NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[mouser]

Not supposed to piss off potential customers.

And now the NHL is talking out of both sides of their mouth about expansion, they moved Phoenix, and according to Forbes (which is all we have), only a handful of teams are worth 1 billion plus.


Where is he wrong?

Forbes franchise estimates are always reactive, not proactive. No one thought a below average NBA team was worth $2B until Balmer bought the Clippers.

The 2023 Forbes guesstimates have 21 of 32 NHL teams valued at $1B+, hardly a handful. And since their 2023 publication two of the bottom 11 sold for $1B+.

I’m predicting when the new 2024 Forbes list comes out later this year they’ll have 25+ of 32 teams at $1B+ valuations.

 

[Voight]

Supply and demand is the only thing driving up team valuations.

Well, no kidding, Owning a NA pro sports team puts you in a. exclusive club of 124 (across the big four leagues) or 154 if you include MLS. There's 1,011 Billionaires in North America (obviously not all of them care to own. sports team).

It's why Ballmer overpaid for the Clippers. He desperately wanted to be in said club.

 

[ponder719]

Well, no kidding, Owning a NA pro sports team puts you in a. exclusive club of 124 (across the big four leagues) or 154 if you include MLS. There's 1,011 Billionaires in North America (obviously not all of them care to own. sports team).

It's why Ballmer overpaid for the Clippers. He desperately wanted to be in said club.

And of course the number's materially smaller than 124/154 (if you're looking at controlling ownership only), because of the number of teams owned by the same person or family (Josh Harris with the Sixers, Commanders, and Devils, Stan Kroenke with the Rams, Nuggets, Rapids, and Avalanche, etc.), and the lone outlier of the Green Bay Packers. If you truly want in, you have very, very few opportunities, so you have to maximize them when they come open.

 

[aqib]

All true, but he wants an arena. Not sure Harris County will give him one without an NHL team.

What is any of that based on?

Not supposed to piss off potential customers.

And now the NHL is talking out of both sides of their mouth about expansion, they moved Phoenix, and according to Forbes (which is all we have), only a handful of teams are worth 1 billion plus.


Where is he wrong?

The league always talks out of both sides of its mouth on expansion and relocation. The Thrashers weren't going anywhere until they were. At the All-Star Game Bettman said he beleived AM was heading towards a deal. The Coyotes were staying until the last week.

Forbes said a year ago the average NHL team is worth $1.33B and valued 21 out of 32 at over $1 billion. Thats far from a handful.

https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-valuations/ One of the ones below a billion was the Coyotes who just sold for $1.2B. Forbes also said that valuations went up 29% from 2023. If you added another 29% to all the other teams everyone but Buffalo and Columbus would be over $1 billion.

If you put out an open bid at say $1.4 billion you would get multiple bids but not from Fertita. Someone not willing to pay your price is not a potential customer. If I'm not willing to pay $100 for a lobster then I'm not a potential customer of a highend lobster restaurant.

 

[aqib]

Well, no kidding, Owning a NA pro sports team puts you in a. exclusive club of 124 (across the big four leagues) or 154 if you include MLS. There's 1,011 Billionaires in North America (obviously not all of them care to own. sports team).

It's why Ballmer overpaid for the Clippers. He desperately wanted to be in said club.

Honestly I think there are more billionaires than that. The only ones that get on the list are the ones who own publicly traded companies. Part fo the reason MLS teams have gone up in value is that's the only league you can buy into for under $1B. The NFL only broke into $1B territory in 2012. Now $1B only gets you small market NHL

 

[StreetHawk]

If you put out an open bid at say $1.4 billion you would get multiple bids but not from Fertita. Someone not willing to pay your price is not a potential customer. If I'm not willing to pay $100 for a lobster then I'm not a potential customer of a highend lobster restaurant.

End of the day, arenas mean everything in the sports world. If in the end, neither side budges between the NHL and TF, then Houston won't get a team. Each city/county is different, so maybe there isn't a situation that would make an ATL type plan work in the Houston area.

