New Winnipeg Ice Arena

[OSA]

I’ve been looking online for some status updates but can’t seem to find anything. Anyone have any idea what going on there?

 

[Al Camino]

I’ve been looking online for some status updates but can’t seem to find anything. Anyone have any idea what going on there?

It's been crickets. Depending on who you talk to there are issues with the RINK Academy who was supposed to be partnering with them and/or issues with the municipality where the arena was supposed to be built. Which isn't in a great location. There is only one way in and out and not much for amenities there.

I find it interesting that if you read the box scores it shows as sell out but it's rather obvious there are a lot of empty seats and freebies. I have no idea how they can be sustainable running a WHL franchise on less than 1,600 fans per game for another few years plus run 2 MJHL teams.

Fact is Winnipeg is a Jets town. Not a hockey town. The two MJHL teams, and Bison play to almost no one which is too bad, it's good hockey and very affordable.

Unless the Moose suddenly relocate, and I don't see any city close to Winnipeg lining up to take them, I don't think the Ice are long for Winnipeg.

 

[BE Friend]

Based on the thread name I thought wow, WPG found some money I guess. Odd to hear as I was told the trigger , one of many i suspect, was the reluctance of Cranbrook to pony up the dough for the new rinks that were mandated league wide to follow the NHL. This arena manager told me it was a knock down system, engineered in north america?? but came over via container from.............. CHINA. The whole thing. Right down to the new "plastic" glass. All made in China.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's been crickets. Depending on who you talk to there are issues with the RINK Academy who was supposed to be partnering with them and/or issues with the municipality where the arena was supposed to be built. Which isn't in a great location. There is only one way in and out and not much for amenities there.

I find it interesting that if you read the box scores it shows as sell out but it's rather obvious there are a lot of empty seats and freebies. I have no idea how they can be sustainable running a WHL franchise on less than 1,600 fans per game for another few years plus run 2 MJHL teams.

Fact is Winnipeg is a Jets town. Not a hockey town. The two MJHL teams, and Bison play to almost no one which is too bad, it's good hockey and very affordable.

Unless the Moose suddenly relocate, and I don't see any city close to Winnipeg lining up to take them, I don't think the Ice are long for Winnipeg.

ICE fan checking in here. There was a news article last month that said the ICE are in talks with the University of Manitoba to extend the lease there through 2022-23 and possibly beyond. So they are looking at minimum one more season, more likely two years minimum at the Wayne Fleming Arena given that no work has begun on a new arena. Realistically it's probably at least 3 more seasons at the Wayne.

By all accounts the plan for the arena at The Rink Training Centre has fallen through.

The ICE are kind of an interesting case, they have a disappointingly low profile and small fanbase considering the things they've done right:

-first and foremost, a winning team that plays very entertaining hockey
-lots of non-hockey enticements with excellent game presentation, special events, presence in the community
-very, very reasonable prices especially compared to the Jets and even the Moose
-they have reached out to the amateur hockey community by bringing in lots of minor hockey teams to games
-collaborating with many community organizations in support of various charitable causes
-close professional connections to the TNSE organization
-good social media presence and games on the radio

I would expect all this to translate to 100% sold out games every night considering the small size of the venue. But to be honest I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a completely sold out ICE game. Every game I've been to has had loads of empty seats. A very typical scenario is like last night vs. Saskatoon, announced at 1,600 or whatever capacity is. But realistically no more than 3/4 full. That would be great for the Bisons or MJHL, but it's disappointing for the WHL.

What can you conclude besides the market simply being saturated? Who else carries NHL, AHL and major junior hockey? Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and Chicago... anywhere else? And even in those places the teams are spread out such that the AHL and junior teams are in far outer suburbia. Winnipeg is small by comparison, there is only one community to cater to.

I think it's safe to say the Jets will remain in Winnipeg for a long time. However, something will eventually have to give between the ICE and the Moose. If the Moose leave town then that frees thing up for the ICE. But if the Moose stay for the long haul, I suspect the ICE might get squeezed out. But then, who knows? The guys who own the ICE are rich dudes and they might be OK with a team that is break-even at best if it provides other benefits to them. It's all very interesting from a fan perspective.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I wonder, as an ex Winnipeger, if a smaller venue with a great atmosphere could be shared by the Moose and the Ice. Something around 5500 seats. Because the big arena is too big for the Moose, the U of M arena is too small for the Ice.

