Management Travis Green [Head Coach]

[Cosmix]

It often seems that when a coach wants to make an imprint on a team, they want to focus on getting the goals against down. That seems something the coaches can have more of an effect on. Offense can be helped too, but that is more on the players it often feels to me.

But there's no one way to win. The coach i think has to figure what will work best for the particular players being dealt with. And then find a way to motivate them and best allow them to reach those goals. Easy to say, hard to measure.

Results are the way to measure coaching success. If the team wins more games than it did before the coach arrived, he has succeeded. Unless the GM or owner expected more! However, the objectives change over time. Getting into the playoffs is a key longer term objective, as are winning some playoff rounds.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

There's been plenty of opportunity to do real research with Green. Former players have come out and talked about him. These posters you are discussing with refuse to do it. Then stick their head in the sand and revert back to the same lazy argument. I commend you for continuing the discussion but it appears it doesn't matter what you say or what opportunity you give them to actually look into Green as a coach. They won't do it.

FYI if anyone here thinks they have a more educated hockey IQ than Frankie Corrado you may need to check your ego. He's an amazing source to get information on Green and the type of coach and person he is. He was saying positive thing way before he was even on the sens radar. His content is amazing if you want to be educated on the sport and league.

Corrado. The guy doing a spot on tsn1200? He came out and said great things about the new sens coach. No way.

 

[Micklebot]

Corrado. The guy doing a spot on tsn1200? He came out and said great things about the new sens coach. No way.

He said good things prior to the sens being linked to him, but sure, it's unlikely a media guy is going to trash a coach.

But here's the catch, people are quick to point to what fans say as gospel, but fans want a scape goat for their teams performance and fired coaches are an easy target, heck fans complain about the coaches decisions even when teams are winning.

What Corrado did though was talk specifics and highlighted Green's strengths as a coach, I don't think he's making anything up, and what he's said tends to align with what has been said about him in the past and what other sources have said.

I guess if you want to discount it, you can. The team obviously is digging deeper than Green's win loss record, odds are the stuff Corrado said about him was validated through the hiring process. Or, you can believe we hired a guy with, how did you put it, "a losing track record and no experience", for.... reasons?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He said good things prior to the sens being linked to him, but sure, it's unlikely a media guy is going to trash a coach.

But here's the catch, people are quick to point to what fans say as gospel, but fans want a scape goat for their teams performance and fired coaches are an easy target, heck fans complain about the coaches decisions even when teams are winning.

What Corrado did though was talk specifics and highlighted Green's strengths as a coach, I don't think he's making anything up, and what he's said tends to align with what has been said about him in the past and what other sources have said.

I guess if you want to discount it, you can. The team obviously is digging deeper than Green's win loss record, odds are the stuff Corrado said about him was validated through the hiring process. Or, you can believe we hired a guy with, how did you put it, "a losing track record and no experience", for.... reasons?

I’m not discounting it. I have posts in the green thread saying that context matters and hearing the context like management and how bad the d corps was and how bad the room was was helpful.

But my thoughts about this team maybe not being the best place for second chance risk have not changed

 

[bert]

Corrado. The guy doing a spot on tsn1200? He came out and said great things about the new sens coach. No way.

Did you even read the post that you quoted?

 

[bicboi64]

This is a revisionist argument, you only see many of these teams as having all their holes filled because they went on to have success. If we go on to have success with our current roster, suddenly we'll also have all our holes filled except the coach. Either way, it's just a misdirection, the point is teams that went on to win did so with coaches that were not established


Colorado didn't draft Makar until after they hired Bednar. We have Brady, Stützle, Sanderson.

Kucherov was an unknown when Cooper was hired, he didn't break out until 5 seasons after Cooper was hired

Babcock had two seasons as a head coach, one year where he rode a hot goalie to the finals and another where he missed the playoff.

Two years is established now? I don't think you're being logically consistent here. Green took over a terrible team and brought them on a playoff run nobody expected, beating the defending cup champs stl blues and then took the VGK to 7 games, he has more than double the experience Laviolette had.


