Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nonsense.

Name 30 C in the league today better than Suzuki, right now...

He was at top 10 C in the league level before his rough stretch, to suggest he isn't a #1C is just silly unless McDavid is the standard you're operating from.

Relax man.

Reality is that his career high is 61 points. Most here figured he’d be a mid pack number one. He’s not delivering on this right now.

If he’s say the 30th best center, then I’d say he’s a fringe number one. Not what we’re expecting.

Because I have realistic expectations & appreciate that being 23 & that the quality of roster needs to be factored into any assessment of a player's performance

Criticism is fine. Bad assessments are bad assessments. Let's not conflate the two.

Okay, well my expectations were that he’d be a guy who’d be able to keep up a strong level of play throughout the year. I knew there’d be highs and lows but I thought he had a shot at 80 points. I don’t think those expectations are too high.

He’s in pace for 70 - not bad. But it’s not the point pace that concerns me, it’s the way he’s disappeared for the last month. He should be better than that. He’s 23 years old - entering his prime.

Sorry if you don’t think he should be criticized but his play the past month is unacceptable for a player of his caliber. He’s better than this and needs to show it. That’s what number ones do.

 

[Miller Time]

Relax man.

Reality is that his career high is 61 points. Most here figured he’d be a mid pack number one. He’s not delivering on this right now.

If he’s say the 30th best center, then I’d say he’s a fringe number one. Not what we’re expecting.

Okay, well my expectations We’re that he’d be a guy who’d be able to keep up a strong level of play throughout the year. I knew there’s be highs and lows but I thought he had a shot at 80 points. I don’t think those expectations are too high.

He’s in pace for 70 - not bad. But it’s not the point pace that concerns me, it’s the way he’s disappeared for the last month. He should be better than that. He’s 23 years old - entering his prime.

Sorry if you don’t think he should be criticized but his play the past month is unacceptable for a player of his caliber. He’s betting than this and needs to show it. That’s what number ones do.

What's with all the strawmen & nonsensical comments LG? You're typically not that kind of poster...

Bottom line, he is, this year, playing at #1C level.
He is, this year, 23 years old.
He is, this year, on a terrible roster.
He is, this year, on track for his 4th straight positive performance improvement.

I've yet to see you respond to any of these points. Any criticism that ignores context is just fan drama, sorry if that's your preference, it just doesn't happen to be mine.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Carry on with the complaining, don't let me ruin the fun you find in an ungrounded whine-fest!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What's with all the strawmen & nonsensical comments LG? You're typically not that kind of poster...

What strawman?

Bottom line, he is, this year, playing at #1C level.
He is, this year, 23 years old.
He is, this year, on a terrible roster.
He is, this year, on track for his 4th straight positive performance improvement.

I've yet to see you respond to any of these points. Any criticism that ignores context is just fan drama, sorry if that's your preference, it just doesn't happen to be mine.

You aren’t reading closely enough then. I’ve acknowledged the challenges. It’s a tough assignment and Monahan going down hasn’t helped. Nobody’s saying it’s not a tough gig.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Carry on with the complaining, don't let me ruin the fun you find in an ungrounded whine-fest!

I don’t understand why you’re so upset. Everyone here thinks he’s better than he’s been. But he has been flat out bad for the past month. That’s not “whining” it’s an assessment of his play.

Regardless of circumstances he’s a better player than this. He needs to show it.

 

[Miller Time]

He had a cold streak the around the same period last year.

Holidays add a particular level of distraction that young players need to learn how to navigate. Tougher on those with strong family ties & traditions...

Who knows if that's a factor in his recent struggles, but it certainly could be.

What strawman?

You aren’t reading closely enough then. I’ve acknowledged the challenges. It’s a tough assignment and Monahan going down hasn’t helped. Nobody’s saying it’s not a tough gig.

I don’t understand why you’re so upset. Everyone here thinks he’s better than he’s been. But he has been flat out bad for the past month. That’s not “whining” it’s an assessment of his play.

Regardless of circumstances he’s a better player than this. He needs to show it.

Can you stop with the nonesense?

No one is upset. You are making this personal rather than staying on topic.

Your assessment is terrible for reasons I've articulated clearly and that you keep avoiding responding to. Why not start there.

Google can help if you need to understand what a strawman argument is, I'm not here to explain terms to you.

Try to consider context and perhaps the assessment won't suck so bad

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Holidays add a particular level of distraction that young players need to learn how to navigate. Tougher on those with strong family ties & traditions...

Who knows if that's a factor in his recent struggles, but it certainly could be.



Can you stop with the nonesense?

No one is upset. You are making this personal rather than staying on topic.

Your assessment is terrible for reasons I've articulated clearly and keep avoiding responding to.

