Nashville Predators talk - The Offseason

[triggrman]

They'll play young guys when they outplay the roster player.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Sometimes I feel like we're in Schrodinger's retool. Can't play young guys because we're a playoff team but then if you complain about the lack of the success in the playoffs its ok because we're in a retool. Can't have it both ways in my book.

The part that kills me is I think (and advanced stats tend to agree) that the guys overcooking in the AHL give us a better chance to win anyway! It's not like playing Tomasino, Egor, Evangalista, etc would mean we're tanking, those guys are far better play drivers than Sherwood/Smith/McC/Jankowski.

 

[Predsanddead24]

They'll play young guys when they outplay the roster player.

How are they supposed to outplay the roster player if they never get a chance? Like I said earlier Gurianov, Beauvillier, Jankowski, and Sherwood all had mediocre to terrible stretches of hockey this season but stayed in the lineup. The two games Afanasyev got this season were unimpressive but he was hardly the worst guy on the ice in those games (at a minimum he outplayed Jankowski who ended up staying in the lineup).

 

[triggrman]

Jankowski outplayed Parsinen as a center.

Sherwood is whatever, I tend to agree there some

Smith and Mc are 4th line grinders.

 

[triggrman]

How are they supposed to outplay the roster player if they never get a chance? Like I said earlier Gurianov, Beauvillier, Jankowski, and Sherwood all had mediocre to terrible stretches of hockey this season but stayed in the lineup. The two games Afanasyev got this season were unimpressive but he was hardly the worst guy on the ice in those games (at a minimum he outplayed Jankowski who ended up staying in the lineup).

Gurianov was on his last leg and getting his last chance. Jankowski was size up the middle and Beauvillier was better.

Afanasyev didn't impress the coach enough for him to get playing time.

I dont' always agree with Brunnette but this one I don't lose sleep over.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Jankowski outplayed Parsinen as a center.

Sherwood is whatever, I tend to agree there some

Smith and Mc are 4th line grinders.

Jankowski predominantly played on the wing this season.

Gurianov was on his last leg and getting his last chance. Jankowski was size up the middle and Beauvillier was better.

Afanasyev didn't impress the coach enough for him to get playing time.

I dont' always agree with Brunnette but this one I don't lose sleep over.

That's my thing we give a bunch of chances to guys like Gurianov but then don't give additional chances to guys like Afanasyev. Hard disagree Beauvillier was better especially early on. He literally lost us a game with a horrible pass that would have gotten a young player sent down immediately.

 

[triggrman]

Jankowski predominantly played on the wing this season.


That's my thing we give a bunch of chances to guys like Gurianov but then don't give additional chances to guys like Afanasyev. Hard disagree Beauvillier was better especially early on. He literally lost us a game with a horrible pass that would have gotten a young player sent down immediately.

Meh, most of the time when on the Novak line Jankowski owned the defensive responsibilities, IMHO.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

How are they supposed to outplay the roster player if they never get a chance? Like I said earlier Gurianov, Beauvillier, Jankowski, and Sherwood all had mediocre to terrible stretches of hockey this season but stayed in the lineup. The two games Afanasyev got this season were unimpressive but he was hardly the worst guy on the ice in those games (at a minimum he outplayed Jankowski who ended up staying in the lineup).

I think this is the key. I'm not at all convinced any of those more veteran guys outplayed the younger players. They were however certainly granted more leeway in terms of living with any mistakes they made or any inconsistencies in their games.

I don't think it's really about Afanaseyev yet in that sense, since his chance was still forthcoming and more hopeful, but I've certainly been more impressed by Parssinen and Tomasino than any of the 4 guys mentioned above. I'm 100% convinced if you afforded Parssinen and Tomasino the opportunity to make mistakes and stay in regular lineup roles suited to their skillsets, they would easily outperform any of Gurianov/Beauvillier/Jankowski/Sherwood. So would Tolvanen have. Now, would Afanaseyev be in a similar boat, I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no, I have no idea yet... I was hoping to see if that could be the case with the upcoming season. It's certainly not impossible he would have failed to perform up to the same standards, who knows. I guess we'll find out if he sinks or swims with the Sharks now instead.

