Nathan MacKinnon, on par with the best in business?

[CN8]

Yea exactly, which was Makar.

Yes this was my point
At least it’s consistent

 

[The Macho King]

Yea exactly, which was Makar.

And by a mile too. MacKinnon was not scary in the Finals. Makar was.

 

[Coffey]

Mackinnon is a lesser player than Claude Provost and will never catch up to him(9 cups), got it​

I expect nothing from Vegas Fans but your logic still disappoints me

He’s a weird Knights/Avs hybrid. Truly a disgusting creature.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

How many Cups does MacKinnon have?
How many Cups does McDavid have?

Until he catches up, he will be lesser than. Cups matter bro.

Messier has 6 cups.
Gretzky has 4 cups.

This argument just doesn't work. By this kind of logic, Mark Messier is greater than Wayne Gretzky because he has more cups.

Even if McDavid doesn't win a cup in Edmonton, I'd say the chances of him winning a cup on another team later in his career is extremely high. The greats normally find a way. Lots of people thought Ovechkin was a loser too before he eventually got his cup.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Messier has 6 cups.
Gretzky has 4 cups.

This argument just doesn't work. By this kind of logic, Mark Messier is greater than Wayne Gretzky because he has more cups.

Even if McDavid doesn't win a cup in Edmonton, I'd say the chances of him winning a cup on another team later in his career is extremely high. The greats normally find a way. Lots of people thought Ovechkin was a loser too before he eventually got his cup.

You’re wrong. Patrick Maroon is infinitely better than McDavid. 3 cups vs 0, boom, science.

 

[The Macho King]

McDavid is the first forward to win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort in 50 years. Are we really trying to argue that his playoff performance is anything short of stellar?

Takes a team. I don't care if McDavid never wins a Cup - his greatness is solidified.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

McDavid is the first forward to win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort in 50 years. Are we really trying to argue that his playoff performance is anything short of stellar?

Takes a team. I don't care if McDavid never wins a Cup - his greatness is solidified.

Dude is trolling for sure , I prefer drive by trolls than the ones ripping paragraphs for 10 pages though , hurts my brain

 

[PaulD]

McDavid is the first forward to win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort in 50 years. Are we really trying to argue that his playoff performance is anything short of stellar?

Takes a team. I don't care if McDavid never wins a Cup - his greatness is solidified.

Still. Based on this season I take Mack over McDavid.
Over all..... a coin toss.

 

[The Macho King]

Still. Based on this season I take Mack over McDavid.
Over all..... a coin toss.

Man i wish I had the object permanence of a goldfish.

Also MacKinnon is an empty net merchant this year.

 

[benfranklin]

Messier has 6 cups.
Gretzky has 4 cups.

This argument just doesn't work. By this kind of logic, Mark Messier is greater than Wayne Gretzky because he has more cups.

Even if McDavid doesn't win a cup in Edmonton, I'd say the chances of him winning a cup on another team later in his career is extremely high. The greats normally find a way. Lots of people thought Ovechkin was a loser too before he eventually got his cup.

The Cup club starts at 1. 1/2/5/9 are all the same when comparing to 0.

Im obviously with you that Gretzky > Messier. But lets pretend Gretzky never won a Cup, had his 2800 whatever points. It would be a never-ending talking point that he never won it all despite a million points, Harts, and Art Ross's.

Its just the way it is and that is where McDavid finds himself. He is young enough that we all assume he has time and will get it sooner than later, but every year that is going to creep up to be more and more of a topic.

MacKinnon has his. He has his Hart and Lindsay. He can sit back and relax now and he is immortal in Colorado. McDavid needs to win one In Edm and if he doersnt, Oilers fans will be a little sour on him if he wins elsewhere.

Same with Sid. Lets pretend he never won in Pittsburgh, left and won elsewhere. He would be booed. Now, Pens fans will cheer for whatever team he goes to because he is immortal in Pittsburgh. Connor doesnt have that yet. He could easily pull a Tavares next season and it will get ugly fast.

 

[PaulD]

Man i wish I had the object permanence of a goldfish.

Also MacKinnon is an empty net merchant this year.

As were Gretz and OV career .
All the best scorers rack them up.

The Cup club starts at 1. 1/2/5/9 are all the same when comparing to 0.

Im obviously with you that Gretzky > Messier. But lets pretend Gretzky never won a Cup, had his 2800 whatever points. It would be a never-ending talking point that he never won it all despite a million points, Harts, and Art Ross's.

