Honestly, I don't think I know yet. I'll have to see them all working together to decide who I think belongs where. I feel very confident with any of our top 4, though.
Confirmed with Link: (NAS/MTL) Shea Weber for P.K. Subban
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Honestly, I don't think I know yet. I'll have to see them all working together to decide who I think belongs where. I feel very confident with any of our top 4, though.
This may be either totally stupid or totally possible, but if the chemistry is right, is it feasible that one of Josi or Subban is actually spending time on the second pair? Based on last year's average TOI our top 4 had:
Subban: 26:22
Josi: 25:29
Ekholm: 20:15
Ellis: 20:54 (this number was closer to 22:00 after the Jones trade)
If either Ekholm or Ellis prove to have really good chemistry with Subban or Josi do we think we see a point in time where the top 4 are split up to push 48 to 50 minutes a game and we see the third pairing out there sparingly?
Subban: 26:22
Josi: 25:29
Ekholm: 20:15
Ellis: 20:54 (this number was closer to 22:00 after the Jones trade)
If either Ekholm or Ellis prove to have really good chemistry with Subban or Josi do we think we see a point in time where the top 4 are split up to push 48 to 50 minutes a game and we see the third pairing out there sparingly?
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I think they'll try Josi-Subban first, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Josi-Ellis and Ekholm-Subban at some points. Especially in the playoffs where then you could basically push 30 minutes a night to Josi and Subban. 20 minutes of that with their normal partners and 10 minutes either together on the PP or with the third-pairing guys.
We'll see, though. At this point I think anything is fair game.
NSH615
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- Feb 13, 2013
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They were out of gas by that 7th game because they only got 1 day off the entire playoffs due to Anaheim having to start 2 days after everyone else.
Day 1: Fly to Anaheim
Day 2: Game
Day 3: Practice
Day 4: Game
Day 5: Fly to Nashville
Day 6: Game
Day 7: Practice
Day 8: Game
Day 9: Fly to Anaheim
Day 10: Game
Day 11: Fly to Nashville
Day 12: Game
Day 13: Fly to Anaheim
Day 14: Game
Day 15: Travel to San Jose
Day 16: Game
Day 17: Practice
Day 18: Game
Day 19: Fly to Nashville
Day 20: Game
Day 21: Practice
Day 22: Game
Day 23: Fly to San Jose
Day 24: Game
Day 25: Fly to Nashville
Day 26: Game
Day 27: First and only day off
Day 28: Fly to San Jose
Day 29: Game
Please let me know how you would feel after a month like that.
I agree, but I also feel like it's tempting to do so with Bitetto/Granberg/Weber being the alternative options. As far as building up a better bottom 3, you wouldn't think this would be a huge problem but after trading Jones we've had a glaring hole there (again, would still do the trade a thousand times over, just saying). Perfect case scenario, Bitetto has a breakout year and Weber flourishes here. Worst case scenario, we feel like we're left with no choice other than to push the top 4 to the limit.
He was pale and looked completely out of it when they were interviewing him before the game. I think Shea was bordering on a complete physical breakdown and some of the others weren't too far behind him.
I hope the conditioning staff can work miracles and make it so that is not a factor going forward. As long as the playoffs are structured like they are, criss-crossing the country with limited breaks is a possibility.
I hope the conditioning staff can work miracles and make it so that is not a factor going forward. As long as the playoffs are structured like they are, criss-crossing the country with limited breaks is a possibility.
That schedule isn't entirely accurate, at least on the return flights to Nashville they likely left immediately following the game and we're in their own bed and then off the next day. And "practice" in the playoffs is not really much more than just staying loose, no hard skating, no drilling anyone, no battling for roster spots in scrimmage.
Still a grinding schedule. The NHL did the Preds no favors, but they could have finished Anaheim sooner too. Either way, even if they had some extra days on there somewhere, that group wasn't physically prepared for two more series after that. Hopefully they are more well conditioned and more mentally prepared for that grind this year. WCoH and a condensed schedule doesn't help, but everyone will face that.
