NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Major4Boarding]

Continuing the Vegas discussions here

Previous (recent) threads

Bettman confirms interest in Vegas (UPD post 607: $450-500 MM fee?)

Brooks: NHL Has Selected Foley and Maloofs as Vegas Team Owners

Click to read more...

 

[Brodie]

where does the Black Knights thing come from?

 

[Fugu]

Article from Burnside about Bettman's visit:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12308033/nhl-launches-exploratory-las-vegas-ticket-drive

 

[TheLegend]

where does the Black Knights thing come from?

Foley attended West Point Academy. Black Knights are their mascot.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/fehr-were-not-involved-in-vegas-conversations/

Fehr: We are watching Vegas with interest

 

[who_me?]

where does the Black Knights thing come from?

Freemasonry. Which is where the West Point got it from.

 

[Braun]

I hate this sooooo much that if there is a team I will never watch it. Horrible that Vegas gets a team before Quebec. I hate this jdisbwhaysywnenehridnde

 

[Agalloch]

I hate this sooooo much that if there is a team I will never watch it. Horrible that Vegas gets a team before Quebec. I hate this jdisbwhaysywnenehridnde

Quebec will get a team at one point by relocalisation. It could take a few more years.

 

[cbcwpg]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...s-no-done-deal-on-vegas-team/article22905786/

Bettman also said he wasn’t concerned about putting a team in a city that has legal sports betting, noting that hockey is not nearly as heavily bet as basketball and football.

***

You know why that is Gary? Because people on the whole don't care about the NHL.

***** ******

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...nhl-team-bad-idea/article22905291/?cmpid=rss1

Kelly: Hot, depressing Las Vegas wants an NHL team? Bad idea

 

[Slot]

where does the Black Knights thing come from?

Because they always triumph!

How long until the goal of 10 000 seats is reached?

 

[Braun]

Quebec will get a team at one point by relocalisation. It could take a few more years.

Maybe but having a hockey team in Vegas is nonsensical. Bettmann seems to forget some of us actually care about the game and I don't just mean fans.

 

[cutchemist42]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...s-no-done-deal-on-vegas-team/article22905786/

Bettman also said he wasn’t concerned about putting a team in a city that has legal sports betting, noting that hockey is not nearly as heavily bet as basketball and football.

***

You know why that is Gary? Because people on the whole don't care about the NHL.

Hockey is pretty popular on the DFS sites, and by all accounts, that is gambling.

I would guess too the book action on the NHL probably reflects the national interest in the sport. On top of that, the size of action on a sport does not dictate anything. Vegas is good at catching suspect action, whether its on high or low volume sports/races.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

I will welcome Las Vegas with open arms another sunbelt team to fight the traditionalists, hockey is for everyone

 

[IceAce]

Hockey is pretty popular on the DFS sites, and by all accounts, that is gambling.

By what accounts is DFS considered "gambling?"

No fantasy sports game is considered gambling because it isnt a game of chance.

Although I would expect the NHL to just go the UNLV route and have the local games taken off the sportsbooks

 

[The Feckless Puck]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...nhl-team-bad-idea/article22905291/?cmpid=rss1

Kelly: Hot, depressing Las Vegas wants an NHL team? Bad idea

I suddenly find that I want the Vegas team twice as badly now after reading this drivel.

It appears some bright bulbs won't be satisfied until the NHL splits into Canadian-only and American-only leagues.

 

[cutchemist42]

By what accounts is DFS considered "gambling?"

No fantasy sports game is considered gambling because it isnt a game of chance.

Although I would expect the NHL to just go the UNLV route and have the local games taken off the sportsbooks

Sounds like you're splitting hairs but by all accounts it is gambling. If you want to go by strict dictionary terms so be it, but its still wagering on an unknown outcome in hopes of winning money. Call that what you want, but to me that is sports gambling/wagering.

The legality of DFS is also governed by the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006

 

[GindyDraws]

I will be amazed if they reach this goal within a few months.

In reality, I doubt they'll reach 75% by the 2016-17 season. Not because I don't think there are fans of hockey in Las Vegas, but rather the issue of there likely not being enough people willing to put down money on the hopes of a team.

I may be proved wrong, of course, but this is rather interesting to look at, and also makes me wonder if the league will consider expanding to 32 teams or even 34.

 

[Brodie]

Sounds like you're splitting hairs but by all accounts it is gambling. If you want to go by strict dictionary terms so be it, but its still wagering on an unknowns, I 2 outcome in hopes of winning money. Call that what you want, but to me that is sports gambling/wagering.

The legality of DFS is also governed by the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006

Just repeating this over and over doesn't make it true.

The act you mention specifically exempts all forms of fantasy sports from being considered gambling

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I may be proved wrong, of course, but this is rather interesting to look at, and also makes me wonder if the league will consider expanding to 32 teams or even 34.

I'm almost positive that the NHL doesn't want to go to 34, but I also don't think they'll only expand to 31. They have two open spots in the Western Conference and it's no secret they want in on Seattle, so it's Seattle/Vegas IMO.