Bednar came to a team where MacKinnon had 3 seasons under his belt, Rantanan had 9 games, Makar wasn't drafted and their captain had 5 years experience with only 7 playoff games, they were not some established team.,

The team Cooper took over and the team he was coaching three years later were completely different, Stamkos and Hedman were still there sure, but gone was Lecavalier, StLouis, Salo, Purcell, ect.


What? Bednar had zero track record Colorado, Cooper had zero track record before tbl, Bylsma had zero track record before Pittsburgh.


Green took over a bad roster, with some of the league's worst management of course he isn't going to have immediate success. It wouldn't matter if Scotty Bowman took over, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. That's why a highly experienced and established Bruce Boudreau had no sustained success when he took over.

It's not revisionist history because my point is that most of those coaches came into teams with pieces that were more established than ours (young and old) and/or coaches with a better track record than Green.

Point taken on Bednar, but like I mentioned in a different post, Bednar came in at the worst possible time and couldn't even bring in his own coaching staff.

Kucherov was unknown, but Stamkos and Hedman were well-established talents at that point in their careers (Stamkos prior to his injury trouble and Hedman was a legitimate shutdown defender who was improving every season). Those young guys were also insulated with great vets, Cooper came into a very favourable position.

Babcock having a Cup finals appearance has more weight than anything Green has done, and the season after that he lost a franchise winger in Kariya.

Bylsma came into a roster with two top 3 forwards in the league and a top 10 defender. If we have the equivalent of Crosby, Malkin or Letang, Green's hiring would be a bit easier to stomach.

Laviolette had winning seasons in NYI and established he could get his rosters into the playoffs, that's more than what we can say for Green, who choked very hard after his sole successful playoff appearance.

Green made the playoffs and seemed to have turned the ship around, but the next season in the Canadian division choked hard. EP had injuries, but the Nucks roster still had a lot of players they still have right now. Miller, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, etc., were all there and he couldn't get the most out of them in a division where they should've made the playoffs.

Brady, Stu, and Sandy are a great core, but we are missing in every other department relative to what some other coaches came into plus have the baggage of our season ending in December.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Did you even read the post that you quoted?

Corrado likes green man. And Brady tkatchuk loves DJ smith.

 

[Micklebot]

Corrado likes green man. And Brady tkatchuk loves DJ smith.

And fans are quick to blame coaches for all the team's problems

Which of the three (Corrado, Brady or fans) do you think is going to be a better judge of the quality of a coach?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

And fans are quick to blame coaches for all the team's problems

Which of the three (Corrado, Brady or fans) do you think is going to be a better judge of the quality of a coach?

None of the three.

Many coaches are interchangeable.

I just don’t think that THIS team in its current state was the right place to be giving a coach with bad results his second chance.

 

[Big Muddy]

Win % is attributable to the players, the GM, the scouts and the coach, and probably some other factors as well (e.g., health of the team). When there are deficiencies in multiple areas, a team is often not successful and won’t have a good win %. An analysis (using the term loosely) that concludes or suggests that the coach is the only factor or reason behind a team’s success is both rather shallow and frankly dumb. It seems rather mind boggling that some people can’t put their heads around this.

The other thing is Jim Benning is rather legendary when it comes to bad GMs. I really wonder about people who wouldn’t happen to mention this when discussing the Canucks and their track record.

 

[Micklebot]

None of the three.

Many coaches are interchangeable.

I just don’t think that THIS team in its current state was the right place to be giving a coach with bad results his second chance.

I think if you truly believe all three, Fans, a current player who played for a coach, and a former player who both played for a coach and went on to be an analyst, are on equal grounds when it comes to evaluating a coach, then idk where we can go from here,

If coaches are interchangeable, what does it matter whether the new guy coached a good team last time around? If our team is unique in such a way that you believe Green lacks the required skillset to bring the team to the next level, what is it about other coaches that makes you believe they have that skillset?he'll, what is the skillset that's needed for a team like ours?

 

[bert]

Corrado likes green man. And Brady tkatchuk loves DJ smith.

