Rosters and Ratings: NHL 13 player growth

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beast8812

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
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So I have Mackinnon who is a 68 in the OHL right now, what is the best way to develop him? A year in the OHL then bring him up? I can bring him up now and play him on my 2nd line but I will be sitting a decent player to develop him. Im in a GM connected league so I'm looking for the fastest way to grow him, even if it means sacrificing this season.
 

Flair Hay

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Jun 22, 2010
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For player development, my general rule of thumb is this:

Start them in the AHL when they are 65+
Give them NHL time when they are 70+
Full time NHLers at 75+. If you have a player with offensive potential, make sure to give them plenty of powerplay time.

Thanks for the tip. I'm using the Jets and trying to quickly retool them by grabbing some extra picks. I have four first rounders this year, but will probably have to trade 2 to get one of the Mooseheads. If Drouin is in the 65-70 range do I want to send him back to junior?

I'll have Scheifele NHL ready by year two I'm hoping that mitigate's trading half my depth for a guy still playing CHL.

Also, any suggestions on what defenseman would be a good partner to play LD with Bogosian? Preferably a Hal Gill type that can skate...Nurse and Zadarov are the Craig Button candidates I have so far.
 

ImpartialNHLfan

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Oct 26, 2011
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So I have Mackinnon who is a 68 in the OHL right now, what is the best way to develop him? A year in the OHL then bring him up? I can bring him up now and play him on my 2nd line but I will be sitting a decent player to develop him. Im in a GM connected league so I'm looking for the fastest way to grow him, even if it means sacrificing this season.

Mackinnon won't be useful until season 3-4. Dosent matter what you do. But he does get good eventually.
 

Kellogs

G'night Sweet Prince
Dec 23, 2008
3,129
16
Ottawa
Thanks for the tip. I'm using the Jets and trying to quickly retool them by grabbing some extra picks. I have four first rounders this year, but will probably have to trade 2 to get one of the Mooseheads. If Drouin is in the 65-70 range do I want to send him back to junior?

I'll have Scheifele NHL ready by year two I'm hoping that mitigate's trading half my depth for a guy still playing CHL.

Also, any suggestions on what defenseman would be a good partner to play LD with Bogosian? Preferably a Hal Gill type that can skate...Nurse and Zadarov are the Craig Button candidates I have so far.

It really depends on the kind of team you have. If you have room for him and can guarantee he'll get PP/PK time without getting injured too much, then possibly keep him in the NHL. I would probably keep him in the CHL for the first year, and definitely so if he's less than 70 OVR. My player development strategy has been to never play a prospect in a position he can't succeed in. That means when I introduce a player to the NHL, he gets sheltered minutes (3rd/4th lines or bottom pairing), but then if he has upside, then I try to make sure he also gets PP/PK time to develop their offensive/defensive games.

For example, in my previous BeAGM, I drafted Josh Morrisey 5th overall and he came out at 70 OVR. His offensive attributes and skating were already at an NHL level and good enough to be one of my top-4 offensively gifted defensemen so I kept him up and played him on the bottom pairing, but gave him plenty of PP time and occasional PK time when injuries crept up. He went on to score ~38 points, and skyrocketed to an 84 overall the following season.
 

Yokai

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Mar 29, 2011
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Ottawa
It really depends on the kind of team you have. If you have room for him and can guarantee he'll get PP/PK time without getting injured too much, then possibly keep him in the NHL. I would probably keep him in the CHL for the first year, and definitely so if he's less than 70 OVR. My player development strategy has been to never play a prospect in a position he can't succeed in. That means when I introduce a player to the NHL, he gets sheltered minutes (3rd/4th lines or bottom pairing), but then if he has upside, then I try to make sure he also gets PP/PK time to develop their offensive/defensive games.

For example, in my previous BeAGM, I drafted Josh Morrisey 5th overall and he came out at 70 OVR. His offensive attributes and skating were already at an NHL level and good enough to be one of my top-4 offensively gifted defensemen so I kept him up and played him on the bottom pairing, but gave him plenty of PP time and occasional PK time when injuries crept up. He went on to score ~38 points, and skyrocketed to an 84 overall the following season.

"For player development, my general rule of thumb is this:

Start them in the AHL when they are 65+
Give them NHL time when they are 70+
Full time NHLers at 75+. If you have a player with offensive potential, make sure to give them plenty of powerplay time."

