NHL scheduling with shared NBA Arenas

[LightningStorm]

Of the big 4 leagues, the NHL & NBA have, in my opinion, the most interesting relationship between any 2 leagues. They are the only 2 who's seasons run more or less parallel to each other, and are also the only 2 leagues which commonly share venues with teams in the same market (formerly common with the NFL and MLB, but that started going out of style around 2000). 10 arenas are shared between both leagues, so scheduling conflicts need to be sorted out.

After looking up who the owners of the 10 arenas are, I noticed none of them have the NBA team as sole owner. All 10 are either publically owned, jointly owned, or NHL owned. The NHL schedule is usually released in late June, immediately after the previous season. Meanwhile, the NBA schedule is not released until early August, as they let free agency play out so they can schedule their most appealing games on national TV and Christmas.

With the NHL schedule being released first and none of the 10 shared arenas having the NBA team as the sole owner, does this mean the NHL gets priority and doesn't have to worry about NBA conflicts in the 10 arenas when making the schedule? This, in turn, would mean the NBA has to adapt their schedule to the NHL in those arenas. From the outside looking in it appears the NHL gets first choice when it comes to regular season scheduling.

 

[LightningStorm]

The 10 arenas and their owners are as follows:

American Airlines Center (City of Dallas)
Ball Arena (Kroenke owns both teams)
Capitol One Arena (Leonsis owns both teams)
Crypto.com Arena (Kings & Lakers jointly own)
Little Caesars Arena (City of Detroit)
Madison Square Garden (Dolan owns both teams)
Scotiabank Arena (MLSE owns both teams)
TD Garden (Bruins owned)
United Center (Blackhawks/Bulls jointly owned)
Wells Fargo Center (Flyers owned)

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Crypto is owned by Kings only. But Kings owner have minority share in Lakers,

 

[Jumptheshark]

It is written into the nba rules that the NBA team has priority in the arenas. Learned this when I lived in Vancouver and the Grizzlies were there. While the NHL schedule comes out first it is partly because the nba has most of their schedule down pact.

If you want to go down a rabbit hole of crazy clauses. The NBA is a fun. Everything from private underground parking, to how early before game players can be at the arena and other fun stuff.

Best one is when a player changes numbers while on the same team. He has to pay the NBA due to the Jersey number clause

 

[gstommylee]

It is written into the nba rules that the NBA team has priority in the arenas. Learned this when I lived in Vancouver and the Grizzlies were there. While the NHL schedule comes out first it is partly because the nba has most of their schedule down pact.

If you want to go down a rabbit hole of crazy clauses. The NBA is a fun. Everything from private underground parking, to how early before game players can be at the arena and other fun stuff.

Best one is when a player changes numbers while on the same team. He has to pay the NBA due to the Jersey number clause

That Jersey number clause is common in sports. NFL has it. I believe its if the jersey number change happens in the middle of the season. I believe it also applies to name changes as well.

 

[LadyStanley]

I believe most shared venues have "agreements" on certain days of the week/weekend times.

NHL seems to be a T-Th-Sa league. On the weekend, with a good enough off ice crew, the arena can be reset in about 3 or so hours. So, there could be an afternoon game (~1pm start) for one and an evening game for the other (7pm start).

 

[gstommylee]

I believe most shared venues have "agreements" on certain days of the week/weekend times.

NHL seems to be a T-Th-Sa league. On the weekend, with a good enough off ice crew, the arena can be reset in about 3 or so hours. So, there could be an afternoon game (~1pm start) for one and an evening game for the other (7pm start).

Something like that wouldn't be possible in Seattle if we get the NBA back. Since there's a city law that says there has to be 4 hours between when a game ends and when the next game can begin to deal with traffic if both are on the same day.

 

[aqib]

Has there ever been a case where one teams game ran late and resulted in the second teams game not starting on time as a result?

 

[gstommylee]

Has there ever been a case where one teams game ran late and resulted in the second teams game not starting on time as a result?

I haven't heard that happening between NBA and NHL on the same day.

 

[LadyStanley]

Has there ever been a case where one teams game ran late and resulted in the second teams game not starting on time as a result?