It would have to be centrally located...like at the forks...go see one game in the aft then Jets at night.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I wonder, as an ex Winnipeger, if a smaller venue with a great atmosphere could be shared by the Moose and the Ice. Something around 5500 seats. Because the big arena is too big for the Moose, the U of M arena is too small for the Ice.

It would have to be centrally located...like at the forks...go see one game in the aft then Jets at night.

In theory it would be good for the Moose to have their own home, but in practice Canada Life Centre has everything that the Moose need and I have a hard time seeing TNSE laying out tens of millions of dollars to build a new rink. I think part of what makes the Moose work in Winnipeg is the fact that they kind of ride along on the Jets' infrastructure (CLC, Iceplex, TNSE management). So even though they probably don't bring in a ton of revenue compared to when they were the only game in town, they probably make a small profit because their costs are pretty low. That goes out the window if you're spending a fortune paying down a mortgage on a new arena, though.

As for the ICE on the other hand, yeah, they need a new arena eventually and I don't see how they can make it work any other way. I wouldn't be surprised if their owners must be burning up the phones trying to work out a deal with another organization that could also use an arena to be partners with them. I have no idea who that might be, but it could be the University of Manitoba, the Red River Ex, the First Nations involved in the Kapyong Barracks redevelopment, maybe even some small towns just outside of Winnipeg.

I don't know what it is like behind the scenes for the ICE, but as a fan I have noticed they are building up a following. There are more people at the games and I think there's just more awareness of the team in general.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

In theory it would be good for the Moose to have their own home, but in practice Canada Life Centre has everything that the Moose need and I have a hard time seeing TNSE laying out tens of millions of dollars to build a new rink. I think part of what makes the Moose work in Winnipeg is the fact that they kind of ride along on the Jets' infrastructure (CLC, Iceplex, TNSE management). So even though they probably don't bring in a ton of revenue compared to when they were the only game in town, they probably make a small profit because their costs are pretty low. That goes out the window if you're spending a fortune paying down a mortgage on a new arena, though.

As for the ICE on the other hand, yeah, they need a new arena eventually and I don't see how they can make it work any other way. I wouldn't be surprised if their owners must be burning up the phones trying to work out a deal with another organization that could also use an arena to be partners with them. I have no idea who that might be, but it could be the University of Manitoba, the Red River Ex, the First Nations involved in the Kapyong Barracks redevelopment, maybe even some small towns just outside of Winnipeg.

I don't know what it is like behind the scenes for the ICE, but as a fan I have noticed they are building up a following. There are more people at the games and I think there's just more awareness of the team in general.

Thanks for the rundown that is very informative.

It's just that my junior hockey appreciation came when I left, but really piqued with the Vancouver Giants and Victoria Royals. Seen games in Kelowna, Kamloops, Portland and Everett. Loved all of those experiences.

With the Ice being so good so quickly, I would want the fans to fully appreciate what a special team they have.

Also, a 5500 seat rink opens Winnipeg up for hosting international tournaments and Memorial Cups in the future.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Thanks for the rundown that is very informative.

It's just that my junior hockey appreciation came when I left, but really piqued with the Vancouver Giants and Victoria Royals. Seen games in Kelowna, Kamloops, Portland and Everett. Loved all of those experiences.

With the Ice being so good so quickly, I would want the fans to fully appreciate what a special team they have.

Also, a 5500 seat rink opens Winnipeg up for hosting international tournaments and Memorial Cups in the future.

I think a secondary arena would be a great thing for Winnipeg, not just for junior hockey but for larger events like the ones you mentioned. We really do not have a second decent arena in Winnipeg. There is probably no other NHL city with a dropoff like ours. You go right from the NHL rink to the number two venue being Wayne Fleming Arena (where the ICE play) which is a small arena with wooden bench seating that is realistically junior A calibre. There is nothing in Winnipeg that even comes close to the Q Centre in your neck of the woods. The only place nearby like that is the Selkirk Rec Centre which is 30 minutes away in Selkirk. Basically in Winnipeg it's Canada Life Centre > (massive dropoff) > Wayne Fleming Arena > local community rinks.