Have you found that these tactics work on players that never show any growth though? Like say for example a player like Marcus Johansson who seems to never get better through the first few years. From my experiences a player like Josh Morrissey always shoots up by a ton after the first season regardless of CHL/NHL playing time. These types of player will continue to grow by leaps and bounds no matter what type of year they have. On the other hand you have other prospects that barely jump up at all regardless of where they are played unless they have ridiculous seasons.

The only way to make some players jump up is to literally play every game and force them to score 70-80 points. For example if I have an 81 OVR twenty year old sniper and I sim for a season in which he gets 50 points, then potentially he might go up to 82. Now if I play the game myself and get him up to the 70-80 point range then all of a sudden he jumps up to 84-86 in the off season. The problem with this type of player is that as soon as you sim another 50-60 point season then the player drops right back down to 81-83 OVR. Eventually some of these players start making huge leaps at the age of 24 to 25, but again that does not seem to relate to how you actually "use" the player.

My basic strategy has just become: look at the players in the draft with the highest stats in shooting, puck skills, senses, physical, and defense. Those five categories tend to contain the stats that sky rocket for players who develop quickly regardless of use, and it is an easy way to see which 60-70 OVR players are likely to make a huge jump during the growth period. Frankly player development in this game seems to be a joke. I would go back to playing NHL 12 if it wasn't for the fact that you can actually keep players into their late 30's at an elite level with this game's system.
 
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Kellogs

G'night Sweet Prince
Dec 23, 2008
3,129
16
Ottawa
"For player development, my general rule of thumb is this:

Start them in the AHL when they are 65+
Give them NHL time when they are 70+
Full time NHLers at 75+. If you have a player with offensive potential, make sure to give them plenty of powerplay time."

Have you found that these tactics work on players that never show any growth though? Like say for example a player like Marcus Johansson who seems to never get better through the first few years. From my experiences a player like Josh Morrissey always shoots up by a ton after the first season regardless of CHL/NHL playing time. These types of player will continue to grow by leaps and bounds no matter what type of year they have. On the other hand you have other prospects that barely jump up at all regardless of where they are played unless they have ridiculous seasons.

The only way to make some players jump up is to literally play every game and force them to score 70-80 points. For example if I have an 81 OVR twenty year old sniper and I sim for a season in which he gets 50 points, then potentially he might go up to 82. Now if I play the game myself and get him up to the 70-80 point range then all of a sudden he jumps up to 84-86 in the off season. The problem with this type of player is that as soon as you sim another 50-60 point season then the player drops right back down to 81-83 OVR. Eventually some of these players start making huge leaps at the age of 24 to 25, but again that does not seem to relate to how you actually "use" the player.

My general impression of this is that players will typically have a breakout where they experience a massive jump, and it is only after that breakout that you can determine what type of player a prospect will be. For the majority of players, that breakout occurs around around 23-25 yo, and for a rare few (like Morrisey, Huberdeau, Gaunce etc.) it occurs at earlier age around 18-19 yo. Away from that one season where players breakout, they will typically go up 1-3 overall points until I would say they reach their potential range.

I think once they reach their potential range in Overall and play at the NHL level, improvement is more dependent upon player performance. This is why young players like Kyle Turris, Marcus Johanssen etc. seem to grow slowly unless they put up really good numbers. It's probably why in my case, players that jumped really quickly progressed slowly afterwards. Morrisey went from 70->84->85->87. Huberdeau in my GM connected league went 66(?)->85->87 and has stayed there since. They have already reached their potential range. Like veterans who have already reached their potential, they improve based on the numbers they put up, possibly with less of a chance to decline than veterans.

You also have to take into account that attribute growth is not exactly linear (ie. going from 60-80 OA could increase your OVR by 5, but going from 80-85 could increase it by 5, going from 85-88 could increase it by 5 etc.). Players like Turris, Johanssen probably need to put up really good offensive seasons to experience significant growth, however if I recall correctly, their initial attributes does not lend itself to successful point production at the NHL level. I managed to get Turris to an 83 OVR before I quit that particular BeAGM game, and his highest point total was around 60 points. If he put up a PPG or near-PPG season, then I could see him experiencing more growth, but his starting attributes prevent him from doing so in situations where someone like Spezza goes down long term.