 

[weeze]

Sure hope Afanaseyev doesn't turn into another Tolvanen. But kinda hope he does for his sake. Kid deseerved more than a 2 game stint. Heck you could pick a 2 game stint for the entire team where every player stunk it up! He didn't get a true shot with the big club and that is a shame. Should have had at least a 15-20 game stint or more. Same for a few others to see how they fare. If we are in a rebuild/tool then what does it matter? Play your young players, give'm a shot. If they don't mesh then move on but at least you let them fail on their own. 2 games is NOT a shot.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

I think the weirdest part of all of it, looking back at last season as a whole, is how many forwards we kept bringing in rather than calling guys up. Foudy, Gurianov, Beauvillier, Zucker, JAD, etc

 

[Armourboy]

I think the weirdest part of all of it, looking back at last season as a whole, is how many forwards we kept bringing in rather than calling guys up. Foudy, Gurianov, Beauvillier, Zucker, JAD, etc

And I'd say Zucker was the only one worth it.

 

[Gh24]

Afanasiev was probably going to have his opportunity this upcoming season. Judging by that one tweet it seems like Afanasiev's camp thought he deserved more than just an opportunity. Good AHL production should warrant you a good showing, but not a definite roster spot.

I also don't know if it would have been any better for his development to play some 4th line or 3rd line defensive minutes with preds than what he did with Ads.

 

[triggrman]

I still say, Brunnette saw something he didn't like in practice and like it or not, if a coach don't trust you in practice, he's not putting you in the game, especially with the playoffs on the line.


You don't buy a car if you hate the test drive.

 

[herzausstein]

I think the weirdest part of all of it, looking back at last season as a whole, is how many forwards we kept bringing in rather than calling guys up. Foudy, Gurianov, Beauvillier, Zucker, JAD, etc

JAD played the role of pressbox filler. So im perfectly ok with that one.

Gurianov had a great AHL season so it made sense to give him a shot but it just kept going and going even when he wasnt really doing anything on the ice. Foudy is the reverse. Picked him up and he didnt do anything at the NHL level but we kept trying before giving up. He eventually had a nice AHL season.

Meanwhile we only gave Fagemo a 4 game look. He went back to LAs farm team and tore up the AHL with 43G in 50 games.

I think zucker did ok. Both him and Beauvillier were cheap buys so why not give it a shot. Zucker got some points. Beauvillier was mostly forgettable and likely couldve been replaced with any prospect. Both had team worst goals for %

At some point, we will have to figure out that prospects coming out of the AHL arent finished products. Theyre going to continue to grow at the NHL level. If you expect them to be a finished product, you are going to lose several to waivers and some of them are gonna bite you in the butt

I still say, Brunnette saw something he didn't like in practice and like it or not, if a coach don't trust you in practice, he's not putting you in the game, especially with the playoffs on the line.


You don't buy a car if you hate the test drive.

From what ive seen of Brunette, i get the feeling that he likes to default to experienced players whether or not they are playing any better than the young ones. Something comfortable about nostalgia

 

[triggrman]

From what ive seen of Brunette, i get the feeling that he likes to default to experienced players whether or not they are playing any better than the young ones. Something comfortable about nostalgia

yet he played Stastney over Barrie and Fabbro, and Evangelista and Novak over a lot of players.

 

[herzausstein]

yet he played Stastney over Barrie and Fabbro, and Evangelista and Novak over a lot of players.

Fabbro sat several nights and when he did play got the fewest TOI of all the dmen on the team except for Schenn on some nights.

Stastney and Del Gaizo only got shots after several injuries to the LHD (McD and Lauzon) because Barrie on the left side was just terrible.

Novak - 2nd lowest TOI of all our forwards during the playoffs.

Evangelista/Novak - at some point you cant run 1 scoring line and 9 grinders.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

yet he played Stastney over Barrie and Fabbro, and Evangelista and Novak over a lot of players.

They all got less ice time than they deserved whenever the going got tough too. Evangelista and Novak might not have been too impressive in the playoffs, but are still basically our top offensive players after the 1st line... yet Evangelista got punted back in 4/6 games, and Novak all 6. Stastney barely played at all. Barrie seemed to get a lot of icetime when he did get in the lineup for some reason. Anyway, dunno how much is chicken and how much is egg, Novak in particular looked lost, but if you're skipping shifts and getting 8 minutes a game or whatever, I can see how it's easier to look lost... and stay lost.

I dunno, there are only so many bodies on hand, but I wouldn't say that I was happy with the utilization of any of Stastney, Fabbro, Evangelista, or Novak either, even though they didn't get sent to the minors or sent packing like some other young players did. Relative to how good they are stacked up against the rest of our lineup anyhow.

