafs would be competing for a cup since they made the post-season in 2017 (followed by signing Tavares). That's a very long time to be treading water with drafting all these years.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If you can't get some NHL ready players, you could do a 2 year reset at which point JT comes off the books. In reality, odds are we are not winning anything within the next two years anyway IMO.

If all you can get is magic beans you don't make the deal.

 

[Golden_Jet]

At even strength, Meier had 23G 20A. Nylander had 31G 28A.

At even strength, Nylander was playing with Tavares (18G) and Kerfoot (7G), while Meier played with Hertl (16G) and Couture (21G). If anything. Nylander had the worse linemates.

What about the numbers with Matthew’s

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Just sign a reasonable contract already or gtho. Same goes for Matthews and eventually Marner.

Wish these guys showed as much grit and determination in the playoffs as they do negotiating contracts. They’d run through a brick wall for an extra 500k but not for ua Cup

 

[notDatsyuk]

What about the numbers with Matthew’s

Not a lot of time with Matthews excerpt on the PP.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm fairly certain that's closer to fact that opinion

It is perhaps your view that the players are bigger than the team.

I've seen this team since the early 60's and it would be difficult to make a team worse than I have watched already.

This team is nothing special until they prove it.

Still waiting.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not talking about Toronto in relation to franchises like Arizona who fear for their survival. I'm talking about having TOR's competitiveness live on beyond MM/WN/AM/JT.

This management group thought the Leafs would be competing for a cup since they made the post-season in 2017 (followed by signing Tavares). That's a very long time to be treading water with drafting all these years.

They cycle up and down like most teams do. Look at the lottery winning Hawks.

 

[mydnyte]

True, JT really drags that line down, and really shouldn't be more than 3C at this point, but I'm not sure why that means Willy isn't a line driver.

And again, isn't that more justification for playing Mitch with JT and Willy with Matty?

right, a PPG 35+ goal scorer is a 3rd liner ...he'd still bloody be the #1C on 50% of the teams in the league today

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm fairly certain that's closer to fact that opinion

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.

I never say thats mean nothing... i said the only good streche nylabder really had last 3 year is those 4 game...he played a solid half of series in 3 year and he should be considerate like a good playoff player?

Nylander high had been really high but his down was pretty trash too... the best word to describe nylander in playoff is rollercoaster...

Matthews/Marner high never been extremely high but they was constant on both side of the ice...

I don't think that's true either and I don't like labelling players "good playoff player" or "bad playoff player", it's never that simple.

What I would say is this - during the regular season, M&M have both been much better than Nylander but in the playoffs over say the last 3 years, that gap shrinks considerably. Maybe the massive pay gap between these guys is justified re. Nylander during the regular season, for a guy like me who cares a lot more about the playoffs then record breaking Novembers etc., the massive pay gap is not justified.

Based on performance in the last 3 playoffs, I'd probably go something like this:
8 million - Nylander
9 million - Marner
10 million - Matthews

Based on expectations which are in turn based on their cap hits, Nylander has earned his money and more while M&M have underperformed expectations by a 2-3 million each and that's why when there is talk of trading Nylander, so many people react by saying why not keep Nylander and trade Marner instead?

JMHO.