Situations are literally nothing alike in any way. I specifically said that corrado spoke about green long before he was even on Ottawas radar. Just a lazy response and you literally did exactly what i described.

Corrado had 10 + pro coach's talks about many of his different experiences. You should check out his Twitter feed. It could really help you understand the sport. Less time on here more time on there could really help

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think if you truly believe all three, Fans, a current player who played for a coach, and a former player who both played for a coach and went on to be an analyst, are on equal grounds when it comes to evaluating a coach, then idk where we can go from here,

If coaches are interchangeable, what does it matter whether the new guy coached a good team last time around? If our team is unique in such a way that you believe Green lacks the required skillset to bring the team to the next level, what is it about other coaches that makes you believe they have that skillset?he'll, what is the skillset that's needed for a team like ours?

I didn’t say ALL coaches were interchangeable. Some are. Green is in a list of a bunch of courses that I’m sure are all as good as eachother and circumstances made them look better than they were or worse than they were.

Didn’t say they are equal.

But I don’t think players that liked the coach are the best to evaluate the coach.

Because I can guarantee you that some players did NOT like the coach. Or do you think corrado is the perfect sample population?

Some liked green. Some didn’t. So who do you believe?

Situations are literally nothing alike in any way. I specifically said that corrado spoke about green long before he was even on Ottawas radar. Just a lazy response and you literally did exactly what i described.

Corrado had 10 + pro coach's talks about many of his different experiences. You should check out his Twitter feed. It could really help you understand the sport. Less time on here more time on there could really help

You in another one of your moods lol.

What about the players that didn’t like Green?

You’ve latched on to one guy who is saying what you want to hear. There’s a word for that. And that’s fine.

Don’t know what I’ve said that’s so controversial. Would have preferred a coach with a longer history of winning at this level to coach this team in its current state to mitigate any potential coaching risks.

They chose green. I can’t change that.

 

[Dionysus]

I didn’t say ALL coaches were interchangeable. Some are. Green is in a list of a bunch of courses that I’m sure are all as good as eachother and circumstances made them look better than they were or worse than they were.

Didn’t say they are equal.

But I don’t think players that liked the coach are the best to evaluate the coach.

Because I can guarantee you that some players did NOT like the coach. Or do you think corrado is the perfect sample population?

Some liked green. Some didn’t. So who do you believe?


You in another one of your moods lol.

What about the players that didn’t like Green?

You’ve latched on to one guy who is saying what you want to hear. There’s a word for that. And that’s fine.

Don’t know what I’ve said that’s so controversial. Would have preferred a coach with a longer history of winning at this level to coach this team in its current state to mitigate any potential coaching risks.

They chose green. I can’t change that.

Is there some quotes or stories about players not liking Green?

Hoping for a nice stabilizing year from Jensen. Would be a big help to Zub and Sanderson to have another defenceman who has good defensive ability. Spread the hard matchups slightly rather than having two pairs that need to be sheltered.

Experienced penalty killing defenceman was needed, which Jensen will provide as well.

 

[Micklebot]

I didn’t say ALL coaches were interchangeable. Some are. Green is in a list of a bunch of courses that I’m sure are all as good as eachother and circumstances made them look better than they were or worse than they were.

Didn’t say they are equal.

But I don’t think players that liked the coach are the best to evaluate the coach.

Because I can guarantee you that some players did NOT like the coach. Or do you think corrado is the perfect sample population?

Some liked green. Some didn’t. So who do you believe?

I didn't ask who was the best, I asked if they a re on equal grounds. You want to discount players with direct exposure to a coaches methods, and connections across the league because not every player will agree? Not all doctors agree on a diagnosis, therefore doctors aren't the best at diagnosing maladies?

Or are we just discounting all positive opinions, only negative opinions carry any weight?

Nobody is saying Corrado is the perfect evaluator of coaches, but his experience and exposure gives his opinion more weight than just looking up hockey Db. He provided concrete examples of what Greens strengths are, and substantiated why he believes Green will be a great fit here,

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Is there some quotes or stories about players not liking Green?