 

[cutchemist42]

Just repeating this over and over doesn't make it true.

The act you mention specifically exempts all forms of fantasy sports from being considered gambling

Hmmm? Most threads ever broached on the topic had most people here saying it is sports better/wagering/gambling. Horse betting is a game of skill, but most here would still call it gambling/betting/wagering. Same thing with poker.

The act made it so that you can place bets legally through DFS sites, and wrote the act in a way that they liked to make it a game of skill. Those same rules could be written to make poker and single game betting just as much a game of skill if they wanted to.

The Act did nothing to change the very essence of what DFS, people placing bets on the chance certain players play they way they hope to for more money.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...nhl-team-bad-idea/article22905291/?cmpid=rss1

Kelly: Hot, depressing Las Vegas wants an NHL team? Bad idea

That entire article is a highly ignorant view and a whole lot of sour grapes.

 

[IceAce]

Hmmm? Most threads ever broached on the topic had most people here saying it is sports better/wagering/gambling. Horse betting is a game of skill, but most here would still call it gambling/betting/wagering. Same thing with poker.

No, betting on a race is a game of chance. Anything where you simply pick the winner of a contest/game and win based on a set of pre-determined odds is always going to be a game of chance.

The act made it so that you can place bets legally through DFS sites, and wrote the act in a way that they liked to make it a game of skill. Those same rules could be written to make poker and single game betting just as much a game of skill if they wanted to.

No, there's a pretty clear delineation in the Act if you've actually read it.

Single game betting is basically constructed (on a macro level) to be a game of chance. Hence the point spread, which is setup to get half the people to pick one side and half to pick the other.

I guess Poker would be similar to DFS if you could construct your own hand of cards from the deck and compete against others based on those cards competing in some real life game??

The Act did nothing to change the very essence of what DFS, people placing bets on the chance certain players play they way they hope to for more money.

You don't "place bets" in DFS. There are no odds and you don't compete against a "house." It's two or more people putting money in a pool and a certain % of people winning money based on a constructed lineup of players in real life sports. There's no chance involved. Everyone could theoretically pick the same exact lineup.

 

[cutchemist42]

No, betting on a race is a game of chance. Anything where you simply pick the winner of a contest/game and win based on a set of pre-determined odds is always going to be a game of chance.



No, there's a pretty clear delineation in the Act if you've actually read it.

Single game betting is basically constructed (on a macro level) to be a game of chance. Hence the point spread, which is setup to get half the people to pick one side and half to pick the other.

I guess Poker would be similar to DFS if you could construct your own hand of cards from the deck and compete against others based on those cards competing in some real life game??



You don't "place bets" in DFS. There are no odds and you don't compete against a "house." It's two or more people putting money in a pool and a certain % of people winning money based on a constructed lineup of players in real life sports. There's no chance involved. Everyone could theoretically pick the same exact lineup.

The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, which was an amendment to the larger and unrelated SAFE Port Act, included "carve out" language that clarified the legality of fantasy sports. It was signed into law on October 13, 2006 by President George W. Bush. The act makes transactions from banks or similar institutions to online gambling sites illegal, with the notable exceptions of fantasy sports, online lotteries and horse/harness racing.
The bill specifically exempts fantasy sports games, educational games, and other online contests that meet certain conditions. A participant's team (if any) must not be "based on the current membership of an actual team." Outcomes must "reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and [be] determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events." All prizing must be determined in advance of the competition and can not be influenced by the fees or number of participants.

It's really not that hard to understand nor to find anything that sums it up. it was legislation to rule on transfer of funds online for illegal gambling, except for the industries that had powerful enough lobbies to gain statute exemptions, that being state lotteries, horse racing, and DFS. Congress/Senate does not have enough Barney Franks to get the same treatment for poker.

The UIGEA does not say DFS is not gambling, along with horse racing and lotteries. It's just saying its allowed to be gambled on as long as certain conditions are met.

Games of skill can be gambling. If two people wagered money on chess, that is still a bet. No one is bothering to run Chessduel though because its just not big, and under the UIGEA that would then be considered illegal despite being a game of skill.

DFS, h2h, two people pick the exact same team, they still lose money because of the house rake.

I can see a difference between skill basked gambling and pure luck gambling though.

Skilled
-DFS
-Horse racing
-Poker
-Moneylines

Pure luck
-Roulette
-Video slot machines
-Bingo

The UIGEA can carve out whatever language they want to exclude DFS but at its essence, it still falls under the definition of gambling that the whole world adheres to. It's legal gambling, or what most distinctly call gaming.

the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

It's not even hard to go to rotogrinders and find agreement from the whole community that they admit the same too.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/las-vegas-inspired-by-jets-season-ticket-drive/

Winnipeg helped Vegas folks get their ticket drive going

 

[TheLegend]

By what accounts is DFS considered "gambling?"

No fantasy sports game is considered gambling because it isnt a game of chance.

Although I would expect the NHL to just go the UNLV route and have the local games taken off the sportsbooks

It's already state law that Nevada-based teams are not allowed to be offered in the books.