Nylander/Jokiharju Trade Talk 2

[bwana63]

LDF got a burner account?

lol, that's harsh. Especially, for a guest.

 

[wahsnairb]

I don’t see much positive sorry, I would love for this team to get back to it’s glory but it’s being held back by horrible management, to me it’s frustrating seeing the prime years of Toews and Kane being wasted like this, in a year career years by Kane and Toews the team should have been contending if it wasn’t for the very thin lineup around them. I get happy with success, that’s how I run my life, maybe others are different? Maybe others can handle in other ways, this is just me there is no schtick or stick or whatever you wanna call it.

You do realize the lack of team around them was a direct result of winning 3 Stanley Cups and having to do financial triage once all those players who performed got paid for their performances?

Wow that would be wild to only enjoy my team when they are winning.

This man needs an ice cold red dog more than anything in the world right now.

 

[Blackhawks]

You do realize the lack of team around them was a direct result of winning 3 Stanley Cups and having to do financial triage once all those players who performed got paid for their performances?

Wow that would be wild to only enjoy my team when they are winning.

This man needs an ice cold red dog more than anything in the world right now.

This keeps being used as an excuse over and over again but many have stated the exact moves by Stan that are the direct result of the lack of team around them.

 

[wahsnairb]

This keeps being used as an excuse but many have stated exactly that it’s not the case and the moves Stan has made is the direct result of the lack of team around them.

So you’re telling me, honestly, that you don’t believe that entire team was paid for their success? All you have to do is google their contracts... the information is readily available to you.

 

[bwana63]

PSA: ignore is your friend

 

[Blackhawks]

So you’re telling me, honestly, that you don’t believe that entire team was paid for their success? All you have to do is google their contracts... the information is readily available to you.

The shallowness of thought and this simple kind of thinking is why people reach these conclusions. You gotta think a little deeper than that. Look at the bad trades made since 2015 and the bad signing of Seabrook that was horrendous and most even here were mind boggled at the length of it atleast along with the NMC that was given with it. I don’t need to “google” I know the exact website where to find that info lol

 

[RayP]

So you’re telling me, honestly, that you don’t believe that entire team was paid for their success? All you have to do is google their contracts... the information is readily available to you.

It would be interesting to take the Cup roster and saw what the teams cap hit would be if you swapped out their current contract with anyone that signed a deal within the next year or two... as well as anyone on an ELC and then see what that rosters cap hit would be.

Almost all Cup winning teams have a roster with a ton of cap friendly deals who then get rewarded. What team doesn’t fit that bill?

Of course you’re then going to lose people and then they’re going to be replaced by late first round picks who aren’t the best of prospects.

 

[RayP]

I can't find the data for the 2010 team, but the 2013 team....

Toews/Kane - both on their 6.3M hits.
Hammer - 3.5M hit.
Crow - 2.6M hit.
Leddy - 900K hit.
Saad - 764K hit.
Kruger - 735K hit.
Shaw - 5743K hit.
Bickell - 541K hit.

So yeah... lots of guys that were major contributors who were eventually going to get raises, and you are in the midst of a decade stretch with late first round picks.

 

[wahsnairb]

The shallowness of thought and this simple kind of thinking is why people reach these conclusions. You gotta think a little deeper than that. Look at the bad trades made since 2015 and the bad signing of Seabrook that was horrendous and most even here were mind boggled at the length of it atleast along with the NMC that was given with it. I don’t need to “google” I know the exact website where to find that info lol

The irony of this...

Head to that exact website you know and check cap space when moves like TT and Bickell for picks or Shaw for picks and deals you’re saying were bad POST winning cups and consequently overpaying players for this. You even directly bring up Seabrook’s bad contract which is an example of an overpaid (the most exaggerated example) player being rewarded for success.

The Hawks have done well recently now that the cap is no longer an issue after having moved some of these contracts. If you want to argue that, you’re just a masochist and I’m wasting my time.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Christ y'all need some more RDs up in this house

 

[Blackhawks]

The irony of this...

Head to that exact website you know and check cap space when moves like TT and Bickell for picks or Shaw for picks and deals you’re saying were bad POST winning cups and consequently overpaying players for this. You even directly bring up Seabrook’s bad contract which is an example of an overpaid (the most exaggerated example) player being rewarded for success.

The Hawks have done well recently now that the cap is no longer an issue after having moved some of these contracts. If you want to argue that, you’re just a masochist and I’m wasting my time.

Shaw? No one complained about the Shaw trade, the big flaws were the Seabrook signing, Saad trade for Anisimov, TT, Danault, getting Daley and whatever for Sharp when you could just cap dump and keep Oduya, Hammer trade, trading Panarin for Saad, these moves were all not cap casualties and even the TT could have been solved otherwise as you saw it was an overpayment and hence why Hawks got a 2nd and third back, this mentality of this is the only way things could been fixed is really closed minded. Let’s see if the trades this summer cause more damage or fix the team. Stan went for all injury prone players and projects, odds are against them holding up but time will tell. I am done discussing the same thing over and over, the excuses for Stan are many...