As for fan appreciation, it is building up but the timing of the move to Winnipeg really couldn't have been worse in terms of building a fanbase. When the ICE moved here the Jets were just a year removed from their 2018 playoff run when they were really dominating the sports landscape. As with any long playoff run, the fanbase was totally engaged and a lot of new Jets fans were created. I personally was not paying much attention to the ICE until I went to a couple of games and got into it. Then of course covid happened and put an end to the playoffs before they started. The 2020-21 season was out of sight, out of mind in the Regina bubble. The team was picking up momentum through the first half of this season but it's getting derailed by omicron. Having three years of playoffs in a row wiped out by covid would be a devastating blow in terms of revenue and developing the fanbase.

The "hardcore" hockey people I know... meaning the people who are passionate about following the game or are somehow involved in the system as amateur players, coaches or executives are well aware of the ICE and their marquee names. It is more the general public that is still not that aware and the lack of playoffs has really deprived the team of the ability to make a huge splash in the community.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Its settled then.....5500 seats for the Ice....Moose can share...if they want...

We are going to make this small and tight, with relatively steep seats so you feel on top the action. We are going old school because the tickets will be cheap. I want loud, drunk, highly obnoxious fans.

Where to put it.....hmmm....I like the Forks...other locations I like are around Polo Park if there is still space there or inside the old Hudson's Bay building. Gut the interior keep the outer facade...that would be cool.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

For poops and giggles, I just learned the Hudsons Bay building is 215, 000 feet bigger than the MTS centre...I was stunned....that is big.

But man, if you could fit a hockey rink in there with how beautiful that building is....my god it would be special.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

For reference, The new U OF S arena, is/could be about 3500 if they filled in the end zone with seats...

it was badly needed in Stoon. Houses huskies obviously, but also the MAAA contact and women league team.

There was 0 intermediate size arenas, Latrace was 1000, warman is also very nice at about 2K and could house a junior A team.

Calgary for example has like 3-4 arena's in the 2-6K range... hockey canada/ u of c etc.. , stampede corral when it was standing.

Calgary is a good example of what Winnipeg should be. Make it a dual/triple rink complex for minor hockey and get it going. Should be an easy sell IMO to someone with $$$ city/province.

 

[wetcoast]

For reference, The new U OF S arena, is/could be about 3500 if they filled in the end zone with seats...

it was badly needed in Stoon. Houses huskies obviously, but also the MAAA contact and women league team.

There was 0 intermediate size arenas, Latrace was 1000, warman is also very nice at about 2K and could house a junior A team.

Calgary for example has like 3-4 arena's in the 2-6K range... hockey canada/ u of c etc.. , stampede corral when it was standing.

Calgary is a good example of what Winnipeg should be. Make it a dual/triple rink complex for minor hockey and get it going. Should be an easy sell IMO to someone with $$$ city/province.

Calgary is almost double the size of Winnipeg and that's a huge difference.

I came here to say that Vancouver which is bigger than both has 2 large arenas and the LEC in Langley where the Giants play and the Abbotsford facility as well as the former Chilliwack franchise that played in Chilliwack which holds 3500 people.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Calgary is almost double the size of Winnipeg and that's a huge difference.

I came here to say that Vancouver which is bigger than both has 2 large arenas and the LEC in Langley where the Giants play and the Abbotsford facility as well as the former Chilliwack franchise that played in Chilliwack which holds 3500 people.

The post you quoted referenced Saskatoon which I think would be a reasonable model to follow in Winnipeg. Basically one large NHL sized rink (Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg, SaskTel Centre in Saskatoon) and one secondary barn in the 3,000-5,000 seat range (Merlis Belsher Place in Saskatoon, future ICE arena in Winnipeg).

However, it's been three years since the move to Winnipeg was announced and still no deal on a new building. It's getting to the point where you have to wonder if it's ever going to happen.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think the solution at this point is to build a new arena for the University of Manitoba that seats 5,000-10,000 for both hockey and basketball. I personally don't see why not minus the fact it'd be very complicated considering they'd need to work around some of the things they have. One solution would be to have both the Bisons and Ice play at Canada Life Centre. U of M Basketball plays elsewhere for that season.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I think the solution at this point is to build a new arena for the University of Manitoba that seats 5,000-10,000 for both hockey and basketball. I personally don't see why not minus the fact it'd be very complicated considering they'd need to work around some of the things they have. One solution would be to have both the Bisons and Ice play at Canada Life Centre. U of M Basketball plays elsewhere for that season.

U of M Basketball plays at Investors Group Athletic Centre, so they're not part of the equation. Bison Hockey could play literally anywhere on a temporary basis, they never have more than a couple hundred fans in the stands for their regular season games anyway.