My basic strategy has just become: look at the players in the draft with the highest stats in shooting, puck skills, senses, physical, and defense. Those five categories tend to contain the stats that sky rocket for players who develop quickly regardless of use, and it is an easy way to see which 60-70 OVR players are likely to make a huge jump during the growth period. Frankly player development in this game seems to be a joke. I would go back to playing NHL 12 if it wasn't for the fact that you can actually keep players into their late 30's at an elite level with this game's system.

That's essentially my strategy as well. I always assume the player will not have a massive early breakout, but instead will progress regularly and slowly. That way it's easier to project what type of player he becomes. If they do happen to have a massive jump like you would see with Huberdeau or Morrisey, then it's a pleasant surprise. That being said, I do have some crazy theories/ideas as to why player development behaves this way.

My first idea is that like NHL 12, players have different potential ratings for the attribute categories (Senses, Shooting, Defense, Physical, Puck Skills, Skating). What gave me that impression was once when I was scouting, I noticed a player was listed as having 4.5 green stars for his Senses. Generally, I was under the impression that it reflected the actual average rating of that player's attributes in that category. However, the ratings themselves were also shown as green, and they were considerably low, probably closer to a 2.5-3.0 star rating. This leads me to believe that when scouting, the stars give you the growth potential of each category, and the potential rating a player has is in fact the average of the six attribute potential, much like it was in NHL 12. After you've drafted them, the stars change meaning and provide the average skill level in that attribute category. The only problem with this theory is, it implies the devs would have gone in and given each prospect and player with yellow, green and red potential individual potential ratings for the six categories. And what about created players? You only give them the overall potential rating. Would it assign that same potential rating to all the categories, or would it randomly assign potential ratings such that the average is equal to the overall potential rating?

My second theory is that the potential shown in game is not working properly, and certain players who are shown as having yellow potential, should in fact have green or red potential. I get this idea from the Iphone app with GM connected. Many players shown as having yellow potential, had in fact green or red potential, at least according to the app. At the time I didn't explore it in too much detail, but I do recall clearly that Huberdeau was 4.5 green star for me, although he was listed as 4.5 yellow star in-game. Not sure if it's a bug with the game, or the app, but if it was in fact a bug with the game, then it could explain why only certain players have these massive jumps early on, and the rest just develop at a regular pace.

My final theory (which sort of invalidates my first one), is that a certain attribute or combination of attributes determine whether a player will experience a massive breakout at a young age. For example, it could be that when a player reaches or has 75 poise, all his attributes experience a big jump if he's 18-19. If it doesn't occur when the player is young, then he follows a more steady development path dependent on his potential until he's around 23-25 where he'll experience a slightly smaller jump that will bring that player to his ceiling.
 

Yokai

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Mar 29, 2011
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Ottawa
The fact that this system seems impossible to figure out seems to be the most frustrating part of it haha. That is an interesting theory on the different potential ratings for each category. It might explain why most prospects never seem to really grow all that much in terms of certain attributes. Perhaps it is because I haven't been paying close enough attention, but it seems like strength, face-offs, and balance rarely if ever improve very much. If I recall correctly face-offs would go up in 12 if the player took a lot of draws.
 

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
11,622
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Killarney, MB
Player development is all over the place in this game. I traded to get a computer generated recently drafted 4.5 star player who was in Jrs still. I forget what he was rated but I traded Evander Kane and three years of my 1st round picks. His first year after Jrs he was rated 84.......... I dont know how but boom there it was...from the Jrs to my second line lmao....meanwhile I have two 4 star players struggling to make it out of the AHL in their 3rd years.

It is fun though to find a gem like that I guess, just wish I had more control on development.
 

Kellogs

G'night Sweet Prince
Dec 23, 2008
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Ottawa
The fact that this system seems impossible to figure out seems to be the most frustrating part of it haha. That is an interesting theory on the different potential ratings for each category. It might explain why most prospects never seem to really grow all that much in terms of certain attributes. Perhaps it is because I haven't been paying close enough attention, but it seems like strength, face-offs, and balance rarely if ever improve very much. If I recall correctly face-offs would go up in 12 if the player took a lot of draws.

