News & Notes XLIV: Revenge of the Seth

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HisIceness

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Sep 16, 2010
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I mean I thought the 21-22 team would take a step back and they had the greatest regular season in franchise history. Should clarify here, I didn't think they'd miss but I didn't see a 116 point/54 win season.

I honestly don't know, but I dreamt like a week ago this upcoming team beat the defending Cup champ Panthers in a 7 game series so, imma say our boys do that.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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I don’t think it’s utterly absurd, because you can’t bar major injuries. There are almost always major injuries. Just within the past few years we’ve lost Svech long term, Andersen long term, Pacioretty altogether, Slavin for the playoffs. We’re already missing Fast to a potential career-ender. May as well expect significant disruptions and count ourselves lucky if it doesn’t happen.

There are definitely 2-3 guys on this roster who, if they were to go down for a length of time, would make it a lot harder to see this as a playoff roster.
True, but it's no different for all other teams as well. Injuries to key players would impact their success. I might argue that because of the Canes system, they might be less susceptible to individual injuries than other teams, many who rely on individual performance.

The concern for me is that Defense has been our strength and I'm not sure how this D corps will perform.
 

cptjeff

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I don’t think it’s utterly absurd, because you can’t bar major injuries. There are almost always major injuries. Just within the past few years we’ve lost Svech long term, Andersen long term, Pacioretty altogether, Slavin for the playoffs. We’re already missing Fast to a potential career-ender. May as well expect significant disruptions and count ourselves lucky if it doesn’t happen.

There are definitely 2-3 guys on this roster who, if they were to go down for a length of time, would make it a lot harder to see this as a playoff roster.
Is Wysh's season prediction predicated on there being major injuries to key players? No. It's based on our 111 point team dropping more than 20 points in the standings because of our offseason changes. Walker and Ghost instead of Skjei and Pesce, and Turbo and 1/4 of a season worth of Guentzel leaving. Are those changes on their own going to lose us 10 games?

And your example even makes the opposite point- if we've reached stratospheric levels in the standings the last few seasons *even with several major injuries to major players*, that suggests that our roster is deep and resilient enough to weather a fairly normal level of injuries. You can never rule out a black swan event, but you can't make predictions based on them, either.

We took a step back, sure. But the idea that we're going to go from 111 points to fewer than 90 points based on this offseason is simply not an argument worth taking even remotely seriously. It's overdramatic bullpucky. I know we all love to melt down and overreact to any minor loss, or even a win where we don't look good, but this team was a 1-0 game against the Rangers and a game we effectively didn't contest away from being the absolute best team in the regular season last year. We took a hit, but if you think that that's going to drop us out of the playoffs, you genuinely need to get a grip. Wysh included.
 

Svechhammer

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Jun 8, 2017
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Is Wysh's season prediction predicated on there being major injuries to key players? No. It's based on our 111 point team dropping more than 20 points in the standings because of our offseason changes. Walker and Ghost instead of Skjei and Pesce, and Turbo and 1/4 of a season worth of Guentzel leaving. Are those changes on their own going to lose us 10 games?

And your example even makes the opposite point- if we've reached stratospheric levels in the standings the last few seasons *even with several major injuries to major players*, that suggests that our roster is deep and resilient enough to weather a fairly normal level of injuries. You can never rule out a black swan event, but you can't make predictions based on them, either.

We took a step back, sure. But the idea that we're going to go from 111 points to fewer than 90 points based on this offseason is simply not an argument worth taking even remotely seriously. It's overdramatic bullpucky. I know we all love to melt down and overreact to any minor loss, or even a win where we don't look good, but this team was a 1-0 game against the Rangers and a game we effectively didn't contest away from being the absolute best team in the regular season last year. We took a hit, but if you think that that's going to drop us out of the playoffs, you genuinely need to get a grip. Wysh included.
Not everything is in a vacuum.

If other teams in the division are on their own good enough to grab an additional win over us during the course of the year and we are just a little worse to expect a 5 game drop based on where we were last year, that could end up being 10 more losses and 20 points downswing in the standings
 

cptjeff

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Not everything is in a vacuum.

If other teams in the division are on their own good enough to grab an additional win over us during the course of the year and we are just a little worse to expect a 5 game drop based on where we were last year, that could end up being 10 more losses and 20 points downswing in the standings
But not every team in the division got better. The Isles and Caps got worse. Columbus, very tragically, got a lot worse. Philly got worse and is potentially in a whole heap of trouble. Pittsburgh is just treading water and trying to hold on as Crosby and Malkin age. And really, the Rangers may be good, but they didn't really get any better. They're just status quo. So New Jersey improved a lot. So what?

And then there's the rest of the league, and the NHL's schedule is quite balanced. We don't play the teams in our division 8 times anymore (thank f***ing god, that shit was boring). We don't play the Rags and Devils enough that it really matters any more than the changes to any other team in the Eastern Conference. We don't even play the Rangers and Devils 10 times combined in a season.