A new rink at the U of M is not a terrible idea but there is no reason why the Bisons and ICE couldn't continue to play at Wayne Fleming while it is constructed. I think the cheapest workable solution is to simply expand Wayne Fleming and put stands on the side that currently doesn't have any.

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

U of M Basketball plays at Investors Group Athletic Centre, so they're not part of the equation. Bison Hockey could play literally anywhere on a temporary basis, they never have more than a couple hundred fans in the stands for their regular season games anyway.

A new rink at the U of M is not a terrible idea but there is no reason why the Bisons and ICE couldn't continue to play at Wayne Fleming while it is constructed. I think the cheapest workable solution is to simply expand Wayne Fleming and put stands on the side that currently doesn't have any.

There is literally no space to expand seating on the east side of that arena. If you go beyond the meagre media area or zamboni holding area...you are right at the edge of the building. The facility is that small.

 

[McChucky]

The Ice were originally partners with Rink Academy. The arena was a joint project. The Ice are no longer partners with them from what I understand. Probably opening the door for True North, I would keep an eye on that instead. Canada Life Center could be the new home....just a guess.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

1) There is ZERO chance the UofM is going to expand Wayne Fleming to house the ICE.
2) The UofM is not easily accessible for most of Winnipeg. It's on a peninsula in the Red River, parking is not convenient, and there is nothing nearby. The ICE basically just draw from the nearby South end of Winnipeg.
3) Winnipeg does not need a second arena. It's a small, isolated city.
4) The Moose do not need to be independently profitable because they are there to serve as the developmental piece for the Jets. They share the Jets practice facilities, so they're not going anywhere.
5) Whether the ICE need to be independently profitable is an interesting question. Their original vision including the RINK) was to control all hockey development in Winnipeg (Spring Hockey, Academy, MJHL) with the ICE being the showcase. You can sell tickets if the roster is loaded with local players. Both their MJHL franchises are pay-to-play ... the second franchise is a bad joke. I am not sure if that is still their long-term vision, but that was the original motivation.

 

[Hollywood3]

Western Hockey League

Headquartered in Calgary, Albert, the Western Hockey League (WHL) consists of 22 Member Clubs located throughout Western Canada and the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

whl.ca

The Wayne Fleming Arena is undergoing renos until the end of October. The Bison teams are playing home games at The Rink in that period. The ICE are playing two home exhibition games at The Rink then starting with 13 away games, followed by 10 home games.

 

[jetsmooseice]

There is literally no space to expand seating on the east side of that arena. If you go beyond the meagre media area or zamboni holding area...you are right at the edge of the building. The facility is that small.

Yeah, a seating expansion would mean literally expanding the building to the east. There is room for that. It kind of looks like the building was partly designed with that in mind.

If the ICE/U of M did that, it would probably push seating up to at least the 3,500 mark, maybe even a few more depending on how it was done. But more importantly it would provide space for true premium seating, team facilities, more media space, etc.

I wonder if something like that could work over the long haul? The U of M did collaborate with the Bombers on a facility (IG Field) so there is ample precedent. And I think there is also a pretty clear track record of people being OK with the U of M as a site for a venue. People are used to going to football and soccer games there.

Western Hockey League

Headquartered in Calgary, Albert, the Western Hockey League (WHL) consists of 22 Member Clubs located throughout Western Canada and the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

whl.ca

The Wayne Fleming Arena is undergoing renos until the end of October. The Bison teams are playing home games at The Rink in that period. The ICE are playing two home exhibition games at The Rink then starting with 13 away games, followed by 10 home games.

Mike Sawatzky of the Free Press reported that Wayne Fleming is getting a new ice plant, so not really a "renovation" per se. Apparently it's taking a long time and the process was delayed by the WHL playoffs. Although as I noted in the ICE thread in the Jets forum, I kind of hope they at least do something to improve the fan experience a bit. There is a lot of low hanging fruit in terms of easy fixes.

 

[TSM]

The LATEST rumour I heard is that Wpg ICE is looking at all options and one option is to partner w/ an organization that is already building a rink and looking for a main tenant. One organization is the Home - Treaty One They are building a new rink as part of their land development project off of Kenaston & Taylor - the old Kapyong Barracks site (see attached). Would Home - Treaty One want to be part owners in the venture? Or just lease? That's all up for discussion.

