Speculation: Next Blue to have their number retired?

[TheDizee]

Possible options:

Backes
Steen
Tarasenko
Tkachuk
Jackman
Demitra
Pietrangelo
Chase

I say 7 is next followed by 91 if he stays and continues to perform.

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[Bye Bye Blueston]

Possible options:

Backes
Steen
Tarasenko
Tkachuk
Jackman
Demitra
Pietrangelo

I say 7 is next followed by 91 if he stays and continues to perform.

you should make this a poll.

 

[cmcalum]

No one on that list.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Jackman's #5 is already retired. They'll leave #7 available for a while in case either Matt or Brady(or both) want to come to StL and wear it. Everyone else, nah.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Perron

 

[Celtic Note]

I would recommend looking at the numbers in the rafters and then seeing the historical stats as a starting point for discussion.

Also, you don’t just retire numbers of players who were really good. You retire only the very best.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Petro has a shot, but I wouldn't say it's a guarantee. None of the others, but maybe Tarasenko has a shot depending on his future, but I'm leaning no on him.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Petro is 2nd in D points and like 5th or 6th in games played so he's gotta be the closest to a lock. And the whole captain of the cup winning team is a strong argument too.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Perron deserves it more than anyone

 

[MissouriMook]

Demitra's number should have been retired a long time ago.

 

[bluesfan94]

Possible options:

Backes
Steen
Tarasenko
Tkachuk
Jackman
Demitra
Pietrangelo
Chase

I say 7 is next followed by 91 if he stays and continues to perform.

7 is already honored, so I doubt we get anything beyond that.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Petro is 2nd in D points and like 5th or 6th in games played so he's gotta be the closest to a lock. And the whole captain of the cup winning team is a strong argument too.

would think this ownership group would say nyet to Petro.. had he stayed, I would think more than likely

it's one thing to trade away a player, another to get snubbed and sign someplace else

 

[bleedblue1223]

Demitra's number should have been retired a long time ago.

I don't think it should be retired, but I have a feeling the current group has taken it out of circulation indefinitely.

 

[PocketNines]

Pietrangelo would only not go up out of pettiness. He captained the only Cup winner and scored its GWG. He was the team's best defenseman for a decade and anchored a return from the dregs of missing playoffs to perennial playoff contention. Why even have jerseys go up if you're going to snub one of the best players the franchise has ever had and its only winner. The dude was on the ice for 18 of the Blues' 20 shots in Game 7. Imagine if they hadn't had him, they don't even sniff the Cup. The Cup is the most important thing to happen to the franchise in its history, by a lot. The team is still not a true contender because they lack a player like him. This is the definition of impact. This is a champion who's going into the Hall of Fame. I would throw up if they let someone else wear 27.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Pietrangelo would only not go up out of pettiness. He captained the only Cup winner and scored its GWG. He was the team's best defenseman for a decade and anchored a return from the dregs of missing playoffs to perennial playoff contention. Why even have jerseys go up if you're going to snub one of the best players the franchise has ever had and its only winner. The dude was on the ice for 18 of the Blues' 20 shots in Game 7. Imagine if they hadn't had him, they don't even sniff the Cup. The Cup is the most important thing to happen to the franchise in its history, by a lot. The team is still not a true contender because they lack a player like him. This is the definition of impact. This is a champion who's going into the Hall of Fame. I would throw up if they let someone else wear 27.

I could see it play out like Pronger, where it maybe takes a little longer than we'd prefer, and we some random vet like Sydor or Arnott wear the number.

 

[PocketNines]

I could see it play out like Pronger, where it maybe takes a little longer than we'd prefer, and we some random vet like Sydor or Arnott wear the number.

Last night the Blues (via Tom Calhoun) stated that no player had worn 44 since Pronger left, and I thought that was certainly one way to handle what they chose to do when they did give it out to multiple other players.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Last night the Blues (via Tom Calhoun) stated that no player had worn 44 since Pronger left, and I thought that was certainly one way to handle what they chose to do when they did give it out to multiple other players.

It's why I have a good amount of respect for Faulk sticking with 72.

“No, can’t do that,” Faulk said. “It didn’t even cross my mind. He’s worn that number here for a long time. He was a captain. He captained the team to a Stanley Cup. I’m not gonna go knocking for just a jersey number, the day someone of that importance to the franchise leaves. I don’t think that’s right. So I’ll continue to wear 72 for as long as I’m here.”

 

[Brian39]

Pietrangelo would only not go up out of pettiness. He captained the only Cup winner and scored its GWG. He was the team's best defenseman for a decade and anchored a return from the dregs of missing playoffs to perennial playoff contention. Why even have jerseys go up if you're going to snub one of the best players the franchise has ever had and its only winner. The dude was on the ice for 18 of the Blues' 20 shots in Game 7. Imagine if they hadn't had him, they don't even sniff the Cup. The Cup is the most important thing to happen to the franchise in its history, by a lot. The team is still not a true contender because they lack a player like him. This is the definition of impact. This is a champion who's going into the Hall of Fame. I would throw up if they let someone else wear 27.