Still a grinding schedule. The NHL did the Preds no favors, but they could have finished Anaheim sooner too. Either way, even if they had some extra days on there somewhere, that group wasn't physically prepared for two more series after that. Hopefully they are more well conditioned and more mentally prepared for that grind this year. WCoH and a condensed schedule doesn't help, but everyone will face that.
NSH615
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Even so, they didn't get home until somewhere between 4 and 6 AM the next morning.
incineratorz
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- Jan 9, 2012
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lol jesus christ...that schedule is ****ing insane, especially for playoff hockey ( tough stuff)
NHL needs to do a better scheduling job
WartracePred
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Lavy is known for pushing his guys to be in great shape coming into camp and entering the regular season. There is a lot of chatter about the amount of skating his players endure during camp. Not sure he could do much more to get the boys in shape for the post season. The were behind the 8 ball with a late start in ANA, then the series went 7 games while San Jose finished early. Add to that the west coast travel and you couldn't help but notice the Preds were worn down by game 7 in San Jose.
sparkle twin
Registered User
Unfortunately that schedule is right. They never flew to/from a city right after a game. All of Nashville, Anaheim, San Jose flew the day after a game.
That's unusual, maybe the staff felt that getting a full night's rest was more beneficial to recovery and figured they wouldn't really be practicing so they could use that time for travel instead.
Price is Wright
Registered User
The way Subban has been received and the way he has arrived reminds me of Gretzky in Los Angeles. This is not a player comparison. Just I remember the buzz in California and it's a lot like the buzz in Tennessee. I've had more than a few friends who don't watch hockey that live in Tennessee and Kentucky ask me about P.K. and if he's a big star in Canada. It's quite interesting.
Byrddog
Lifer
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If you have "advanced stats" saying Weber is an average defender, what you have is an argument for advanced stats being wrong, or at best painting a very incomplete picture.
edit: Personally, I think if you want an article to read about the players involved in this trade, you should check out Kevin Shattenkirk's articles about elite defenders in the Players' Tribune from last season. http://www.theplayerstribune.com/elite-defensemen-101-kevin-shattenkirk-nhl/ Weber is the second player mentioned in part one.
"On defense, what can you say? He’s an absolute beast — extremely strong and plays with a pretty big edge to his game. His body positioning in the corners is outstanding and he just suffocates you down there. Weber is one of a handful of guys in the league who command a certain amount of respect from referees and can get away with little veteran moves — stuff like short little cross-checks in front of the net, using the forearm shiver in the corners. You’re not getting out of a corner with him.
If you’re trying to carry the puck over the blue line against the Predators, he’ll make you pay. There’s a reason teams dump-and-chase against Nashville."
Subban is the first player mentioned in part 2: http://www.theplayerstribune.com/elite-defensemen-101-part-2/
"P.K. gets a lot of heat for being a dislikable guy on the ice but it’s all by design. It fits his game to piss people off. He gets a lot of guys to take runs at him and distract them from their game, which is a smart thing to do. One thing you might not notice about P.K. is that he has unbelievable edgework to his skating. That helps him turn on a dime from forward to backward without losing any momentum. This is what I mean by edgework." [embedded video of Subban in skating drills]
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nomorekids
The original, baby
I've given my take on this over and over again, but I'll give it one more time:
As a pure defensive player, Weber IS average. He has strengths (physicality, play on the board) and he has weaknesses (puckhandling, breakout, zone clearance)
What advanced stats show is that from a purely defensive standpoint, his weaknesses outweigh his strengths, and I think just watching you can see that. What this argument is not and should not try to prove is that Weber is some kind of third pairing pylon. He is a great player based on his NON defensive strengths -- ie, his shot or even the threat of his shot, his overall "aura." I think those are important ingredients for a franchise defenseman. You can make that case while also admitting that he can at times create a negative impact on the ice.
Pred303
Registered User
I'm a firm believer in hockey intangibles. analytics are a tool, not the end all/be all of player evaluation that some kids (this guy is 21 years old) tend to forget. not saying we lost this trade, I actually think there is an excellent chance this could make us a better team, but we will definitely be a 'different' team than we were before the trade. better? I certainly hope so.
analytics won't show some of the things we have depended on weber bringing to the ice. the physical aspect, the intimidation aspect, the locker room leader aspect, the net front presence element all are parts of what can't be 'quantitatively' measured. leadership and locker room dynamics create teams that overachieve or at least play to their potential.