I think this may in part be because of the statistical growth portion of the engine. It seems certain players don't improve in those aspects, but I think it may be the case where they simply suck so much at that attribute, they can't really do well at it to improve. Using faceoffs as an example, I would imagine that the better your faceoff percentage, the more chance there is for that player to improve on it. However, if you're faceoff is really low to begin with, since many center prospects seem to start with a 60 rating in the attribute, it's just too low for them to win enough draws which would warrant an attribute increase. I've noticed a similar thing with shooting attributes. A player has to have a decent amount to start with once they're drafted which allows them to score a sufficient number of goals at the AHL/NHL level.

Morrisey or pulock?

Morrissey, see my post above.

Player development is all over the place in this game. I traded to get a computer generated recently drafted 4.5 star player who was in Jrs still. I forget what he was rated but I traded Evander Kane and three years of my 1st round picks. His first year after Jrs he was rated 84.......... I dont know how but boom there it was...from the Jrs to my second line lmao....meanwhile I have two 4 star players struggling to make it out of the AHL in their 3rd years.

It is fun though to find a gem like that I guess, just wish I had more control on development.

Perhaps that big jump is only possible with 4.5+ star players? For me I'm pretty sure Morrissey was 4.5 star, and every other player that's had a big jump like that for me was 4.5 stars (Huberdeau, Galchenyuk).
 

Troller1988

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Feb 8, 2013
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For rookies/ players just drafted that is the case. Only 4.5 star rookies make a impact after a couple of years. For players already in the nhl/ahl, doesn't really matter what their potential is. I've had derick brassard (4 stars) jump from 79 to 84 and then 88. Jamie Mcbain 78 ovr (4 star) jumped from 78 to 85 to 87 to an 89
 

Yokai

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Mar 29, 2011
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Ottawa
I have had 3 star, 3.5 star, and 4 star drafted players all make big jumps. "Big" jumps for these types of players are usually mid eighties though, so it depends on high you mean. 4.5 star players tend to jump right over 85, but you can find lower potential players that will get better quickly as well. Easy way to spot them is their high shooting categories right from draft day.
 

Kellogs

G'night Sweet Prince
Dec 23, 2008
3,129
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Ottawa
I think you're on to something. I was looking over some of my drafted prospects last night from the 2013 draft, and I had two of them who made significant gains in the off-season compared to the rest: Geertsen and Erne. So I tried looking at which attributes they had in common, considering they had different potentials (3.5 & 4.0 respectively). I also had another 4.0 star prospect (Klimchuk) who barely went up 1 overall. I looked at everything, poise, discipline, offensive awareness, skating attributes etc. but the only thing they had in common that Klimchuk didn't have was decently high shooting attributes. Both Geertsen and Erne had their Shooting powers in the 80s, and their accuracies in the high 70s. Klimchuk on the other hand has these in the mid-high 70s and high 60s.

On another note, for those who said it was not possible to get late round steals, I may have pulled off two in the same draft. Geertsen as mentioned above was drafted in the 4th round as 70 OVR (!!) and has now jumped to 79 OVR as a 19 year old. I think I'll send him for another year in Junior so I expect him to be at least 81-82 OVR when he starts his NHL career as a 20 year old. Another good one is Craig Hottot (2.5 star yellow potential) drafted in the 6th round at 67 OVR and he had a massive jump despite being unsigned growing to a 72 OVR. I think leaving him unsigned one more season should probably net an increase to 74-75 OVR at which point he'll get AHL & part time NHL duties. I think he projects easily at least as a bottom six forward by the time he's 24 (he's 22 now).
 

nicholas89alex

Registered User
Nov 16, 2012
1,045
43
I think you're on to something. I was looking over some of my drafted prospects last night from the 2013 draft, and I had two of them who made significant gains in the off-season compared to the rest: Geertsen and Erne. So I tried looking at which attributes they had in common, considering they had different potentials (3.5 & 4.0 respectively). I also had another 4.0 star prospect (Klimchuk) who barely went up 1 overall. I looked at everything, poise, discipline, offensive awareness, skating attributes etc. but the only thing they had in common that Klimchuk didn't have was decently high shooting attributes. Both Geertsen and Erne had their Shooting powers in the 80s, and their accuracies in the high 70s. Klimchuk on the other hand has these in the mid-high 70s and high 60s.