Petro needs to do something else major before he is a Hall of Famer. He's never been a finalist for any NHL award and he's never been a 1st team All Star. He doesn't have gaudy offensive stats to make a clear case as an offensive guy (his 499 points put him 199 shy of Pronger, who sits at 26th all time). I think Petro can get there if he wins a Norris or another Cup. But he won't get there unless he does something major in Vegas to build his resume.

Doug Wilson has a Norris win, was a finalist another year and racked up 827 points. Kevin Lowe has 6 Cups (and a King Clancy FWIW). Zubov has 2 Cups, a Norris finalist, and 771 career points. Pronger has a Cup, two other Finals appearances, a Norris and a Hart. Lidstrom has 4 Cups and 7 Norris wins. Housley has 1232 points and a Norris nomination. Blake has a Cup, a Norris win, 2 other Norris nominations and 777 career points. Niedermeyer has 4 Cups, a Conn Smythe, a Norris win, 2 other Norris nominations and 740 points. Chelios has 3 Cups, 3 Norris wins and 948 points. Mark Howe has 3 Norris nominations (all 2nd place finishes), 3 first Team NHL All Star nods, was the WHA Rookie of the Year, won 2 WHA championships, and finished with 742 NHL points to go with 504 WHA points. Leetch has a Cup, Conn Smythe, 2 Norris wins, a Calder and 1028 points. Stevens has 3 Cups, a Conn Smythe, 3 Norris nominations and 908 points. MacInnis has a Cup, a Conn Smythe, a Norris, 5 other Norris nominations and 1274 career points. Murphy has 4 Cups, 2 Norris nominations and 1217 points. Coffey has 4 Cups, 3 Norris wins, 3 other Norris nominations and 1531 points. Bourque has a Cup, 5 Norris wins, 10 other Norris nominations, and 1579 points. Langway has a Cup win, 2 Norris wins and another Norris nomination. Fetisov has 2 Cup wins as a player and another as an assistant coach, but is largely in due to his International resume (2 Olympic golds, 7 World Championship golds, a Canada Cup gold, and 3 World Junior golds).

That is every D man inducted into the Hall in the last 25 years. Every one of them has a better resume than Petro and that will not change if Petro reaches 700 points without winning another Cup or a major award. I think that #27 should eventually be retired here. Wearing the C for the franchise's first Cup is a hell of a culmination to a fantastic decade+ long career. He was the ice time leader for that run, was 3rd in points from our blueline, scored the Cup winning goal and was (at absolute worst) a top 5 contributor to the win (and he sure as hell wasn't 5th). Contribution on 1 playoff run isn't enough for retirement, but his excellent play over a decade puts him top 3 among franchise D in basically everything.

Among Blues D, Petro is 2nd in goals, 1st in assists, 2nd in points (just two shy of Al), 1st in even strength points and goals, 2nd in games played, 4th in +/-, 4th in PP goals, 5th in PP points, 2nd in shots, and 1st in minutes played (by 2000+ minutes). He's top 5 in all of these in the playoffs as well. At worst, his performance as a Blue was 3rd best at the position in the history of the franchise and he was here 100+ games longer than either of the two you could put ahead of him. And then he delivered the best performance of his career en route to being the first player to ever touch the Cup in a Blue Note. I don't think he's a Hall of Famer yet, but 27 should absolutely go into the rafters. It might take a new ownership/leadership group to get over the 2020 contract negotiations, but it needs to get there some day.

If the Blues traded everyone today, then I'd say Petro should be the no-doubt next number to get retired. No one else on the Cup roster has the resume he does with the team. Tarasenko isn't top 3 among forwards in any franchise stat and has zero chance of getting there unless he signs an extension and plays several more seasons here. Perron is 9th and 10th among forwards in most stats. ROR obviously hasn't been here long enough to climb the leaderboard. There are guys that have a chance to keep building their resumes to get into the rafters before Petro, but they are all currently behind him.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I would recommend looking at the numbers in the rafters and then seeing the historical stats as a starting point for discussion.

Also, you don’t just retire numbers of players who were really good. You retire only the very best.

I don’t see how that really helps for comparison considering neither the Plager brothers did anything great from a numbers stand point(I know why their numbers are retired and why they should be) along with Gassoff who only played 4 seasons as a Blue in addition to whatever Wickenheiser’s 14 is considered.

