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Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

Ducky10

Ducky10

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surixon

surixon

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Jedub said:
Rielly has an undisclosed injury.
Leafs' Rielly admits he's been playing through undisclosed injury
I'd put money on Morrissey having some kind of injury issue. His play is much more tentative this year, but then he also has to play more carefully with Poolman as opposed to Trouba.
Pionk has been great, no complaints from me (but can he please do something about that name?...)
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I think some are forgettong how good Morrissey looked in camp and the first handful of games this year. He looked poised to take the leap to stud number 1 dmen. JoMo hasn't looked the same since getting that knock in the pre game skate that forced him out of two games. I wouldn't be surprised if that knock re-aggrevated his injured shoulder from last year and that is the cause for a decline in play. He hasn't been physical and has resorted to trying to use his stick to separate players as his default move. That is a stark contrast to how he played in camp and started the year. Wouldn't surprise me if he underwent shoulder surgery when the year is over. Probably would have already if the Jets defense wasn't so thin.

I also think he is playing with a lower body injury suffered from that shot that forced him to leave a game. His agility and pivots haven't been as good as they normally are.

Pionk has been good no doubt about that.

As for Poolman he looks busy out there but that is often because he is running around out of position.
 
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jetswin

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Pionk is decent offensively, still meh defensively. A very good 3-4 on a contending team, not a 1-2
 

hn777

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IMO, Pionk has absolutely been playing like a #2 D-man this season. He is a fierce competitor and doesn't back down defensively. He also has the best underlying numbers of the regular D-men. The problem is Morrissey has been playing like a #3 since his injury.
 
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KingBogo

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hn777 said:
IMO, Pionk has absolutely been playing like a #2 D-man this season. He is a fierce competitor and doesn't back down defensively. He also has the best underlying numbers of the regular D-men. The problem is Morrissey has been playing like a #3 since his injury.
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Agreed. Pionk is playing as a very good #2/3 at this point with likely a little more room to move up.
 
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scelaton

scelaton

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jetswin said:
Pionk is decent offensively, still meh defensively. A very good 3-4 on a contending team, not a 1-2
Click to expand...
But it doesn't matter as long as the good>>>the bad. That's why Buff was an all star D despite being defensively 'meh". Same with Erik Karlsson, who may have been better offensively but is worse than Pionk his own zone. Didn't stop him from winning an award or two.

Here is how defensively meh Pionk has been this year, compared to a random $8M #1-2 D on the Rangers:

Pionk: (36 points, 14th in NHL among D) 50.9 CF%, +3.2 CF% Rel, 4th on his team in +/-

$8M-dollar man: (23 points, 49th in NHL D scoring) 44 CF%, -3.5 Rel% CF, 23rd on his team in +/-
 
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MrBoJangelz71

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Pionk is not a top pairing dman?
Pionk is not good defensively?

Guess when he started the season as the worst dman in the league, according to some, you realize some here do not have a hot clue how to assess talent on the backend.

Pionk has consistently been one of our best players this entire season, period. Give him a permanent skilled partner to grow with, like Morrissey, and he will easily handle top pairing minutes.
 
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Edgar Halliwax

Edgar Halliwax

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Never heard of the guy until the trade. There were a lot of naysayers at the time - that I remember. At any rate, I had low expectations, but he's been very, very good for us this year.
 
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Mud Turtle

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scelaton said:
But it doesn't matter as long as the good>>>the bad. That's why Buff was an all star D despite being defensively 'meh". Same with Erik Karlsson, who may have been better offensively but is worse than Pionk his own zone. Didn't stop him from winning an award or two.

Here is how defensively meh Pionk has been this year, compared to a random $8M #1-2 D on the Rangers:

Pionk: (36 points, 14th in NHL among D) 50.9 CF%, +3.2 CF% Rel, 4th on his team in +/-

$8M-dollar man: (23 points, 49th in NHL D scoring) 44 CF%, -3.5 Rel% CF, 23rd on his team in +/-
Click to expand...

That’s all that needs to be said.
I always thought that Trouba was overrated. Funny how hockey does that occasionally but eventually the hockey world catches on.
 
