Myth or Fact: Gretzky Elusive or No Touch Rule?

[chooch*]

Hi,

I lived in Van during the early 80's then moved to Edmonton where I knew Wayne. He's a great great guy. But hear on these site, I find its a myth that he was not helped.

My manager in Hull, Que gave me this book: The Code by Ron Bernstein where Glen Sonmor says:

When I was coaching the North Stars, I found it difficult to get my guys to even check Gretzky out there because they knew as soon as they did they were going to have to turn around and face his bodyguards McSorley and Semenko.


This show guys was scared and Wayne had lots of room on ice others didnt.

WHy did Wayne take McSOrley with him to LA?

I never saw Wayne take the puck and beat a few guys stckhandling and make nice plays, he played 40 minutes a game standing and waiting for a breakaway.

Thanks

Jenn

Agree?

 

[CapsCast]

He was elusive and he had teammates ready to fight if you nailed him.

 

[chooch*]

He was elusive and he had teammates ready to fight if you nailed him.

you contradict, no?

 

[Big Phil]

I think that maybe the fear did exist, but the main reason was that he was smarter than anyone else out there on the ice. Yeah you didnt see him go into traffic all that often but the reason guys didnt jump all oer him were a variety of reasons:

- players didnt want to directly pursue him because he saw the ice so well and if he was being pursued he would just dish the puck off to someone

- he always had his head up

- he had protectors like Semenko

- the instigator rule was not in place, this is a big one people forget


People forget that Bossy didnt get cheapshotted either. Gillies, Nystrom were there to murder anyone who did. Yzerman never got hassled either, because Probert was there. That's a big reason but to assume Gretzky was the only superstar to have protection is assinine.

He always had his head up. You rarely see Gretzky get hit in old clips. In a similar boat, you rarely see Crosby get hit either. It's because these guys know where everyone is. All the time. The difference between Crosby and Gretzky are two things: One, Crosby mucks it up in the corners more and gets into a ton of shoving matches. Two, the instigator rule. Go back to 1985 and let's see a clip of Scott Hartnell run into Crosby's jaw intentionally like the other game and then we'll see who the tough guy is. It wouldnt be Hartnell. But Hartnell does that because he can and he knows Laraque wont drop the gloves in an important game because of the extra penalty. That's the difference, the instigator rule, and the fact that Crosby goes where angels never tread

 

[Ogopogo*]

Two things: One, Gretzky was very elusive and hard to hit. Second, if a player was scared to hit Gretzky because he would face a potential fight, he didn't belong in the NHL and his team was poorly equipped to deal with physical hockey.

Saying Gretzky was protected by the league is complete crap.

 

[nik jr]

combination of both. gretzky's unparalleled vision helped him elude hits.

denis potvin on how hard it was to hit gretzky:

I wanted to hit him so badly sometimes, but I just really couldn't get a piece of him. He was like a master chessplayer. He knew where to go where he wasn't going to really run into a lot of traffic, and he had to be most effective.

about 5:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17iciOqUhlw

i've only seen lidstrom take a big hit twice in his whole career. he is just a very smart player.

players like gillies, semenko, probert, etc were there for a reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEajdo2sVnw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mw7a1cvSbA

 

[Sens Rule]

combination of both. gretzky's unparalleled vision helped him elude hits.

denis potvin on how hard it was to hit gretzky:

about 5:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17iciOqUhlw

Honestly I don't think Potvin would be scared of McSorley or Semenko.. he could fight and he was an all time great player. He might not have wanted to fight them but he was hardly the type of player a goon could go after anyway.

Some players didn't want to fight the Oilers goons. For sure. But that type of protection was available to most players throughout NHL history. For several years Steve Yzerman played on a line with Bob Probert.. think a lot of guys wanted to run Stevie Y at that time?

But the biggest reason was that Gretzky simply could avoid almost all attempts to wipe him out.. he knew where you were and if you went in for a big hit on him he avoided it... 99% of the time and then as if you needed a larger disadvantage one of your players was checking himself out of the play while Gretzky could pass the puck off to one of his talented teammates.

