Confirmed with Link: Next head coach of the San Jose Sharks Upd it's Warsofsky

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Star Platinum

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May 11, 2024
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100% agree, but the Sharks suffer more when they have this kind of downswing. When the Warriors became good again, their attendance and interest just shot up like crazy. Same goes for Giants. When the Sharks become good again, it will take a lot longer for Bay Area casuals to get interested (again or even for the first time).

For the Sharks, it's a much slower process. As it is, I'll never forget that the 2016 SCF peaked at close to a 10 share (The peak was in Game 6) for local ratings. I suspect if Celebrini and company take this Sharks 2.0 to a cup final they could do better ratings than the Sharks did in 2016 SCF.

And of course, if the Sharks win a Cup, local interest could reach new heights.
Well, the NHL will never be the revenue spinner that the other leagues are, but the one thing the Sharks have going for them is that they are the only game in town in the South Bay. Even if hockey is not a natural sport for the Bay Area, being the only San Jose team will always work in the Sharks' favor *if* they're good.
 

STL Shark

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Well, what is the "end goal"? I am not saying he needs to win a Cup before I anoint him the saviour. Is just being on a legit path to being a contender again a valid enough "end goal"? Which we very well may be, there is obviously a ton of optimism. I just want to actually see it on the ice before I crown him. I don't think getting rid of players that have decent value on bad contracts is some masterstroke, but if people think it is, I will acquiesce. To me a masterstroke would be if he managed to get something for truly worthless pieces like Vlasic or a broken one in Couture. But again, I am not trying to argue the value of his trades. He has done what needs to be done so far on paper. Also, if you wanna say that he convinced ownership that we need to rebuild rather than continue with their insistence of retooling, then sure. That's a plus point to him. I don't know how much of that is Grier's power of convincing and how much is it that Hasso eventually had to face reality.

Now its a matter of all these, like I said, "lottery pieces" to start translating to on ice production. Can Mukh be a legit top 4 NHL defenceman? Are guys like Musty, Bystedt, even Will Smith going to turn into what they promise to be? Is he going to be able to get decent help this offseason for Celebrini, Smith and Eklund? I just wanna see some answers to this before I hang a poster of him on my wall.

Also, I don't really understand what being on the train means. I am a Sharks fan, I root for them to do well. That has never changed. Have I given the impression I am doing otherwise?
Well it was literally you that said you're not on the Grier train, so why don't you elaborate on what that means? That would seemingly imply that you're not a fan of him as the GM or think he's not doing the right things (based on how that phrase is historically used in conversatoin). You either were not a fan of the hire and don't think he's succeeding or are holding him to a standard to do something he's not yet been able to do simply by limits of what was inherited in addition to time before you give him his justified praise.

If Karlsson and Hertl didn't have robust no trade protection, maybe your elementary simplification of those deals would have some merit. However, because of that NTC and their salary and term left, the fact that he got first rounders (plus Edstrom and then Granlund that can be flipped for picks or stay and mentor our rookie centers) is a very large success (and should be treated as such). This isn't CapFriendly where you can just rid yourself of bad contracts with the push of a button. Getting ownership to approve on retention, player to waive no trade clause, and another team to agree to the deal (while also getting assets in return) is no small feat.
 

Skeksis25

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Well it was literally you that said you're not on the Grier train, so why don't you elaborate on what that means? That would seemingly imply that you're not a fan of him as the GM or think he's not doing the right things (based on how that phrase is historically used in conversatoin). You either were not a fan of the hire and don't think he's succeeding or are holding him to a standard to do something he's not yet been able to do simply by limits of what was inherited in addition to time before you give him his justified praise.

If Karlsson and Hertl didn't have robust no trade protection, maybe your elementary simplification of those deals would have some merit. However, because of that NTC and their salary and term left, the fact that he got first rounders (plus Edstrom and then Granlund that can be flipped for picks or stay and mentor our rookie centers) is a very large success (and should be treated as such). This isn't CapFriendly where you can just rid yourself of bad contracts with the push of a button. Getting ownership to approve on retention, player to waive no trade clause, and another team to agree to the deal (while also getting assets in return) is no small feat.

I said I'm not on the "In Grier we trust" train. By which I meant, I'm not ready to be comfortable in Grier as the guy who will lead us back to contention yet. Does not mean that he won't. I just want to see more before I'm ready to just accept his moves without any question.