Playoffs are unpredictable. Usually avoid scheduling on the same day due to that.

 

[LightningStorm]

I believe most shared venues have "agreements" on certain days of the week/weekend times.

NHL seems to be a T-Th-Sa league. On the weekend, with a good enough off ice crew, the arena can be reset in about 3 or so hours. So, there could be an afternoon game (~1pm start) for one and an evening game for the other (7pm start).

Found this article from a few years ago: Comparing Schedules of Dual and Single Anchor Tenant Arenas - NHL to SEATTLE

Stats provided from the article confirm the NHL being a T-Th-Sat league, with the NBA being mostly W-F, with Saturday barely edging out Monday for 3rd. It appears to be a general agreement between the 2 leagues, as the differences between single and dual arenas are rather inconsequential. And while Saturday is the most common shared day of the week (1st for NHL, 3rd for NBA), HNIC is the big Saturday night event for the NHL, and Toronto is the only shared venue in Canada.

I haven't heard that happening between NBA and NHL on the same day.

The Staples Center in 2012 was the only year I can remember an arena hosting both in the same day, with the Kings having an afternoon game and the Clippers a night one. But that was only because all 3 teams were still in the playoffs. In all other 2 team arenas, they would never schedule a playoff game in the same day.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I haven't heard that happening between NBA and NHL on the same day.

Boston and LA. Has happened a couple of times in my life.

Basketball started at like noon and hockey was supposed to start at like 1930 and something happened to cause the hockey game to start at 2030. This was a few years ago[ I am old,]

 

[aqib]

Playoffs are unpredictable. Usually avoid scheduling on the same day due to that.

I know they avoid it, but I recall LA having Lakers/Clippers/Kings games over the same weekend so they had more than one in the same day. Boston did as well in the old Garden.

 

[jkrdevil]

I haven't heard that happening between NBA and NHL on the same day.

Not sure about during the playoffs, but it is common during the regular season. As I kid I remember one time going to a Devils game at the Meadowlands during the day and then going to a Nets game that night. I know currently the Prudential Center and the arena in Washington (forgot the sponsors name as I don’t think it is the Verizon Center anymore) will have college basketball during the day and hockey at nights some weekends. MSG too.

 

[LightningStorm]

I know currently the Prudential Center and the arena in Washington (forgot the sponsors name as I don’t think it is the Verizon Center anymore) will have college basketball during the day and hockey at nights some weekends. MSG too.

There's 5 NHL arenas with a college basketball tenant.

MSG: St. John's
Prudential Center: Seton Hall
Wells Fargo Center: Villanova
Capitol One Arena: Georgetown
PNC Arena: North Carolina State

NC State is the only one who plays in the arena full time though.

 

[LightningStorm]

From what I remember about playoff scheduling in instances where both teams seasons are still active is it's typically first come first serve. The SCP are often half a round ahead of the NBA playoffs in a typical season, so the SCP R1 would need to adjust to the end of the NBA regular season. Then the NBA R1 would need to adjust to the NHL R1 arena schedule.

For an example of this playing out, games 3 & 4 in Dallas in the 2008 Stars/Sharks R2 series needed to be played on back to back days because the day after that the Mavericks already had a R1 game scheduled against the Hornets the day after.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Many assume the Bulls have priority over the United Center because they have Saturday home games, while the Hawks play a lot of Sundays.

That is factually inaccurate, the Hawks Sunday tradition predates the Bulls' existence.

I took a look at 1960-61, the Cup year 6 years before the Bulls were around, and that season they played 18 of their 35 home games on Sundays, with only 1 Saturday.

In 1949-50, the 1st year of the 70 game schedule, they played 16 Sundays and 0 Saturdays.

No idea why this is a thing. Maybe it goes back to Chicago Stadium's boxing origins? That's all I can think of.

 

[LadyStanley]

AHL teams can be impacted too

 

[LightningStorm]

AHL teams can be impacted too

In addition to the 10 shared NHL/NBA arenas, there's 5 more hockey/basketball arenas that at least one of the leagues plays in. Some I've already mentioned in my post on the college basketball teams.