The fact is Gretzky was near unhittable... he played in a specific way to avoid being hit..... he'd invite you to take a run at him if that was your wish and that was just another 5-10 second PP for the stacked Oilers offence.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Two things: One, Gretzky was very elusive and hard to hit. Second, if a player was scared to hit Gretzky because he would face a potential fight, he didn't belong in the NHL and his team was poorly equipped to deal with physical hockey.

Saying Gretzky was protected by the league is complete crap.

Bullcrap. He was BOTH hard to hit, and protected by the league. I can name 2 instances where someone smoked Gretzky and never played an NHL game again. Bill McCreary jr Hit gretz and never played at NHL level again and Grant Mulvey(Hit Gretzky and was a 30 goal scorer to out of the league just like that) They made up some story about his knees failing, but he hit Gretz wham hard and never played another game.

Whether those instances were League infiltrated, or just coincidence is inconsequential. players saw that those guys hit gretz and were gone for good, and it frightened them into inaction just as much as McSorely and Semenko.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Honestly I don't think Potvin would be scared of McSorley or Semenko.. he could fight and he was an all time great player. He might not have wanted to fight them but he was hardly the type of player a goon could go after anyway.

Some players didn't want to fight the Oilers goons. For sure. But that type of protection was available to most players throughout NHL history. For several years Steve Yzerman played on a line with Bob Probert.. think a lot of guys wanted to run Stevie Y at that time?

But the biggest reason was that Gretzky simply could avoid almost all attempts to wipe him out.. he knew where you were and if you went in for a big hit on him he avoided it... 99% of the time and then as if you needed a larger disadvantage one of your players was checking himself out of the play while Gretzky could pass the puck off to one of his talented teammates.

The fact is Gretzky was near unhittable... he played in a specific way to avoid being hit..... he'd invite you to take a run at him if that was your wish and that was just another 5-10 second PP for the stacked Oilers offence.

Then why were Howe, Richard , Beliveau, Mikita, Orr and others all leading their teams in PIM and top 5 in league PIM one season or another?

Are they the goons you are referring to?

 

[Crosbyfan]

It was mostly Gretzky. Hardest guy ever to hit legally, and most effective perimeter player of all time.

But McSorely, Semenko and the refs protected him from illegal stuff like no other player before or since.

 

[WingsFan95]

Of course he was well protected, this isn't a myth or a mystery, guy was soft like a pancake.

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

If you had a star player who could not fight, why wouldn't you get an enforcer or two to protect him from any cheap shot?

 

[reckoning]

I can name 2 instances where someone smoked Gretzky and never played an NHL game again. Bill McCreary jr Hit gretz and never played at NHL level again and Grant Mulvey(Hit Gretzky and was a 30 goal scorer to out of the league just like that) They made up some story about his knees failing, but he hit Gretz wham hard and never played another game.

The McCreary urban legend just won't die.

Here's the facts: McCreary was drafted by Toronto in 1979 in the 6th round. He dropped out of college to try and play pro in 1980. He attended the Leafs training camp that fall but didn't make the team and was sent to their AHL affiliate in Moncton. In late-December that season with Toronto struggling badly, they decided to call up McCreary and give him a shot.

The hit on Gretzky occurred on Jan. 3 1981. That was McCreary's 3rd game with the Leafs. He played 12 games that season. So the myth that he never played in the NHL again is B.S. On Jan. 30, Toronto acquired Rene Robert in a trade. McCreary was sent to the minors when Robert arrived. Was that a conspiracy? No. This gave the Leafs at RW: Paiement, Vaive, Anderson and Robert. There was simply no room for him. The Leafs kept him in their system til 1983, but he never made it back to the NHL. Was that a conspiracy? Here's his numbers for the 12 games he played in `80-'81:

GP- 12; G- 1, A- 0, P- 1, PM- 4; SOG- 7; +/-: -6

Not exactly anything to get excited about. His AHL and IHL career stats indicate that he was nothing more than a marginal average player. He had a cup of coffee in the NHL; just like hundreds of others.

The Grant Mulvey example, and the implication that Mulvey immediately went from 30 goal scorer to out of hockey after hitting Gretzky is just ridiculous. Mulvey suffered a severe knee injury on Oct. 18/82 against Detroit. He missed the rest of the year.