 

[PocketNines]

Yes, I agree that Pietrangelo at age 30 does not have the cumulative numbers yet to automatically go in the Hall of Fame, and I am assuming his career continues and he continues to amass games and points when I describe him that way. I used that label to capture my opinion that I am watching an eventual Hall of Fame player's career unfold and recognizing its caliber in real time. Lack of appreciation around the league and high Norris finishes is not his fault. How can anyone blame Pietrangelo that writers think shiny offensive numbers = best NHL defenseman? For example, regardless of what numbers ever said, there has never been one year since Pietrangelo got into the league as a full timer where PK Subban was a better NHL defenseman than Pietrangelo. The very idea of that is a joke.

With 32 teams and no more Canadiens-Islanders-Oilers-Wings pre cap world dynasties it's going to be much harder for modern players to amass multiple Cups than in the old days, so holding players to the Cup resume standards of the past makes it harder on today's players.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Wasn't Petro a finalist for the Norris the year Josi won it?

 

[Brian39]

Yes, I agree that Pietrangelo at age 30 does not have the cumulative numbers yet to automatically go in the Hall of Fame, and I am assuming his career continues and he continues to amass games and points when I describe him that way. I used that label to capture my opinion that I am watching an eventual Hall of Fame player's career unfold and recognizing its caliber in real time. Lack of appreciation around the league and high Norris finishes is not his fault. How can anyone blame Pietrangelo that writers think shiny offensive numbers = best NHL defenseman? For example, regardless of what numbers ever said, there has never been one year since Pietrangelo got into the league as a full timer where PK Subban was a better NHL defenseman than Pietrangelo. The very idea of that is a joke.

With 32 teams and no more Canadiens-Islanders-Oilers-Wings pre cap world dynasties it's going to be much harder for modern players to amass multiple Cups than in the old days, so holding players to the Cup resume standards of the past makes it harder on today's players.

In 2012/13 Subban definitely contributed more to his team's success than Petro did. But even if you want to throw that out, Petro still finished behind Suter, Beauchemen, Chara, Keith, Weber, Doughty, Kronwall, and Phaneuf (among some other offense-first D men). He was 9th in defensive points share among guys who received Norris votes and only 7 total voters put him in their top 5.

In the years he finished 4th and 5th, he was finishing behind Weber (twice), Chara (twice), Keith, Suter, Hedman and Josi. Even if you ignore the flashy 4th-forward-style D men, he still finished behind 2 or more of his peers that played similar excellent 2-way defense. I can't look at a single one of his close-but-not quite seasons and say that he should have won if the voters were smarter. I'm not sure I'd even have had him at 2nd in any of those years. The lack of Norris wins or finalist appearances is a result of the fact that he has always been considered a step below the absolute best-of-the-best 2 way D. In his peek years, he is almost at that top of that group and then most years he has been outside the top 5 of that group.

For better or worse, Cups and awards are a huge part of the HOF decision. All of Chara, Keith, Doughty, Hedman, and Karlsson have better HOF resumes at the moment. Petro is in the next tier down and it is hard to get into the HOF as part of that next tier down when you don't have a single season to point at where you were arguably the best in the game. Since 2010, we've seen 4 teams win multiple Cups. I really don't think that expansion and the cap is going to do much to change the committee's view that a guy needs multiple Cups or clearly top-end production to get in if he was never at the very top of his position. I think that winning 2 Cups is probably on par with winning 3-4 Cups in the past, but "just" 1 win isn't going to be enough to get you into the HOF if it is the best thing on your resume.

My point is that Petro can tack 200-250 more points onto his stats and won't be a HOF guy unless he has a Norris-caliber season, is a contributor to another Cup win or drags the Knights to a Final as a near-MVP. He's scored 244 points in his last 378 games. He's got 458 games left on his contract. He is going to miss some time between now and his 37th birthday and he's going to slow down some. 200-250 more points is the reasonable range for him to keep amassing points, which is going to put him into the good-but-not-truly top end among D scorers. I don't think that 700ish points and a Cup is enough without a year you can point to and say 'he was the best that year.'

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Huh - even with an 11 goal, 32 assist rookie campaign where he was also +11, AP didn't even get a single vote for Calder. That seems kinda crazy to me. I was wrong, he was 4th the year Josi won.

Has been a three time second team all NHL guy - that's not too bad, but I agree, he's trending to be that borderline Hall of Fame type guy.

Clearly for the Blues he should be in the rafters though

 

[TheDizee]

27 not even close to HOF numbers. he has no hardware other than a cup and olympic gold. way he left STL also means no jersey retirement for him.

if kelly chase stayed on to do radio, i think he could have been next in line to have #39 retired.

 

[bleedblue1223]

27 not even close to HOF numbers. he has no hardware other than a cup and olympic gold. way he left STL also means no jersey retirement for him.

if kelly chase stayed on to do radio, i think he could have been next in line to have #39 retired.

You can't be serious. It's just a meme, right?