From what ive seen of Brunette, i get the feeling that he likes to default to experienced players whether or not they are playing any better than the young ones. Something comfortable about nostalgia

It's sort of standard for NHL coaches anywhere, though. Partly because the experienced players do know better. But also just out of ingrained conservatism/over-cautiousness.

 

[herzausstein]

They all got less ice time than they deserved whenever the going got tough too. Evangelista and Novak might not have been too impressive in the playoffs, but are still basically our top offensive players after the 1st line... yet Evangelista got punted back in 4/6 games, and Novak all 6. Stastney barely played at all. Barrie seemed to get a lot of icetime when he did get in the lineup for some reason. Anyway, dunno how much is chicken and how much is egg, Novak in particular looked lost, but if you're skipping shifts and getting 8 minutes a game or whatever, I can see how it's easier to look lost... and stay lost.

I dunno, there are only so many bodies on hand, but I wouldn't say that I was happy with the utilization of any of Stastney, Fabbro, Evangelista, or Novak either, even though they didn't get sent to the minors or sent packing like some other young players did. Relative to how good they are stacked up against the rest of our lineup anyhow.


It's sort of standard for NHL coaches anywhere, though. Partly because the experienced players do know better. But also just out of ingrained conservatism/over-cautiousness.

There is a level of comfort relying on the old guard. Theyve been there done that and know how to handle the situations better. At some point though if this team is going to improve we are either going to have to give the younger/better prospects the latitude to make errors and learn on the job (like what NJD have done with Mercer/Holtz), trade said prospects for vets (like what we did with fiala but hope for better results), or go free agency hunting (like what we did with duchene, nyquist, ror, etc).

The younger players will make more mistakes. Just gotta accept that. Heck even the great vets like Josi make mistakes.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

We don't have all the data. Maybe he would have sucked next year. We'll never know. Our frustration isn't specifically with the "Abby Normal" Egor move, it's with the reality that our management is much more confident in judging forward prospects aren't a good fit than they are developing forwards that thrive. This decision would be a non-event if we had a track record of selecting, developing, and playing successful young forwards (see Dallas). But because we don't, when they jettison a player that seems to check many boxes (height/weight/stats), they are not choosing a better developed player over him, they are simply cutting bait while continuing the astonishing streak of not drafting and developing good NHL forwards.

 

[Gh24]

Egor doesn't have the resume to demand NHL icetime with KHL threats. Maybe Barry just wasn't taking any of that shit

 

[Scoresberg]

Might ultimately be the FA market who convinces Trotz that the Preds are in fact headed for a re-tool..

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805267815580025285

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Egor doesn't have the resume to demand NHL icetime with KHL threats. Maybe Barry just wasn't taking any of that shit

Anyway, if that's what he even did (doubtful, would be highly unusual), then it sure seemed to work for him - getting traded to San Jose is a great result for the player.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Might ultimately be the FA market who convinces Trotz that the Preds are in fact headed for a re-tool..

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805267815580025285

So how does this work now? I have lost track... they eliminated the Free Agency interview period a few years back... but players now are or are not allowed to talk to teams before July 1st? (Officially I mean - even if of course there is double top secret unofficial tampering going on regardless).

In a way, it might save us from what is likely to be an awful contract, if true. Not sure how New Jersey would have the $$$ to pay Pesce, given the contracts they already have on D and some new ones forthcoming for their young studs, but maybe they do.

 

[Scoresberg]

So how does this work now? I have lost track... they eliminated the Free Agency interview period a few years back... but players now are or are not allowed to talk to teams before July 1st? (Officially I mean - even if of course there is double top secret unofficial tampering going on regardless).

In a way, it might save us from what is likely to be an awful contract, if true. Not sure how New Jersey would have the $$$ to pay Pesce, given the contracts they already have on D and some new ones forthcoming for their young studs, but maybe they do.

Yeah, I don't think Pesce makes much sense for NJ, tbh.

They already have Hamilton, Nemec and Marino on their right side with Casey knocking on the door as well. I think they'd shop Marino in case they signed Pesce.

But after Hughes and Nemec are RFAs in 2025 and 2026, respectively, they'd have a boatload of money tied to their back-end.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

But after Hughes and Nemec are RFAs in 2025 and 2026, respectively, they'd have a boatload of money tied to their back-end.

You might even say... an anchor load of money tied to their back-end...