With regards to the Toyota Center, haven't heard anything negative about it. What is unique about it is that Les Alexander didn't want fans to walk up to the seats, so the arena, like Climate Pledge in seattle, dug down a couple of stories. If it has the space to allow for all of the current trends in sports arenas, I would expect them to just do a renovation on it.

 

[Melrose Munch]

What is any of that based on?



The league always talks out of both sides of its mouth on expansion and relocation. The Thrashers weren't going anywhere until they were. At the All-Star Game Bettman said he beleived AM was heading towards a deal. The Coyotes were staying until the last week.

Forbes said a year ago the average NHL team is worth $1.33B and valued 21 out of 32 at over $1 billion. Thats far from a handful.

https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-valuations/ One of the ones below a billion was the Coyotes who just sold for $1.2B. Forbes also said that valuations went up 29% from 2023. If you added another 29% to all the other teams everyone but Buffalo and Columbus would be over $1 billion.

If you put out an open bid at say $1.4 billion you would get multiple bids but not from Fertita. Someone not willing to pay your price is not a potential customer. If I'm not willing to pay $100 for a lobster then I'm not a potential customer of a highend lobster restaurant.

Toyota center is getting up there in years. Sure, they could renovate, but would it not be better to lock down an extra 40 or so dates to justify the cost?
Ok so I was looking at the older forbes lists, to be fair, but tbf they don't have all the info. My point is that I'm not sure he is wrong when saying the return on profit or otherwise costs don't justify the expenditure.

You're right that he's not a customer, but they need him more because there are no other groups in the Houston area, unlike Atlanta. I'm sure we don't think the Coyotes were actually worth 1.2 billion. But they sold as that. And you're right Fertita won't want to pay that. The NHL should be realistic with its prices.

 

[StreetHawk]

Toyota center is getting up there in years. Sure, they could renovate, but would it not be better to lock down an extra 40 or so dates to justify the cost?

The Toyota Center was built and designed to accommodate NHL hockey. They did have ice machines, which were removed after the Aeros left, but have/can be re-installed. They don't need a new arena to host an NHL team, Toyota Center can do that.

For a comparison, the Texans stadium opened in 2002 a year earlier. I don't think that's pending a tear down in the next decade. Personally, I do shake my head at how quickly it appears a lot of sports teams want to replace their current stadium/arena. Titans stadium opened in 1999 and they will have a new one in the coming years. It's 25 years old this year.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The Toyota Center was built and designed to accommodate NHL hockey. They did have ice machines, which were removed after the Aeros left, but have/can be re-installed. They don't need a new arena to host an NHL team, Toyota Center can do that.

For a comparison, the Texans stadium opened in 2002 a year earlier. I don't think that's pending a tear down in the next decade. Personally, I do shake my head at how quickly it appears a lot of sports teams want to replace their current stadium/arena. Titans stadium opened in 1999 and they will have a new one in the coming years. It's 25 years old this year.

That's what I'm getting at. Delta center is 32-33 years old and smith was pitching a new arena before getting the Coyotes. That's why to me Houston has an interest still. The titans thing is such nonsense, that field is nice too.

These owners don't need an arena, but they want one.

 

[StreetHawk]

That's what I'm getting at. Delta center is 32-33 years old and smith was pitching a new arena before getting the Coyotes. That's why to me Houston has an interest still. The titans thing is such nonsense, that field is nice too.

These owners don't need an arena, but they want one.

When it’s not their own money they want a new one. Crazy how easily the governments hand that over to them.
Delta Center isn’t configured for the nhl. So that I get. Same reason AZ offered to build new to accommodate both suns and coyotes but suns said no as they had the arena management agreement and did t want to give up half of that revenue to the coyotes.

Footprint probably won’t last longer than when their lease with the suns is up in 2037. 45 years.