Try to consider context and perhaps the assessment won't suck so bad



Can you stop with the nonesense?

No one is upset. You are making this personal rather than staying on topic.

Your assessment is terrible for reasons I've articulated clearly and keep avoiding responding to.

Try to consider context and perhaps the assessment won't suck so bad

Do you think he’s played well the past month?

Do you think it’s fair to criticize him if he hasn’t?

 

[Miller Time]

Do you think he’s played well the past month?

Do you think it’s fair to criticize him if he hasn’t?

No. Never said otherwise.

But actually, he started off December quite well, it's only been the past two weeks that he's both looked sluggish and stopped producing at the top 5 level he was pacing the previous 2+months.

Making a blanket assessment about a player based on a 10 game stretch over 2 weeks is... Well, pick whatever obvious word comes to mind, I don't want to be insulting.

Fair? What does have to do with anything? Bad assessments are bad assessments. Criticism born out of a bad assessment is... empty whining.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No. Never said otherwise.

But actually, he started off December quite well, it's only been the past two weeks that he's both looked sluggish and stopped producing at the top 5 level he was pacing the previous 2+months.

Making a blanket assessment about a player based on a 10 game stretch over 2 weeks is... Well, pick whatever obvious word comes to mind, I don't want to be insulting.

Fair? What does have to do with anything? Bad assessments are bad assessments. Criticism born out of a bad assessment is... empty whining.

How is it a bad assessment?

It’s not like he’s been snakebit. He simply isn’t showing up for games.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

First period was the best I’ve seen of him in a long time.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Suzuki is a big part of the problem.

He has done this every year, where he stops playing and goes into zombie mode for a 20-30 game stretch. The biggest tell is he entirely stops trying any of the dynamic moves that make him so good to start the season and his creativity becomes almost Gallagheresque. I truly believed that he would take that next step this year and get over this ridiculously annoying pattern but alas.....

He has been a huge contributor to the mid season crash that we can annually count on but he is also a big part of the solution and he needs to pull his thumb out of his mouth and take charge because that is what he signed up for when he accepted the captaincy. It is big boy time Nick so man up.

I have been sitting on this outburst all season and didn't want to say anything as I really didn't think he would do it again. If he can't summon the confidence to dictate play then he should not be captain, good captain's lead by example and don't allow their self doubt to permeate the rest of the team.

For those who don't know I absolutely love his game when he is on, more than any player on the team but to do this again, to do this as captain.....It is time to grow up Nick and face your demons so that the rest of the team don't get tormented by them.

Sorry, that turd has been banging at the door door a while.......once it started coming out I couldn't stop lol

 

[Miller Time]

How is it a bad assessment?

It’s not like he’s been snakebit. He simply isn’t showing up for games.

Context matters.

First period was the best I’ve seen of him in a long time.

Maybe he read your critique and that woke him up...

Suzuki is a big part of the problem.

He has done this every year, where he stops playing and goes into zombie mode for a 20-30 game stretch. The biggest tell is he entirely stops trying any of the dynamic moves that make him so good to start the season and his creativity becomes almost Gallagheresque. I truly believed that he would take that next step this year and get over this ridiculously annoying pattern but alas.....

He has been a huge contributor to the mid season crash that we can annually count on but he is also a big part of the solution and he needs to pull his thumb out of his mouth and take charge because that is what he signed up for when he accepted the captaincy. It is big boy time Nick so man up.

I have been sitting on this outburst all season and didn't want to say anything as I really didn't think he would do it again. If he can't summon the confidence to dictate play then he should not be captain, good captain's lead by example and don't allow their self doubt to permeate the rest of the team.

For those who don't know I absolutely love his game when he is on, more than any player on the team but to do this again, to do this as captain.....It is time to grow up Nick and face your demons so that the rest of the team don't get tormented by them.

Sorry, that turd has been banging at the door door a while.......once it started coming out I couldn't stop lol

Early front runner for worst post of the year...

 

[Mrb1p]

Its true that Suzuki tends to go Zombie mode and play careless/uninspired hockey for stretches.

It started like 3 weeks ago, pucks stopped going in and he kinda lost his magic. I guess its hard to motivate yourself over this season.

Not worried about him one bit though, he is a gamer and will bring it when its needed. Go on extended crap streak like Kovy and then absolutely tear the barn down when it matters. Carey Price was just like that.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Dude has so much pressure on his shoulders, he can't carry the team by himself (and Caufield). There's not a single line... not a single DUO ffs other than those two guys.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Dude has so much pressure on his shoulders, he can't carry the team by himself (and Caufield). There's not a single line... not a single DUO ffs other than those two guys.

Nobody is saying that Suzuki should carry the team to victory....he should be moving his feet and actually trying to make plays instead of mailing it in every night for the last few weeks.