On another note, for those who said it was not possible to get late round steals, I may have pulled off two in the same draft. Geertsen as mentioned above was drafted in the 4th round as 70 OVR (!!) and has now jumped to 79 OVR as a 19 year old. I think I'll send him for another year in Junior so I expect him to be at least 81-82 OVR when he starts his NHL career as a 20 year old. Another good one is Craig Hottot (2.5 star yellow potential) drafted in the 6th round at 67 OVR and he had a massive jump despite being unsigned growing to a 72 OVR. I think leaving him unsigned one more season should probably net an increase to 74-75 OVR at which point he'll get AHL & part time NHL duties. I think he projects easily at least as a bottom six forward by the time he's 24 (he's 22 now).

be careful with these projections. I've often had it happen where a guy grew a bunch one year then never improved again or even lost overall points
 

Locke214

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
8
0
I don't get this system at all i tested trying to get Tom Wilson of Washington to improve he is 3.5 Gold Star I played him two years in a row on the top of the AHL he had 112 points the first year and around 85 second year with a +22 and he only went up 3 points each year so I decided to give him 1st line minutes in the NHL he was 23 and 67 overall he ended up getting 39 points and the next offseason at 24 he went up to a 75. So if i give him 1st line minutes again will i see another big jump as he turns 25 and his production increases?
 

Troller1988

Registered User
Feb 8, 2013
73
0
I don't get this system at all i tested trying to get Tom Wilson of Washington to improve he is 3.5 Gold Star I played him two years in a row on the top of the AHL he had 112 points the first year and around 85 second year with a +22 and he only went up 3 points each year so I decided to give him 1st line minutes in the NHL he was 23 and 67 overall he ended up getting 39 points and the next offseason at 24 he went up to a 75. So if i give him 1st line minutes again will i see another big jump as he turns 25 and his production increases?

It's not all becuz u put him on your first line. Players generally break out when they r around 24/25. So Wilson should go up signifacantly
 

Locke214

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
8
0
It's not all becuz u put him on your first line. Players generally break out when they r around 24/25. So Wilson should go up signifacantly

So after he has his break out around that age say he continues putting up around 70-80 points playing on the 1st line will his overall/attributes grow to say around 88-89?
 

Troller1988

Registered User
Feb 8, 2013
73
0
Can't guarantee anything as some prospects just end up being busts. Give him power play and penalty killing time and he should grow well
 

Locke214

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
8
0
Anybody see rnh develop over an 83? That's the highest he's gone for me

I believe he is a 86 in my gm game. Also I know some draft picks can be busts but if stats are suppose to influence progression how much does it actually matter compared to potential stars. What i really want to know is can I take say a 3 star PLY center play him say for 4-5 years get around 70-80 points each year and him progress to around the overall skill of a Datsyuk.
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,688
5,417
I didn't pay attention to what overall he was, but Jonathan Drouin won the Hart, Art Ross, and Calder Trophy all in the same season for Anaheim.
 

Yokai

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
2,902
0
Ottawa
Has anyone figured out whether or not upgrading assistant coach actually does anything this year?

I know it used to help in development so I've always just upgraded it first anyways, but I am starting a new GM career and I'd rather not waste points. I wouldn't put it past EA to have removed the text about training despite the fact that it still does something. Just look at the GM tracker and you'll find various tasks that can no longer be completed yet still remain in the game.
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
30,390
23,073
Has anyone figured out whether or not upgrading assistant coach actually does anything this year?

I know it used to help in development so I've always just upgraded it first anyways, but I am starting a new GM career and I'd rather not waste points. I wouldn't put it past EA to have removed the text about training despite the fact that it still does something. Just look at the GM tracker and you'll find various tasks that can no longer be completed yet still remain in the game.

It still affects development.
 

Yokai

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
2,902
0
Ottawa
It still affects development.

Have you seen anyone present/experience tangible results that is does, or just heard that it does? In NHL12 you would could actually see that the players were growing by more in each stat if you compared multiple saves where you either left it alone or upgraded it. This year I really have not seen much of a difference when simulating through the first season with it at it's starting point or knocked up a few pegs. Could very well help some of the players that struggle to grow quickly, but that would only become apparent after a few seasons.
 

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