If this team misses the playoffs for a third season in a row everyone here better be on the fire Stan train, it’s just extremely stupid at that point to even give an ounce of support to this guy, I think it’s already over due but at that point it should be very clear to everyone he’s the culprit...

 

[Rooh]

ice cold red dog sounds nice

 

[Muffinalt]

I plan on attending 1 or 2 days at PC this week...

I am taking requests- on who I should watch closely and report back on.

So i just realized Gilbert wont even be there. Could you watch Entwistle then some, I want to know if his skating improved.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Does anyone have a good Blackhawks podcast to listen to? I usually listen to the Zawaski one but it's just really not very good. Their reaction to this trade specifically just really grated on me. I'm sure there's one out there but haven't kept up.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Does anyone have a good Blackhawks podcast to listen to? I usually listen to the Zawaski one but it's just really not very good. Their reaction to this trade specifically just really grated on me. I'm sure there's one out there but haven't kept up.

That's the best one out there, sadly.
Blackhawks talk on NBCS Chicago is good as well. I haven't listened to SCH's podcast but I'm going to give them a try.

 

[AmericanDream]

Does anyone have a good Blackhawks podcast to listen to? I usually listen to the Zawaski one but it's just really not very good. Their reaction to this trade specifically just really grated on me. I'm sure there's one out there but haven't kept up.

Hawks and Other Relevant Podcasts

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Does anyone have a good Blackhawks podcast to listen to? I usually listen to the Zawaski one but it's just really not very good. Their reaction to this trade specifically just really grated on me. I'm sure there's one out there but haven't kept up.

BlackhawksTalk is really the only one I listen to.

 

[coolhand]

Shaw? No one complained about the Shaw trade, the big flaws were the Seabrook signing, Saad trade for Anisimov, TT, Danault, getting Daley and whatever for Sharp when you could just cap dump and keep Oduya, Hammer trade, trading Panarin for Saad, these moves were all not cap casualties and even the TT could have been solved otherwise as you saw it was an overpayment and hence why Hawks got a 2nd and third back, this mentality of this is the only way things could been fixed is really closed minded. Let’s see if the trades this summer cause more damage or fix the team. Stan went for all injury prone players and projects, odds are against them holding up but time will tell. I am done discussing the same thing over and over, the excuses for Stan are many...


If this team misses the playoffs for a third season in a row everyone here better be on the fire Stan train, it’s just extremely stupid at that point to even give an ounce of support to this guy, I think it’s already over due but at that point it should be very clear to everyone he’s the culprit...

Well, regarding the Saad trade, I don't blame Stan. Saad signed with Columbus for the same money the Hawks offered. Maybe he got a longer term from them but to me it made no sense for him to leave. Trading Panarin was a no brainer as the Hawks had no cap room to sign him, just like they had no room this summer as well. It was better to trade Panarin and get something than loose him for nothing or for very little.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Hey all, Sabres fan here.
Just popped in to give a heads up on Nylander.
First off, read some remarks in the 2 threads on this trade on your boards, Buffalo is considered one of the top 10 developing organizati9ns in the league, so before you blame Nylanders absence at the NHL on a terrible organization, I strongly suggest you reconsider.
Nylander isn't in the NHL because of Nylander. He's a project to be sure. Shows decent speed, but not abundantly over average. Has a nice shot, but nothing to write home about. Does well on perimeter play until somebody bodies him. He has decent hands, but often looses control 0f the puck in poor decision making.

He had 3 years in Rochester to prove he was improving his play. He failed to show those improvements while others blew right by him, such as Asplund, Olofsson and a couple of others.

He appears better at the NHL level in the few games he did play in Buffalo, so that's the good news. The really bad news is there were whispers out of Rochester of some attitude issues, particularly entitlement mindset.

Good to him in the Hawks organization. And try to remember, before judging Buffalo's development system on a players perceived pro level shortcomings, it is the wise man who remembers, Buffalo is the first organization in the modern hockey era to tear down everything, including the foundation, and build anew. Sometimes, it is the players own shortcomings that are the problem, not the organization.

 

[Blackhawks]

Well, regarding the Saad trade, I don't blame Stan. Saad signed with Columbus for the same money the Hawks offered. Maybe he got a longer term from them but to me it made no sense for him to leave. Trading Panarin was a no brainer as the Hawks had no cap room to sign him, just like they had no room this summer as well. It was better to trade Panarin and get something than loose him for nothing or for very little.

Same talking points that make no sense... Hawks traded Saad away, they didn’t think he was worth 6M, everyone was ok with the move here because they thought he wasn’t worth it and I was called a team hater for flaming Stan, then he was brought back and everyone rejoiced again, the irony... lol

About Panarin saying “better to trade him” is just mornic as you still have two entire years of an elite player playing on your team for peanuts, if those mean nothing now and “Better to trade” I have no words for these kind of arguments honestly because they are plain stupid.