Of course I say that knowing fully well that it doesn't matter what I question or don't, he isn't looking for my approval. All I'm saying is the jury is still out on him. I am not totally convinced that he is the guy who will get us where we want to be. But also, not saying that he isn't. Just want to see more.

With the trades, again, I am not going to argue the value. I will concede if you wanna tell me they were masterstrokes. I don't see them that way and what I have read about them around the league, it doesn't sound like many people think we made out like bandits. But if you say they were tremendous trades that no one else could have pulled off, fine. I'll accept it. I still want to see what the returns actually turn into.
 
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ChompChomp

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I think it's fair for people to not be at the point of saying "In Grier We Trust." It's very fair to wait to judge him as a GM after the rebuild is over. It's even possible that his moves can't/won't be judged until we have a next GM, if he is replaced before the kids he has brought in have fully developed. (Like how a lot of people give a lot of credit to Yzerman for the Tampa Cup teams this decade because much of the Tampa backbone were on players he drafted).
 

coooldude

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Hell, Dale Tallon was the Chicago GM from 2005-2009, then Stan Bowman came in and won the cup 3 times. Even before Tallon, the GM's (Pulford, Smith) drafted Keith, Seabrook, and Dave Bolland. Tallon drafted Toews, Kane, and Kyle Beach (sad)... (to be fair, Kane was obvious and Toews, if missed, would have been Backstrom) while Bowman drafted pretty much nobodies the entire time they were winning the cup.

All Bowman did was get rid of Havlat and add Hossa and seems like (eyeballing) pretty much all the other major players were the same. Tallon seems to have built the first team to win, anyway.

If that's what Grier's tenure looks like, as the builder who gets sacrificed so someone else can take the glory, holy shit, I'll take it.
 

Hodge

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Apr 27, 2021
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It doesn't matter whether Grier is the guy who leads us back into contention or not. Hopefully he is because that probably means it happened pretty fast but if not who cares?

My point is that by shedding the toxic Karlsson and Hertl contracts, avoiding the Timo landmine and most importantly landing us Celebrini, his moves have already irreversibly improved this franchise's trajectory for the next 7-10 years. Whether or not he ends up being the GM to see it through is irrelevant.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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Well, what is the "end goal"? I am not saying he needs to win a Cup before I anoint him the saviour. Is just being on a legit path to being a contender again a valid enough "end goal"? Which we very well may be, there is obviously a ton of optimism. I just want to actually see it on the ice before I crown him. I don't think getting rid of players that have decent value on bad contracts is some masterstroke, but if people think it is, I will acquiesce. To me a masterstroke would be if he managed to get something for truly worthless pieces like Vlasic or a broken one in Couture. But again, I am not trying to argue the value of his trades. He has done what needs to be done so far on paper. Also, if you wanna say that he convinced ownership that we need to rebuild rather than continue with their insistence of retooling, then sure. That's a plus point to him. I don't know how much of that is Grier's power of convincing and how much is it that Hasso eventually had to face reality.

Now its a matter of all these, like I said, "lottery pieces" to start translating to on ice production. Can Mukh be a legit top 4 NHL defenceman? Are guys like Musty, Bystedt, even Will Smith going to turn into what they promise to be? Is he going to be able to get decent help this offseason for Celebrini, Smith and Eklund? I just wanna see some answers to this before I hang a poster of him on my wall.

Also, I don't really understand what being on the train means. I am a Sharks fan, I root for them to do well. That has never changed. Have I given the impression I am doing otherwise?
I'm sure Grier's end goal is a competitive team first. What that looks like is up for interpretation. If you want to see it on the ice, you're still going to be waiting a while but at least there will be someone on the ice besides Eklund and Zetterlund that looks like a fixture for the team's future when they draft Celebrini and bring Smith in. However, that's only four forwards when the defense needs practically a complete overhaul and we have no real goalies to speak of that go beyond lotto ticket status to me. That being said, I don't think it's as easy to move players that subjectively have decent value on bad contracts. Moving big money is difficult to do as any of the Burns, Hertl, and Karlsson trades seem to attest to.

The only thing a rebuilding team can really do is acquire lottery pieces and wait for them to translate on the ice. This is especially true for a team like the Sharks that aren't going to have any real free agency pull or are a desirable location for players when the team isn't competing. Building from within is going to take a lot of time and patience. Getting Celebrini out of it will give us a significant push in the right direction but we still need blue line talent that we're kind of just putting together what we can and hoping someone makes good with the opportunities provided.