Its just the way it is and that is where McDavid finds himself. He is young enough that we all assume he has time and will get it sooner than later, but every year that is going to creep up to be more and more of a topic.

MacKinnon has his. He has his Hart and Lindsay. He can sit back and relax now and he is immortal in Colorado. McDavid needs to win one In Edm and if he doersnt, Oilers fans will be a little sour on him if he wins elsewhere.

Same with Sid. Lets pretend he never won in Pittsburgh, left and won elsewhere. He would be booed. Now, Pens fans will cheer for whatever team he goes to because he is immortal in Pittsburgh. Connor doesnt have that yet. He could easily pull a Tavares next season and it will get ugly fast.

Bourque is still loved by Bs fans and Management.
But I get ya. The Cup is the cherry on top when the great ones get theirs. OV finally got one after what 14 seasons?
And as good as we all know he is.....he was immediately plaved in even higher regard after winning the Cup. So will McDavid.

 

[benfranklin]

As were Gretz and OV career .
All the best scorers rack them up.


Bourque is still loved by Bs fans and Management.
But I get ya. The Cup is the cherry on top when the great ones get theirs. OV finally got one after what 14 seasons?
And as good as we all know he is.....he was immediately plaved in even higher regard after winning the Cup. So will McDavid.

Yeah if McDavid leaves the Oilers 10 years from now to win the Cup, all good, go Connor.

If he goes on runs the next two seasons, falls short, and leaves EDM with nothing to show (via trading him) Tavares style, theyre going to livid.

 

[Randyne]

OV finally got one after what 14 seasons?

on 13th season.

As were Gretz and OV career. All the best scorers rack them up.

Why Ovi? He is not top empty net merchant.
Top 25 by ENP per game (among top 100 by total ENP)

#	Player	ENP/GP
1​	Mikko Rantanen	.086​
2​	Jake Guentzel	.085​
3​	Sebastian Aho	.081​
4​	Kyle Connor	.079​
5​	Mark Scheifele	.068​
6​	Connor McDavid	.068​
7​	Matthew Tkachuk	.066​
8​	Nathan MacKinnon	.064​
9​	Nikita Kucherov	.063​
10​	Leon Draisaitl	.062​
11​	Sidney Crosby	.062​
12​	Brad Marchand	.062​
13​	Blake Wheeler	.061​
14​	Artemi Panarin	.060​
15​	Wayne Gretzky	.057​
16​	Bryan Rust	.056​
17​	Zach Hyman	.052​
18​	Alexander Ovechkin	.051​
19​	Jonathan Marchessault	.050​
20​	Teuvo Teravainen	.049​
21​	David Pastrnak	.049​
22​	Mario Lemieux	.048​
23​	Gabriel Landeskog	.047​
24​	Vincent Trocheck	.047​
25​	Jaden Schwartz	.046​

 

[PaulD]

on 13th season.

Why Ovi? He is not top empty net merchant.
Top 25 by ENP per game (among top 100 by total ENP)

#	Player	ENP/GP
1​	Mikko Rantanen	.086​
2​	Jake Guentzel	.085​
3​	Sebastian Aho	.081​
4​	Kyle Connor	.079​
5​	Mark Scheifele	.068​
6​	Connor McDavid	.068​
7​	Matthew Tkachuk	.066​
8​	Nathan MacKinnon	.064​
9​	Nikita Kucherov	.063​
10​	Leon Draisaitl	.062​
11​	Sidney Crosby	.062​
12​	Brad Marchand	.062​
13​	Blake Wheeler	.061​
14​	Artemi Panarin	.060​
15​	Wayne Gretzky	.057​
16​	Bryan Rust	.056​
17​	Zach Hyman	.052​
18​	Alexander Ovechkin	.051​
19​	Jonathan Marchessault	.050​
20​	Teuvo Teravainen	.049​
21​	David Pastrnak	.049​
22​	Mario Lemieux	.048​
23​	Gabriel Landeskog	.047​
24​	Vincent Trocheck	.047​
25​	Jaden Schwartz	.046​

OV and Gretz have the most ENG's.
(And I'm not knocking them for it).

 

[Randyne]

OV and Gretz have the most ENG's

MacK has only 1 ENG, but he is on the top by ENP (this season). So that talk was about points.

 

[Jixer19]

I never understood the knock on players getting empty net points, the coach trusts the players to play in those situations for a reason, if they score (to usually put the game away, there is some situations where that isn't always true), even better

 

[PaulD]

I never understood the knock on players getting empty net points, the coach trusts the players to play in those situations for a reason, if they score (to usually put the game away, there is some situations where that isn't always true), even better

yea its not like a Domi or Armia are racking up empty netters.
Look to the all time leaders......they lead with a goalie in ......and with a goalie out.