The NHL standings function pretty well as a 32 team system rather than an 8 team system these days. Network effects from playing the Rangers and Devils 4 times each instead of 2 or 3 can be pretty safely dismissed. Especially when those network effects also apply to lots of teams that are stagnating or flailing.

The sky is not falling. A season of hockey is a season of chaos, but it's also a very large sample size and the randomness does usually balance out.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
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We had shit goaltending for three months and the coach and captain were calling out that players on the team weren't buying in and playing the game the right way. Perhaps that repeats, but I'm guessing we have a better goaltending situation and we moved out or sorted out the other types of problems I mentioned there. It is probably also nice for all involved to have the coach under contract and not having UFAmageddon hanging out there. In spite of those things, we still finished quite easily as one of the better teams in the league. I think some of those things almost certainly being a better situation this year will help offset some of the talent loss as well.
 

bleedgreen

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It’s an interesting year in our division as I think outside of Cbus everyone is at least as good as they were last year….but easily could be better. I think Philly and Wash are going to have better years, NJ absolutely will. Islanders and Rangers likely stay around the same. We’re the only ones in my book that have a chance to have a notable drop off. I think it’s 50/50 we make the playoffs, but it’s more about the bottom of the division improving than us dropping off a cliff. We may take a step back and those other teams improving are going to be in reach. Could be a real dogfight to make it in down the stretch.

So some anxiety as a Canes fan but probably a fun season to watch.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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True, but it's no different for all other teams as well. Injuries to key players would impact their success. I might argue that because of the Canes system, they might be less susceptible to individual injuries than other teams, many who rely on individual performance.

The concern for me is that Defense has been our strength and I'm not sure how this D corps will perform.

That’s a fair point and I don’t think a catastrophic scenario will play out, but it definitely could play out. And despite the one-for-all system we run, I don’t look at this roster and see much room for error on injuries. Let’s say Aho misses 10 games for whatever reason, minor injury or whatever. Who the heck are our top 6 centers? Let’s say Burns is out for whatever reason, who’s our top RD? Walker or Chatfield? It’s just a lot shallower of a roster than it used to be, which puts a huge spotlight on the health of a handful of top-of-the lineup guys (and also on their performance, as we need those guys to play like stars even more than we used to).

I don’t think it’s crazy to look at what we’re calling a 110 point team which lost at least 10 points of talent off the top, think “what does this look like if things break badly for them?”, and see them in the low 90s. Again that wouldn’t be my prediction but it’s not an absurd prediction.

Is Wysh's season prediction predicated on there being major injuries to key players? No. It's based on our 111 point team dropping more than 20 points in the standings because of our offseason changes. Walker and Ghost instead of Skjei and Pesce, and Turbo and 1/4 of a season worth of Guentzel leaving. Are those changes on their own going to lose us 10 games?

And your example even makes the opposite point- if we've reached stratospheric levels in the standings the last few seasons *even with several major injuries to major players*, that suggests that our roster is deep and resilient enough to weather a fairly normal level of injuries. You can never rule out a black swan event, but you can't make predictions based on them, either.

We took a step back, sure. But the idea that we're going to go from 111 points to fewer than 90 points based on this offseason is simply not an argument worth taking even remotely seriously. It's overdramatic bullpucky. I know we all love to melt down and overreact to any minor loss, or even a win where we don't look good, but this team was a 1-0 game against the Rangers and a game we effectively didn't contest away from being the absolute best team in the regular season last year. We took a hit, but if you think that that's going to drop us out of the playoffs, you genuinely need to get a grip. Wysh included.

For context, Wysh’s article was a list of “bold” predictions for each team. He does that article every year and the idea isn’t to speak to probability, but plausible possibility.

If any fanbase knows better than to think they’re an automatic playoff team because of what happened last year, it’s us. The lack of competition in this division will help, but nothing’s gonna be automatic here. Any team can stumble and miss, look at last year’s Devils who thought they were going to be better than their 112 point season and ended up with 81. Shit happens in this league, we’re not immune.
 

chaz4hockey

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I hope everyone is doing OK with the remnants of Hurricane Helene hitting the Southeast. Naples was hundreds of miles away from the center but yet at one point 25% of the subscribers were without power along with homes/roads by the coast impacted by flooding. My next door neighbor in the Triangle just lost her car plus all of her possessions in a storage locker (they were doing a rehab) from her condo in Naples.

Tying that to hockey....it's natural to be pessimistic given the magnitude of the "seen" fan favorite losses this off season. Negatives are out there but yet we haven't realized the positive offsets yet in the form of Walker, Carrier, Ghost, Roslovic combined with possible/probable improvements by Svetch, Jarvis, KK, Drury.