Pressure is for p*****s, if you accept the money and the captaincy then you accept the pressure and you set the bar high for your teammates to follow. If you are going to ask your teammates to be the best they can be every night then walk the walk and show them how it is done.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dude has so much pressure on his shoulders, he can't carry the team by himself (and Caufield). There's not a single line... not a single DUO ffs other than those two guys.

He definitely does. And I don’t expect him to lead us anywhere right now. But I do expect him to show up.

Nobody is ignoring the context of the situation. Nobody is asking him to lead us to a win streak. It is what it is. But he has to show up. The first period of yesterday’s game was the best I’ve seen him play in about a month. Hopefully he can build on that. He needs to play better than he is.

I can accept scoring slumps. I can accept losing streaks. It’s gonna happen. But I don’t accept him totally disappearing for a month. Not acceptable - unless he’s hurt. And that’s a possibility. I don’t think it’s the case though because he vanished right when Monahan went down.

 

[BLONG7]

Relax man.

Reality is that his career high is 61 points. Most here figured he’d be a mid pack number one. He’s not delivering on this right now.

If he’s say the 30th best center, then I’d say he’s a fringe number one. Not what we’re expecting.

Okay, well my expectations were that he’d be a guy who’d be able to keep up a strong level of play throughout the year. I knew there’d be highs and lows but I thought he had a shot at 80 points. I don’t think those expectations are too high.

He’s in pace for 70 - not bad. But it’s not the point pace that concerns me, it’s the way he’s disappeared for the last month. He should be better than that. He’s 23 years old - entering his prime.

Sorry if you don’t think he should be criticized but his play the past month is unacceptable for a player of his caliber. He’s better than this and needs to show it. That’s what number ones do.

Teams can focus on Suzuki, with Money Monahan out..............basically what has happened.
This kid is talented.........he does have to work on coverage of his man, in his own end........he is late to the party at times in his own end, and the puck is in our net..........not always his lines fault, with our dud goalies.....but Suzuki has stuff to work on..............
He is the most talented Centre we have had, since? Koivu?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Teams can focus on Suzuki, with Money Monahan out..............basically what has happened.
This kid is talented.........he does have to work on coverage of his man, in his own end........he is late to the party at times in his own end, and the puck is in our net..........not always his lines fault, with our dud goalies.....but Suzuki has stuff to work on..............
He is the most talented Centre we have had, since? Koivu?

Definitely since Koivu. And what you’re saying is true but every number one is focused on. You have to be able to deal with that if you’re legitimately a number one.

Again, not saying it’s not a hard assignment. Not saying that I don’t expect slumps. But he’s not even generating chances. There have been weeks at a time where you don’t even notice him on the ice… he’s got to be better.

 

[NORiculous]

Name 30 C in the league today better than Suzuki, right now...

That is pretty pointless.

For example, having a top 25 C as a #1 C isn’t something good. #1C is the most important position. You need to have a guy that is at least top 10 and ideally top 5 for at least a couple of years.

To me Suzuki is Koivu 2.0 and this team needs a guy like Bedard to play in front of Suzuki to continuously be a contender.

That should, IMO, be #1 priority. If this is achieved, the reste if the pieces will be much easier to fall into place.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That is pretty pointless.

For example, having a top 25 C as a #1 C isn’t something good. #1C is the most important position. You need to have a guy that is at least top 10 and ideally top 5 for at least a couple of years.

To me Suzuki is Koivu 2.0 and this team needs a guy like Bedard to play in front of Suzuki to continuously be a contender.

That should, IMO, be #1 priority. If this is achieved, the reste if the pieces will be much easier to fall into place.

Going into this year and certainly after November I felt like he could be the guy. But we don’t have the advantage of a Carey Price anymore. Our team has to be better up front.

The question is how will he play when Monahan comes back? Hopefully he bounces back.

But yeah, he’s still unproven. I thought he’d be better than Koivu - and still do. But if he’s Koivu 2.0 then we need a real number one.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Slick Nick is absolutely good enough to be a #1C. He and Cole are the only credible threats we have, though. We need more. Kirby has been showing great things recently, but he still has a ways to go. Hopefully the draft goes our way this year, and PLD decides to come home. That would go a long way to taking the pressure off.

 

[BLONG7]

Slick Nick is absolutely good enough to be a #1C. He and Cole are the only credible threats we have, though. We need more. Kirby has been showing great things recently, but he still has a ways to go. Hopefully the draft goes our way this year, and PLD decides to come home. That would go a long way to taking the pressure off.

PLD would be great.................I just don't want to give up a ton of picks or prospects, to get him out of the Peg.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

PLD would be great.................I just don't want to give up a ton of picks or prospects, to get him out of the Peg.