Hoping for a nice stabilizing year from Jensen. Would be a big help to Zub and Sanderson to have another defenceman who has good defensive ability. Spread the hard matchups slightly rather than having two pairs that need to be sheltered.

Experienced penalty killing defenceman was needed, which Jensen will provide as well.

I like Jensen. He had a down year.

Ullmark is the BIG equalizer tho. If he plays well all is well

Unless our coaching completely dries up.

No I don’t have quotes. But I doubt every player he’s ever coached has liked him.

And I’m not saying you should listen to players that didn’t like the coach. You should put about the same weight in both those that did and those that didn’t. Unless of course it was super personal

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I didn't ask who was the best, I asked if they a re on equal grounds. You want to discount players with direct exposure to a coaches methods, and connections across the league because not every player will agree? Not all doctors agree on a diagnosis, therefore doctors aren't the best at diagnosing maladies?

Or are we just discounting all positive opinions, only negative opinions carry any weight?

Nobody is saying Corrado is the perfect evaluator of coaches, but his experience and exposure gives his opinion more weight than just looking up hockey Db. He provided concrete examples of what Greens strengths are, and substantiated why he believes Green will be a great fit here,

And I heard that very interview. And I came on here. And said that the context he provided was helpful. But it did not sway my opinion all the way to thinking green was the perfect pick.

I support green. I have to. No choice. My tickets are already bought lol. Sens got my money.

It’s very common for fans, players, management, owners to want to hire coaches with long illustrious winning records lol. That’s not crazy. It happens in every profession. We chose or were maybe forced to go in a different direction.

 

[Micklebot]

And I heard that very interview. And I came on here. And said that the context he provided was helpful. But it did not sway my opinion all the way to thinking green was the perfect pick.

I support green. I have to. No choice. My tickets are already bought lol. Sens got my money.

It’s very common for fans, players, management, owners to want to hire coaches with long illustrious winning records lol. That’s not crazy. It happens in every profession. We chose or were maybe forced to go in a different direction.

Nobody said he was the perfect pick though, the push back is against those suggesting he was clearly the wrong pick for this team based seemingly on nothing tangible other than his win lose record with a flawed team.

It's not crazy to want a guy with a proven track record, I'll grant you that, and I don't think anyone is saying they'd be upset if we did, what is crazy is the assumption that Green isn't a good fit for this team with nothing to really back it up and inspite of people with direct exposure saying they believe he's a great fit.

We'll have to wait and see how it turns out, but I think people have PTSD from the Melnyk years where every coaching hire seemed to be based on who would accept the lowest bid.

What's bizarre is it feels like the people who are saying Green wasn't a good choice would be happier if we swapped Assistant and Head coaches, Mike Yeo has a .565 pts % and multiple trips to the playoffs, along with nearly 500 career games coached, pretty much would remove the points of criticism surrounding Green

 

[PlayersLtd]

Disappointment comes from not making the playoffs for 7+ years in a row, having a bottom 3 prospect pool, and hiring a mediocre coach who is somehow expected to take this team to the next level

Ahh, the old "I don't know much about Travis Green so he must be mediocre argument."

Your analysis of the disappointment is like saying water is wet because water is wet. Kind of obvious and redundant, no?

 

[RickyLafleur]

Ahh, the old "I don't know much about Travis Green so he must be mediocre argument."

Your analysis of the disappointment is like saying water is wet because water is wet. Kind of obvious and redundant, no?

Thank you for your analysis. What do we know about Travis Green exactly? Looks like he is a career loser.

2017-18	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	82	31	40	0	11	0.445	Out of Playoffs
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	82	35	36	0	11	0.494	Out of Playoffs
2019-20	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	69	36	27	0	6	0.565	Lost in round 2
2020-21	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	56	23	29	0	4	0.446	Out of Playoffs
2021-22	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head†	25	8	15	0	2	0.360
2023-24	New Jersey Devils	NHL	Associate							Out of Playoffs
2023-24	New Jersey Devils	NHL	Head‡							Out of Playoffs

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Nobody said he was the perfect pick though, the push back is against those suggesting he was clearly the wrong pick for this team based seemingly on nothing tangible other than his win lose record with a flawed team.