I believe this trade will be a huge success if Josi is as productive as he was with weber. how this trade 'effects' Josi's production remains my biggest concern.
analytics won't show some of the things we have depended on weber bringing to the ice. the physical aspect, the intimidation aspect, the locker room leader aspect, the net front presence element all are parts of what can't be 'quantitatively' measured. leadership and locker room dynamics create teams that overachieve or at least play to their potential.
I believe this trade will be a huge success if Josi is as productive as he was with weber. how this trade 'effects' Josi's production remains my biggest concern.
Byrddog
Lifer
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In every aspect analytical, watching his play, his leadership style the entire bucket is going to0 be under a magnifying glass now. ANd he has not played one minute in Montreal and he is already average. If he falters he will surpass David Desharnais(sp) as there whipping boy. I doubt he ever felt that kind of pressure here.
Paranoid Android
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Hold on, there's way more to defensive coverage then what you've listed. His positioning is superb, his gap control was by far tops on the team, his ability to break up a cycle was way beyond the fleet footed Josi.
Yes, he made the safe play too many times by going high off the glass, and that's a no no with corsi. He also blocks shots, also a no no with corsi. He also had a bad habit of clearing straight up the boards, where his winger wasn't covering the man on the point, which led to bad clears.
His passing was average, his handling the puck was at best average but his defensive zone coverage and ability to play actual defense was not lacking. He carried Josi, way more than Josi carried him.
nomorekids
The original, baby
I agree with all of that, but the general belief in the "new" NHL, where attacking is so heavily emphasized, is that the only thing that matters is a clean breakout. You can be doing all of those things right, but if you're still allowing too many shot attempts against, if you're not positively impacting your team's possession of the puck, then you're spinning your wheels.
Here's what I don't get.
These advance stat guys will tell you Karlsson was way better defensively because he always had the puck and shot suppression, etc.
What they don't want to tell you is that Karlsson was on the ice for more goals at even strength or better than any other defenseman in the league and it wasn't close.
They'll tell you Josi and Weber weren't good defenders because they gave up so many shots but yet Josi was top 5 at even strength scoring. How is that possible if he never had the puck?
Advance stats count all even strength shots and shot attempts equal. And we all know a lot of players would try to throw the puck at the goalie as soon as they cross the blueline against Weber. Very few tried on the fly to skate around him.
Advance stats people tell you there's no effect on types of scoring chances, or that zone starts don't affect the stats. Or the one I love the most is that quality of competition doesn't matter nearly as much as quality of teammates. The problem is both are measured with the same flawed advanced stats.
These advance stat guys will tell you Karlsson was way better defensively because he always had the puck and shot suppression, etc.
What they don't want to tell you is that Karlsson was on the ice for more goals at even strength or better than any other defenseman in the league and it wasn't close.
They'll tell you Josi and Weber weren't good defenders because they gave up so many shots but yet Josi was top 5 at even strength scoring. How is that possible if he never had the puck?
Advance stats count all even strength shots and shot attempts equal. And we all know a lot of players would try to throw the puck at the goalie as soon as they cross the blueline against Weber. Very few tried on the fly to skate around him.
Advance stats people tell you there's no effect on types of scoring chances, or that zone starts don't affect the stats. Or the one I love the most is that quality of competition doesn't matter nearly as much as quality of teammates. The problem is both are measured with the same flawed advanced stats.
Funny thing, to start the year we dominated possesion and were among the leaders in shot differential. Yet we weren't winning. We didn't start scoring until the guys settled down and started picking the chances better. We generated less shots but the actual possession didn't change, and our scoring went up. Not because of shot attempts, but by being more patient with the shots.
nomorekids
The original, baby
That's not exactly true. Zone starts are hugely considered and weighted into analysis. Additionally, the latest wave of stats is also starting to quantify what a high\low danger shot is, and weighting that as well.
I think the goal is to simplify the analysis, even if it seems like it's overly complicating it. All that matters is, "when you're on the ice, is your team more likely to be controlling play than when you're not," the conclusion being "the best defense is a good offense."
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