 

[tabness]

have watched bits of the past few Avs games including this one tonight

MacKinnon is absolutely flying and dominating but nothing's going in, tryhard MacKinnon is my favorite MacKinnon lol

 

[McPoyle]

McDavid just made MacKinnon look silly on the Oilers goal in P1 tonight.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Yep. And the fact is McDavid was pointless in both game 7s last year, one against Vancouver and one against Florida. The rest of the Edm team was good enough to win against Vancouver but not good enough to win against Florida.

Also, the fact is that MacKinnon isn't some scrub, to no one's surprise he won the Hart last year (over a healthy McDavid I might add) in no small part because he has more dimensions to his game. The fact is McD is a better player than someone like RNH or Warren Foegele, but MacK is arguably at the same level or potentially slightly better (hence this thread).

You can keep going if you want. There is no fact that McD is the ideal person that everyone would pick in a 7 game series. What you have is a feeling, same as @PaulD. The way I feel, if McD were really that good, he would've scored a couple of points in game 7 and Edmonton would've had a cup parade. At least so far, he hasn't able to get it done.

For what it's worth, I really do hope he does sometime. But until then, it's completely reasonable to prefer a different player who provides about the same level of offense, is likely a better dressing room leader, and has also factually gotten it done (unlike McD at least so far) all the while having a more complete game

This is the most delusional comment I’ve seen on here for a long time. You’re wrong in so many ways it’s not worth breaking down. When McDavid goes down as a universal top 5 player of all time and MacK is sitting outside the top 50 I hope you keep this same energy crying to the 90% public, because you sir, are the minority

 

[Video Nasty]

10 game goal drought. 3 assists in his past 8 games and 5 scoreless games during that time frame.

Longest goal drought last season was 8 where he still managed 10 assists. Fewest points he had in an 8 game stretch was the 7 he had in the opening 8 games of last season.

With Kucherov missing a game tonight, it’s already looking like a different tale that’s unfolding this season.

Luckily for MacKinnon, McDavid is the only contender of note who has picked up 10+ points on him since he started slumping.

 

[TheNumber4]

 

[GirardIsStupid]

McDavid just made MacKinnon look silly on the Oilers goal in P1 tonight.

Crazy. Want to start a parade?

 

[PainForShane]

This is the most delusional comment I’ve seen on here for a long time. You’re wrong in so many ways it’s not worth breaking down. When McDavid goes down as a universal top 5 player of all time and MacK is sitting outside the top 50 I hope you keep this same energy crying to the 90% public, because you sir, are the minority

So, if you bothered to read the 6-day-old comment you replied to (from 7 pages ago), you would have seen almost everything I said in that post is pretty much inarguable except the * point

1) McDavid was pointless in both game 7s last year
2) Edm won against Vancouver, but not against Florida
3) MacKinnon isn't some scrub
4) MacKinnon won the Hart in 2024
*5) MacKinnon won the Hart over a healthy McDavid
6) McDavid is better than RNH / Foegele
7) MacKinnon is arguably the same level (or potentially better) than McDavid
8) Not every single person in the world would choose McDavid as their first choice to win a 7 game series
9) Part of the reason for that is that, in game 7 of the SCF this year, McDavid didn't score a single point
10) So far, McDavid hasn't won a cup
11) I honestly hope McDavid does win a cup at some point

I addressed point 5 was addressed in a previous comment, I believe that playing 76 games out of 82 means you're essentially healthy. That's my honest belief. You can disagree if you want.

Meanwhile, my opinion re: MacKinnon does appear to be in the minority. Who the **** cares.

Re: the other point you made, we're also not talking about where their careers will end up, so I'm not sure where McDavid's overall career finishes has anything to do with this particular discussion.

***

In the meantime, after reading your "delusional" comment I hope you keep spending the same energy ignoring the posts you respond to while crying to the 90% public that not every single person on a fairly large message board agrees with you. Sir.

 

[Sasso09]

McDavid is the first forward to win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort in 50 years. Are we really trying to argue that his playoff performance is anything short of stellar?

Takes a team. I don't care if McDavid never wins a Cup - his greatness is solidified.

I agree with al of this but McDavid absolutely has a team, a great team. 2nd best player in hockey over the last 4 years, a PPG 1D, a 50 goal scoring winger, a Selke nomiinated PPG 2C...

They have no excuses not to win