It's not crazy to want a guy with a proven track record, I'll grant you that, and I don't think anyone is saying they'd be upset if we did, what is crazy is the assumption that Green isn't a good fit for this team with nothing to really back it up and inspite of people with direct exposure saying they believe he's a great fit.

We'll have to wait and see how it turns out, but I think people have PTSD from the Melnyk years where every coaching hire seemed to be based on who would accept the lowest bid.

What's bizarre is it feels like the people who are saying Green wasn't a good choice would be happier if we swapped Assistant and Head coaches, Mike Yeo has a .565 pts % and multiple trips to the playoffs, along with nearly 500 career games coached, pretty much would remove the points of criticism surrounding Green

I would certainly be a LITTLE happier with yeo.

 

[Micklebot]

I would certainly be a LITTLE happier with yeo.

What qualities does Yeo bring that make him a better fit?

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's not revisionist history because my point is that most of those coaches came into teams with pieces that were more established than ours (young and old) and/or coaches with a better track record than Green.

Point taken on Bednar, but like I mentioned in a different post, Bednar came in at the worst possible time and couldn't even bring in his own coaching staff.

Kucherov was unknown, but Stamkos and Hedman were well-established talents at that point in their careers (Stamkos prior to his injury trouble and Hedman was a legitimate shutdown defender who was improving every season). Those young guys were also insulated with great vets, Cooper came into a very favourable position.

Babcock having a Cup finals appearance has more weight than anything Green has done, and the season after that he lost a franchise winger in Kariya.

Bylsma came into a roster with two top 3 forwards in the league and a top 10 defender. If we have the equivalent of Crosby, Malkin or Letang, Green's hiring would be a bit easier to stomach.

Laviolette had winning seasons in NYI and established he could get his rosters into the playoffs, that's more than what we can say for Green, who choked very hard after his sole successful playoff appearance.

Green made the playoffs and seemed to have turned the ship around, but the next season in the Canadian division choked hard. EP had injuries, but the Nucks roster still had a lot of players they still have right now. Miller, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, etc., were all there and he couldn't get the most out of them in a division where they should've made the playoffs.

Brady, Stu, and Sandy are a great core, but we are missing in every other department relative to what some other coaches came into plus have the baggage of our season ending in December.

So who were pining for then.

 

[bert]

Thank you for your analysis. What do we know about Travis Green exactly? Looks like he is a career loser.

2017-18	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	82	31	40	0	11	0.445	Out of Playoffs
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	82	35	36	0	11	0.494	Out of Playoffs
2019-20	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	69	36	27	0	6	0.565	Lost in round 2
2020-21	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head	56	23	29	0	4	0.446	Out of Playoffs
2021-22	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	Head†	25	8	15	0	2	0.360
2023-24	New Jersey Devils	NHL	Associate							Out of Playoffs
2023-24	New Jersey Devils	NHL	Head‡							Out of Playoffs

You didnt actually look at his career though. You cherry picked what you wanted to see without any context. Anyone listen to his interview on Coming in Hot yet? How about listening to some real professionals that played in the NHL that have no dog in the fight? Or are you guys all going to just keep repeating the same thing and bury your head in the sand.

He went to a memorial cup and a calder cup but you omitted those accomplishments.

He had a terrible roster with a terrible GM in Vancouver. He actually beat Berube and the Blues the one year he went to the playoffs and they pushed Vegas to 7. Last year he took over a team that fired its coach and was out of it and is frankly lead by one of the weakest leadership groups in hockey. Jack Hughes throws his own goalies under the bus to the media. But I mean given how this board reacted to the players defending one another when fans were booing; I am not surprised some people here might endorse that type of leadership.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What qualities does Yeo bring that make him a better fit?

You typed it out yourself.

What does green bring that makes you think he’s a great fit? Accountability? Hard training camp? Other coaches don’t do that?