Naawi-Oodena Master Plan - Treaty One

The Master Planning of the former Kapyong Barracks is a landmark project not only for the Treaty One First Nations, but also for Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Canada, for generations to come. The redevelopment of the lands has the potential to: • help shape Winnipeg’s future urban growth;• generate...

treaty1.ca

First attachment is from the Treaty1.ca website & PDF document they released about the rink they are planning to build. The second attachment shows a diagram of where the proposed rink would be located (i.e. blue area).

NOTE: Treaty One has not started building just yet, but have cleared the land. They could be starting as soon as this fall or spring of 2023. Should be getting an update later this month.

Happy speculating!

 

[jetsmooseice]

The LATEST rumour I heard is that Wpg ICE is looking at all options and one option is to partner w/ an organization that is already building a rink and looking for a main tenant. One organization is the Home - Treaty One They are building a new rink as part of their land development project off of Kenaston & Taylor - the old Kapyong Barracks site (see attached). Would Home - Treaty One want to be part owners in the venture? Or just lease? That's all up for discussion.

This tidbit has been floating around for a while. I guess the big question is whether the FN landowners want to take on the cost and risk of building a large major junior facility? By contrast, if they build a 4-plex type community rink setup (like Bell MTS Iceplex), it's cheaper and there is way less risk. You know it will always be booked with events, tournaments and what not. By contrast, a larger single-rink arena for the WHL hinges on the team... without the ICE you are basically stuck with renting it for MJHL or high school games with maybe 200 people rattling around a 4,000 seat bowl.

A rink for the ICE will probably cost around $75 million, a basic 4 plex would be maybe a third of that. So the 50 Below guys will really have to do quite a job sweet talking the landowners to convince them to jump into a big arena project like that.

 

[hockeykid87]

Heard a wild, wild rumour the other day that the ICE will be relocating after this season. Ownership is losing money hand over fist and there's no new arena deal in sight. I was even told as far as it will be confirmed and announced within 10 days of the Memorial Cup ending. Wouldn't that be something if they won it all then left town a week later?

 

[TSM]

I’ve been looking online for some status updates but can’t seem to find anything. Anyone have any idea what going on there?

Here's the latest I heard: I sat in on one of those Web Forums regarding the status of the TreatyOne arena that's being built. Phase 1 (residential) won't start until at least fall of 2023, most likely 2024. The rink is in LATER phases. Thus, the rink that is rumoured for the Wpg ICE to lease on a longer term basis won't be ready until 2024-2025 at the earliest. This lines up w/ recent articles that the ICE are currently rumoured to be extending their lease at UofM for a couple more years longer.

Also, just to correct what some people have posted earlier. The MB Moose & Wpg Jets are owned by the True North; where as the Wpg Ice, Wpg Freeze, and Wpg Blues are owned by 50 Below Sports. Thus, the Moose (AHL) and Wpg ICE (WHL) are actually fighting for the same entertainment $$ in Winnipeg in terms of affordable live hockey. One could make an argument that they are competitors (in a way). Thus, do not expect much collaboration between ICE & Moose and/or Jets at all.

Furthermore, plans have stalled regarding building another WHL-sized rink at the RINK Training Centre at 57 South Landing off McGillivray .

FYI: As far as I know, there are NO plans to move any of the aforementioned teams: AHL Moose, Wpg Jets, Wpg ICE. And every time I've posed this question to various members of the Wpg Media, they usually confirm that they have heard nothing of the sort as well. So Wpg hockey fans can be assured the teams aren't going anywhere.

Suffice it to say, it looks like the ICE will be playing a few more seasons at UoM until a rink is built. If TreatyOne or another developer builds an WHL rink that the ICE can be the primary tenant for, that would probably be optimal. Also, don't be surprised if there's more there in terms of a partnership agreement or even possibly take on a new (part) owner as part of their ownership group, that will pony up the finances for the new rink. But at this stage, its all speculation.

That's all I've heard.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Heard a wild, wild rumour the other day that the ICE will be relocating after this season. Ownership is losing money hand over fist and there's no new arena deal in sight. I was even told as far as it will be confirmed and announced within 10 days of the Memorial Cup ending. Wouldn't that be something if they won it all then left town a week later?

I sure as hell hope not, I just paid for my f'n season ticket renewal!!!!!!!

Where would they even go? It's the middle of February, the season starts in less than 8 months. Not much time to do all the legwork of getting a lease, securing facilities and billets, selling tickets and sponsorships, etc.