Lose Saad when you didn’t have to, then lose Panarin to bring him back. You do realize that the Columbus blue jackets turned Anisimov into 2 years of Saad and 2 years of Panarin, that’s robbery when we could have easily had Panarin and Saad with the Hawks for 4 years if it wasn’t for Stan. But ya keep making the same lame repeated excuses ...

 

[BK]

Same talking points that make no sense... Hawks traded Saad away, they didn’t think he was worth 6M, everyone was ok with the move here because they thought he wasn’t worth it and I was called a team hater for flaming Stan, then he was brought back and everyone rejoiced again, the irony... lol

About Panarin saying “better to trade him” is just mornic as you still have two entire years of an elite player playing on your team for peanuts, if those mean nothing now and “Better to trade” I have no words for these kind of arguments honestly because they are plain stupid.

Lose Saad when you didn’t have to, then lose Panarin to bring him back. You do realize that the Columbus blue jackets turned Anisimov into 2 years of Saad and 2 years of Panarin, that’s robbery when we could have easily had Panarin and Saad with the Hawks for 4 years if it wasn’t for Stan. But ya keep making the same lane excuses everyone repeats...

Panarin is elite but it doesn’t put us in the playoffs either year. Saad was brought back to replace Hossa. Didn’t work.

Who would you have traded Panarin for? I would have gone prospect heavy but I wanted to rebuild/retool sooner.

To be clear, you are called a “team hater” because you basically hate everything. Fair or not.

 

[AmericanDream]

Same talking points that make no sense... Hawks traded Saad away, they didn’t think he was worth 6M, everyone was ok with the move here because they thought he wasn’t worth it and I was called a team hater for flaming Stan, then he was brought back and everyone rejoiced again, the irony... lol

About Panarin saying “better to trade him” is just mornic as you still have two entire years of an elite player playing on your team for peanuts, if those mean nothing now and “Better to trade” I have no words for these kind of arguments honestly because they are plain stupid.

Lose Saad when you didn’t have to, then lose Panarin to bring him back. You do realize that the Columbus blue jackets turned Anisimov into 2 years of Saad and 2 years of Panarin, that’s robbery when we could have easily had Panarin and Saad with the Hawks for 4 years if it wasn’t for Stan. But ya keep making the same lame repeated excuses ...

I agree that the original Saad for Panarin deal was bad and still is bad. I do not like those that bring up Panarin leaving CBJ as a plus to the trade for us. Yes, it was an implication for why we long term couldn't keep Panarin here but that trade is a loss no matter how we slice it. I didn't like the deal at the time but semi understood the motives. You still have to use context when looking at some trades, bigger picture stuff - you seem incapable of doing that for much of these trades as if they are all made in some bubble. that just isn't reality. I agree that Bowman got fleeced on the Panarin/Saad trade, I will not spin that one..but at least understand the context of why it was made.

And if you want to be fair and use complete context and facts - we traded 2 years of Panarin for AA and Saad as we still have them both...just saying.

 

[Blackhawks]

I agree that the original Saad for Panarin deal was bad and still is bad. I do not like those that bring up Panarin leaving CBJ as a plus to the trade for us. Yes, it was an implication for why we long term couldn't keep Panarin here but that trade is a loss no matter how we slice it. I didn't like the deal at the time but semi understood the motives. You still have to use context when looking at some trades, bigger picture stuff - you seem incapable of doing that for much of these trades as if they are all made in some bubble. that just isn't reality. I agree that Bowman got fleeced on the Panarin/Saad trade, I will not spin that one..but at least understand the context of why it was made.

And if you want to be fair and use complete context and facts - we traded 2 years of Panarin for AA and Saad as we still have them both...just saying.

I disagree, most tend not to look at the entire picture and the history of why some things were done and only look at it from trade to trade basis. I have many times said exactly where Stan has failed and how those trades were not made because of certain cap constraints or other constraints, and I have shown the chain of events as well, so to say I am not looking at the big picture is funny to me. Also I don’t care about the failed explanation as to “why it was made” as I stated that’s a flawed explanation the second those trades were made... Go for instance and check the Saad-Panarin trade and see how I was one of the very few against it and everyone jumping on the “explanation of why it was made” logic which was stupid. I am just speaking history, why it was made doesn’t mean much when that didn’t actually happen or achieve the goal.

 

[BK]

I disagree, most tend not to look at the entire picture and the history of why some things were done and only look at it from trade to trade basis. I have many times said exactly where Stan has failed and how those trades were not made because of certain cap constraints or other constraints, and I have shown the chain of events as well, so to say I am not looking at the big picture is funny to me.

Really? Are you really claiming you look big picture and that most of us don’t? Because there are thousands of posts that show you are wrong. Literally thousands.

You can claim different you have views than most and that would be fine but for you to claim you are the only one looking big picture is just asinine.

 

[Blackhawks]

Really? Are you really claiming you look big picture and that most of us don’t? Because there are thousands of posts that show you are wrong. Literally thousands.

I added some stuff to my post, well I was accused of not looking at the big picture but yes to answer your question I do look at the big picture deeper than most here.