For me though, I'll give Grier plenty of rope just based off the Meier and Karlsson trades. The Meier trade because the return is looking really good right now and the Karlsson deal because they brought Karlsson back from the dead in terms of being able to trade him. Even with them focusing everything they had on him being productive and winning a Norris, they still only got a top-ten protected 1st round pick out of eating 6 mil on retention, eating 21 mil on cap dumps, and forking over a 3rd round pick. But considering that there were only reportedly two teams even talking to us about Karlsson prior to his Norris season and it sounded like we needed to pay them to move him, that's a significant change in value that was orchestrated by Grier and he and Quinn deserve major credit for that, imo.
 

Juxtaposer

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Dec 21, 2009
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IMO there are three “phases” to GMing. There’s “Teardown”, “Build”, and “Fine-tune”.

Teardown constitutes removing old players and big money and bringing in assets. Grier has basically nailed that part with the Burns, Meier, Karlsson, and Hertl trades, I think. Obviously the Burns trade didn’t bring back any value but I think that was a unique scenario where he just wasn’t valuable at all—I think we forgot just how bad he was in 2021-2022, I know I was ready to punt him off the team for free myself and he was one of my favorite players; clearly Grier felt the same. We got significant assets out of the Meier, Karlsson, and Hertl trades. Teardown, complete.

Build is the next phase, which includes drafting and acquiring the players who will form the new core and frankly requires some luck in the form of lottery balls. We’re currently in the middle of this phase and have a little ways to go, but the skeleton of this team is starting to take shape. Celebrini and Smith are two excellent pieces and we’ll be drafting another foundational piece next June as well. The B-tier core pieces like Eklund, Zetterlund, Musty, Mukhamadullin, etc. are starting to come into focus and the C-tier future depth like Thrun, Bystedt, Edstrom, Halttunen, Thompson, and even Cagnoni are waiting to fill in the gaps. We still have a ways to go, particularly on defense and in goal, but we’re well on our way.

Fine-tuning is last, and arguably the most critical part to winning a Stanley Cup. Coincidentally, it was the aspect of GMing that Doug Wilson was horrible at. Once the core is in place, you have to be attuned to their needs on a year to year basis and be able to go out and find the right players to support them in the way they need. This could be as much as trading for a Timo Meier when your Hughes/Hischier/Bratt/Nemec/Hughes core is in place and needs size. It could just be finding just the right depth center to tweak your matchups to be perfect or the right depth defenseman to provide some physicality. It’s a combination of identifying the right player and then being able to go get them at a reasonable cost. Wilson failed at this over and over and over again.

It’s the last step that I’ll judge Grier on the most. He did the first part, which is typically the easiest but also he had a particularly difficult deck to clear and so deserves some credit. He’s done well so far on the second step, though most of that can be attributed to lottery balls. He’ll need to strike the right notes next season to improve the team while also maintaining a focus on the draft and hopefully grabbing a guy who can complete our defensive core. And once the team is up and running, he’ll need to make the right trades to fill in the gaps.

I think the position “tentatively optimistic” is how I feel about Grier so far. He’ll done well up until this point, but I have no idea how he’ll perform when the real GMing challenge appears.
 

mogambomoroo

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I think the big part of why I'm on the ''Grier train'' and have a very optimistic view of MG is that he has addressed every problem Sharks have had. I mean in the way the rebuild was started right away, big contracts were moved as soon as it was good time to move them (getting good pieces back) and he does a lot of low risk moves to try to get depth pieces in the areas we need improvement (Thrun, Addison, Duclair, Eyssimmont, Gawanke etc.) Even though every trade doesn't work out 100%, he is still very active to make the next move without losing anything big.

PS. Just watching the Warsofsky interview now, it's emotional! I hope he can be our head coach for the long haul!
 
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coooldude

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I personally love how Warso is basically Prince Harry grown up into Dwarf King Harry.
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
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Hopefully someone will ask how long his HC contract is, I'm curious about that. I assume 3 years, but I'd love for it to be longer.
 

TheBeard

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I feel like the "familiarity with the players gave an edge" question was asked three different times in three different ways now.
 
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TheBeard

He fixes the cable?
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If there was a better site about who's going number 1, just MG made it very easy for me to dump my entire life's savings on Celebrini.
 
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TheBeard

He fixes the cable?
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Yeah, that felt weird and unsure where that came from outside of maybe a report around the TDL? Otherwise, that was an odd planned remark to get in there.
I thought at first he meant Ferraro, but then he went into details about why Logan is a part of the team going forward. I'm real curious to know what "reports" were out there.
 

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