I was bummed by the loss of Guentzel (it sure was fun watching him play with Jarvis and Aho) but stepping back from the emotion of that loss I realized that the team's core is still solid.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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It’s an interesting year in our division as I think outside of Cbus everyone is at least as good as they were last year….but easily could be better. I think Philly and Wash are going to have better years, NJ absolutely will. Islanders and Rangers likely stay around the same. We’re the only ones in my book that have a chance to have a notable drop off. I think it’s 50/50 we make the playoffs, but it’s more about the bottom of the division improving than us dropping off a cliff. We may take a step back and those other teams improving are going to be in reach. Could be a real dogfight to make it in down the stretch.

So some anxiety as a Canes fan but probably a fun season to watch.
I think Washington got better but Philly? I just don't see it. Their goaltending might be the worst in the league and their improvement last year was carried by the accused of Province of Ontario Suspect #3 until his arrest. They fell off hard when they went to Ersson. Makiniemi could easily be the best goalie they have under contract this year. Isles, Pens, and Jackets all got worse.
 

To Be Determined

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Jun 22, 2006
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...Walker and Ghost instead of Skjei and Pesce...

Seeing talking heads say this drives my pedantic ass crazy. Skjei and pesce are being replaced by orlov and chatfield, not ghostwalker.

They treat it as this huge drop from skjei/pesce, when the reality is the drop to orlov chatfield isn't nearly as bad as they are presenting.

Ghostwalker should be fine as a third pair. Not as good as orlov/chatfield, but perfectly serviceable.

I don't believe the combined deltas between our 2nd and 3rd pairings from last season to this season add up to the drop we'd see replacing skjei/pesce with ghostwalker.

It is a subtle difference, but those are the little things people use to drive narratives, and it vexes me. I am quite vexed.
 

Derailed75

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Jan 5, 2021
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Seeing talking heads say this drives my pedantic ass crazy. Skjei and pesce are being replaced by orlov and chatfield, not ghostwalker.

They treat it as this huge drop from skjei/pesce, when the reality is the drop to orlov chatfield isn't nearly as bad as they are presenting.

Ghostwalker should be fine as a third pair. Not as good as orlov/chatfield, but perfectly serviceable.

I don't believe the combined deltas between our 2nd and 3rd pairings from last season to this season add up to the drop we'd see replacing skjei/pesce with ghostwalker.

It is a subtle difference, but those are the little things people use to drive narratives, and it vexes me. I am quite vexed.


Don't vex TBD, you wouldn't like him when he's vexxed!
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
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I think Washington got better but Philly? I just don't see it. Their goaltending might be the worst in the league and their improvement last year was carried by the accused of Province of Ontario Suspect #3 until his arrest. They fell off hard when they went to Ersson. Makiniemi could easily be the best goalie they have under contract this year. Isles, Pens, and Jackets all got worse.
I'm confused by the Philly love too from some. I think it would take Michkov being one of the best players in the league (which isn't impossible, but still seems unlikely). Their goaltending is suspect. Their D is suspect. They are okay at forward. Torts might drag them to a respectable record again (unless his shelf life is already up, and it could be), and they can probably stick around the bubble again, but I don't see them as some major threat of improvement. They were lucky to stick around as long as they did last season with the rest of the division and the bottom of the playoff race in general being so bad.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
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The sky is not falling. A season of hockey is a season of chaos, but it's also a very large sample size and the randomness does usually balance out.
Since when did you take my place as the board optimist.....
So some anxiety as a Canes fan but probably a fun season to watch.
I believe this will be a very fun team to watch. They are faster for sure and feels like they got bigger too.
It’s just a lot shallower of a roster than it used to be, which puts a huge spotlight on the health of a handful of top-of-the lineup guys (and also on their performance, as we need those guys to play like stars even more than we used to).
Here's my two cents.....our backend will be better offensively. Ghost will score notably more than SKjei. Walker will, at worst, double Pesces offensive output. Orlov with the mere fact that he'll see more ice time will likely increase his scoring. Will they be as good defensively? Nope. But the key to our defensive system is less about our blue line and more about the defensive responsiblities of the forwards. If they stick to Rod's game, defensively, we'll be alright.

Goaltending feels like it's more settled. Jarvis and Svech almost certainly take a step forward. Roslovic has a very real chance of replacing Tuevo's scoring and Necas is playing for a developing reputation as a serious scoring threat. This team is going to put up points....lots of them. I expect more 5-2, 6-4, even 7-5 games out of this crew.

I'm also less concerned about the Rangers. Panarin, Trocheck, Zibanejad, and Kreider are all a year older. There's a very real possibility of a bit of regression. Fox remains their only real offensive threat from the back end. And Peter Laviolette is notorious for beginning to lose the room in the 2nd and 3rd years of his tenure.

As far as the rest of the division, New Jersey will be good but that group has a pretty significant injury history. The team I'm most concerned about is Washington. Ovie is going to want to break Gretsky's record this season and his team is going to do everything to help. They got better in the off season, not by a lot, but enough to notice.

In the end, if we can stay healthy, I believe we will compete to be one of the top 2 teams in the division.
 

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