Carolina: Hurricanes and NC St. NCAAB
Cleveland: Cavaliers and Monsters (AHL)
Orlando: Magic and Solar Bears (ECHL)
New Jersey: Devils and Seton Hall NCAAB
Seattle: Kraken and Storm (WNBA). Though WNBA season is in the summer during the NHL offseason.

 

[LightningStorm]

While the Cavs led to a rescheduled game for the AHL's monsters, the Kings next play at Crypto on Saturday, so Friday's Clippers play in game doesn't interfere.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Many assume the Bulls have priority over the United Center because they have Saturday home games, while the Hawks play a lot of Sundays.

That is factually inaccurate, the Hawks Sunday tradition predates the Bulls' existence.

I took a look at 1960-61, the Cup year 6 years before the Bulls were around, and that season they played 18 of their 35 home games on Sundays, with only 1 Saturday.

In 1949-50, the 1st year of the 70 game schedule, they played 16 Sundays and 0 Saturdays.

No idea why this is a thing. Maybe it goes back to Chicago Stadium's boxing origins? That's all I can think of.

It would appear they have been playing an inordinate number of Sunday games since 1928-29, only their third season of existence. That was the season they moved to Chicago Stadium, the move taking place midseason due to construction delays. It does indeed appear that something about Chicago Stadium caused the Sunday scheduling.

Boxing would be a reasonable explanation, since that was the heyday of boxing and the Hawks were a poorly-run and low-attended organization at the time. But a quick glance at old news coverage suggests that other events were also scheduled on Saturday nights (e.g. a Boy Scout convention, a bike race) and it really doesn't explain why the Hawks would continue getting scheduled for Sundays long after boxing stopped drawing big crowds.

I'd be interested to know the inside story of this, if it exists. Common sense would have NHL games on Saturday nights over almost any other event.

 

[LightningStorm]

Mavericks have a noon playoff game today before the Stars/Sharks game at 7.

 

[Section 104]

From what I remember in the 1970s the Buffalo Sabres had scheduling preference at the “Aud” over the NBA Buffalo Braves (present day Los Angeles Clippers) as did attempts to revive college basketball. I think the Sabres got started earlier plus the Knox brothers that owned the team were more connected in the community as wealthy philanthropists (Albright-Knox museum for example).

 

[Section 104]

It would appear they have been playing an inordinate number of Sunday games since 1928-29, only their third season of existence. That was the season they moved to Chicago Stadium, the move taking place midseason due to construction delays. It does indeed appear that something about Chicago Stadium caused the Sunday scheduling.

Boxing would be a reasonable explanation, since that was the heyday of boxing and the Hawks were a poorly-run and low-attended organization at the time. But a quick glance at old news coverage suggests that other events were also scheduled on Saturday nights (e.g. a Boy Scout convention, a bike race) and it really doesn't explain why the Hawks would continue getting scheduled for Sundays long after boxing stopped drawing big crowds.

I'd be interested to know the inside story of this, if it exists. Common sense would have NHL games on Saturday nights over almost any other event.

I was under the impression that in New York the Rangers on Sunday night was kind of tradition…and in the old days when Stan Fischler was a young man the minor league New York Rovers would play a day game on Sunday before the Rangers game. I saw something recently that the Rangers played their game Sunday evening when Pearl Harbor was attacked 12/7/1941 although why it wasn’t postponed wasn’t mentioned…perhaps the league offices were in Canada and war wasn’t formally declared until the next day against Japan.
In 1976 my parents had HBO for a year when it was virtually unknown and a Sunday night Ranger game was usually broadcast.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I was under the impression that in New York the Rangers on Sunday night was kind of tradition…

Thinking it through a bit more over the past few days — from a business point of view, these larger American stadiums (MSG and Chicago Stadium) may have preferred to book up all those winter Sundays with hockey, leaving the Saturday nights open to entice promoters of other events.

That approach probably made a lot of sense in the early days because pro hockey was less of a surefire money maker than it would be after the war. And then continued to make sense after the war because of the way the Hawks and Rangers were managed as second-class citizens with predictable effects on attendance.

What still doesn’t make sense to me is why this would have continued into the expansion era. I can see it for nationally televised games, but random October games? You’d think they would want to play Saturday night, to drive up ticket prices.