Thing is PLD and Suzuki …. Neither are the superstars we need to win. We’ll be going up against other teams superstars trying to beat them. This would’ve worked if we had an advantage like Price in net but we don’t. We’re going to need to get loaded elsewhere.

CC I think is the real deal. That’s one. On the backend we’ve got great prospects but I don’t see the superstar. Roy, Slaf, Beck… I don’t see any there.

Ideally Nick becomes a number two. He’d be killer there if we had say Fantilli or Bedard. Does he carry the day if we’ve got PLD?

 

[Chr1s97]

That is pretty pointless.

For example, having a top 25 C as a #1 C isn’t something good. #1C is the most important position. You need to have a guy that is at least top 10 and ideally top 5 for at least a couple of years.

To me Suzuki is Koivu 2.0 and this team needs a guy like Bedard to play in front of Suzuki to continuously be a contender.

That should, IMO, be #1 priority. If this is achieved, the reste if the pieces will be much easier to fall into place.

I dont disagree but I don’t totally agree. Landing Bedard or a Bedard type of olayer would be fantastic, but Even if we dont land a “superstar” like Bedard. We’ll still be able to build a decent contender line up.

Koivu was almost a ppg player. So lets say that Suzuki is Koivu 2.0, almost a ppg player(not for the moment as his best season was last year at 61pts) but I think he’ll be a ppg player, add to that Caufield who I think will be a ppg player too, then Dach who can become atleast a 45-50pts/season player & if we can land PLD that’s another 60-65 pts season.

I will not pin any number on Slaf rn but if we can develop him properly thats another decent offensive player & then we will have our 2 1st pick this year & that goes without sayin all the player that we may have for the 3rd line that can bring secondary scoring(Beck, Heineman, Roy, Mesar, Ylonen, Farrell) or some of them can be trade to have a more established 3rd line player because Im not sure that any coach would like tonhave a 3rd line full of rookies.

So basically what Im trying to say is that without a Bedard type of player, we can still have a solid Top-9 if we can land PLD only. Now its only how HuGo will round up the team. Will he be able to solidify the D corps on the right. Will he be able to find us a decent Goalie. Will MSL be able to give us a decent PP.

 

[NORiculous]

I dont disagree but I don’t totally agree. Landing Bedard or a Bedard type of olayer would be fantastic, but Even if we dont land a “superstar” like Bedard. We’ll still be able to build a decent contender line up.

Koivu was almost a ppg player. So lets say that Suzuki is Koivu 2.0, almost a ppg player(not for the moment as his best season was last year at 61pts) but I think he’ll be a ppg player, add to that Caufield who I think will be a ppg player too, then Dach who can become atleast a 45-50pts/season player & if we can land PLD that’s another 60-65 pts season.

I will not pin any number on Slaf rn but if we can develop him properly thats another decent offensive player & then we will have our 2 1st pick this year & that goes without sayin all the player that we may have for the 3rd line that can bring secondary scoring(Beck, Heineman, Roy, Mesar, Ylonen, Farrell) or some of them can be trade to have a more established 3rd line player because Im not sure that any coach would like tonhave a 3rd line full of rookies.

So basically what Im trying to say is that without a Bedard type of player, we can still have a solid Top-9 if we can land PLD only. Now its only how HuGo will round up the team. Will he be able to solidify the D corps on the right. Will he be able to find us a decent Goalie. Will MSL be able to give us a decent PP.

No doubt that it is possible to build a decent/solid team without a Bedard type player. But to be a constant threat/contender is another story.

The guy who builds a team, will built it with the same knowledge, whether he has Bedard type or not. Meaning, HuGo will (most probably) build something solid one way or the other but the team he would build with a Bedard type player will always be better.


Except trading Caufield, Suzuki, Guhle and Slaf. HuGo should do all in their power to get the best chances at the next lottery. Playing a lot of Dadonov, Drouin, Hoffman, etc. is a good thing this year.

Hopefully Flo also helps a bit. A player like Bedard comes every 10 years. A player like Fantili would normally be a good 1st overall. (Really disappointed that Michkov signed that deal in the KHL. )

What a goal by Bedard to win that game… flashes of McDavid.


I am hoping for more than a solid Habs team… and landing a top 3 pick would be a really good step in that direction.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

As others have mentioned, he appears to go Zombie mode for stretches every year.

It’s plausible he’s played a bit too much in November/December and I would agree with that. This is not a team that should be trying to win, there’s no reason to play Suzuki/Caufield 22 minutes a game to try and win hockey games. 17-18 minutes a game would be optimal for them, especially during a rebuild.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

If he's injured they should sit him and let him get back to 100%. If he's healthy maybe it's time to demote him in favour of Dach for a few games. Send him a little message and shake things up, he's been inconsistent.