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NotCommitted

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Mud Turtle said:
That’s all that needs to be said.
I always thought that Trouba was overrated. Funny how hockey does that occasionally but eventually the hockey world catches on.
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But Pionk was supposedly utter crap, based on his play in that Rangers system last season... and Morrissey is not looking nearly as good as he was with Trouba, though reason could be anything from injury to D-partners. I'm just saying it's not that simple always and Morrissey/Trouba was a very good pairing and seemingly both guys benefitted from each other. For what it's worth, I always thought Morrissey was the better D-man in that pairing and Trouba was perhaps somewhat overrated, but in hindsight I think I might have underestimated the load Trouba was carrying positionally and with physical play. I think besides Morrissey's possible injury, that's another reason why he's been struggling a bit (relatively speaking).

Pionk however has been an absolute stud, even more so taking into account how bad he was supposed to suck :D
 
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DRW204

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anyone playing the point on our PP will rack up points via secondary assists. but the PP is less effective than years passed with him on it. his 5v5 production (and rates) is not that great, no where near some of the seasons that Trouba had here.

IMO: still a pleasant surprise but would not dub him as a viable Trouba replacement just yet. Morrissey-Trouba was one of the most effective top pairs in the league and i think Morrissey's play has dropped off considerably this year with Trouba's departure. Pionk is a solid 2nd pair dman who is being overplayed in a top pair role. I don't love his defensive game or 5v5 scoring, but he'll net high totals at the end of year since he's the highest ATOI dman on the team and a mainstay on PP1.

Edit: He already has as much PP TOI this year as Trouba did all of last season with the Jets
 
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TS Quint

Stop writing “I mean” in your posts.
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Something something poke my eyes out and listen to spread sheets.
 
scelaton

scelaton

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DannyGallivan said:
Just waiting for him to get injured by a big forechecker. It's gonna happen, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Almost all D miss games due to injury but there is no correlation to size. This year, our most injured D include Kuli, Beaulieu and, of course, dear departed Buff. See a correlation?
 
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buggs

buggs

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DRW204 said:
anyone playing the point on our PP will rack up points via secondary assists. but the PP is less effective than years passed with him on it. his 5v5 production (and rates) is not that great, no where near some of the seasons that Trouba had here.

IMO: still a pleasant surprise but would not dub him as a viable Trouba replacement just yet. Morrissey-Trouba was one of the most effective top pairs in the league and i think Morrissey's play has dropped off considerably this year with Trouba's departure. Pionk is a solid 2nd pair dman who is being overplayed in a top pair role. I don't love his defensive game or 5v5 scoring, but he'll net high totals at the end of year since he's the highest ATOI dman on the team and a mainstay on PP1.

Edit: He already has as much PP TOI this year as Trouba did all of last season with the Jets
Click to expand...

To be fair to Trouba, I think he's largely suffering the same fate as Pionk did last year in certain respects. He's (Trouba) a capable top pairing D which I'm not convinced Pionk is just yet (he's young yet and may get there). So under similar usage on largely similar teams they both struggled. So Trouba's lack of production this year is likely related to going to a lesser team that has defensive struggles. He was never going to be a savior but then neither was Pionk.

Partly because of circumstance I think the Jets are using Pionk in the appropriate pairing for his current abilities and he's doing well with the reduced responsibilities relative to his time in New York. That's making his numbers look pretty good, in addition to substantial power play time. But I consider him to be playing on the second pairing more often than not, not the top pair. If he truly is playing in the top pair for this team, he's doing remarkably well considering how for much of the year many of our forwards have been rather allergic to playing team defense (not of late perhaps).

I also agree that Morrissey is missing Trouba quite badly. I think there's more to it (injury effects) but he had a really solid partner that balanced him very well in Trouba. We're still a better team with Trouba here.

The trade looks like it will end up working out quite well for us, particularly given the circumstances around Trouba's departure and his handcuffing of the team. And in a salary cap era it might well be for the best as it allowed us greater flexibility in signing our young forward studs.
 
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