He never really recovered. It isn't some "made-up story about his knees failing." He just simply couldn't do it anymore. In his last year, he had only 6 goals in 29 games in the AHL. Was that a conspiracy from the AHL scorekeepers?

And yet somehow Neal Broten and Doug Lecuyer stayed in the NHL after their fights with Gretzky. And Gary Suter as well after his cheap shot on Gretzky. How can this be?

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

not to mention Dave Taylor one-punching Gretzky.

 

[Ogopogo*]

not to mention Dave Taylor one-punching Gretzky.

Taylor never played another game in the NHL after that and was blacklisted from any off-ice positions in the league as well....



....well, not so much.


Some people who believe players got run out of the NHL for hitting Gretzky are probably the same ones that believe the moon landing was faked.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Hi,

I lived in Van during the early 80's then moved to Edmonton where I knew Wayne. He's a great great guy. But hear on these site, I find its a myth that he was not helped.

My manager in Hull, Que gave me this book: The Code by Ron Bernstein where Glen Sonmor says:

When I was coaching the North Stars, I found it difficult to get my guys to even check Gretzky out there because they knew as soon as they did they were going to have to turn around and face his bodyguards McSorley and Semenko.


This show guys was scared and Wayne had lots of room on ice others didnt.

WHy did Wayne take McSOrley with him to LA?

I never saw Wayne take the puck and beat a few guys stckhandling and make nice plays, he played 40 minutes a game standing and waiting for a breakaway.

Thanks

Jenn

Agree?

No. Gretzky was nothing special on breakaways, and certainly didn't stand and wait for them.

 

[Dark Shadows]

The McCreary urban legend just won't die.

Here's the facts: McCreary was drafted by Toronto in 1979 in the 6th round. He dropped out of college to try and play pro in 1980. He attended the Leafs training camp that fall but didn't make the team and was sent to their AHL affiliate in Moncton. In late-December that season with Toronto struggling badly, they decided to call up McCreary and give him a shot.

The hit on Gretzky occurred on Jan. 3 1981. That was McCreary's 3rd game with the Leafs. He played 12 games that season. So the myth that he never played in the NHL again is B.S. On Jan. 30, Toronto acquired Rene Robert in a trade. McCreary was sent to the minors when Robert arrived. Was that a conspiracy? No. This gave the Leafs at RW: Paiement, Vaive, Anderson and Robert. There was simply no room for him. The Leafs kept him in their system til 1983, but he never made it back to the NHL. Was that a conspiracy? Here's his numbers for the 12 games he played in `80-'81:

GP- 12; G- 1, A- 0, P- 1, PM- 4; SOG- 7; +/-: -6

Not exactly anything to get excited about. His AHL and IHL career stats indicate that he was nothing more than a marginal average player. He had a cup of coffee in the NHL; just like hundreds of others.

The Grant Mulvey example, and the implication that Mulvey immediately went from 30 goal scorer to out of hockey after hitting Gretzky is just ridiculous. Mulvey suffered a severe knee injury on Oct. 18/82 against Detroit. He missed the rest of the year.

He never really recovered. It isn't some "made-up story about his knees failing." He just simply couldn't do it anymore. In his last year, he had only 6 goals in 29 games in the AHL. Was that a conspiracy from the AHL scorekeepers?

And yet somehow Neal Broten and Doug Lecuyer stayed in the NHL after their fights with Gretzky. And Gary Suter as well after his cheap shot on Gretzky. How can this be?

Okay then. I just remember there being some big scandal on the matter back in the day, and did a quick google search to check. Someone might want to change the wikipedia. Gretzky's bio currently has links to those two players claiming "They never played another game" after hitting him.

If that info is incorrect, someone should delete it.

 

[Diving Pokecheck*]

Some people who believe players got run out of the NHL for hitting Gretzky are probably the same ones that believe the moon landing was faked.

exactly. I agree- in the 80's, guys like Scott Stevens, Chris Chelios, Al MacInnis, etc., when told not to hit the great one decided just to sit back and take it.

 

[chooch*]

exactly. I agree- in the 80's, guys like Scott Stevens, Chris Chelios, Al MacInnis, etc., when told not to hit the great one decided just to sit back and take it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-pf8WLTVYg

If you watch this, it is a joke, no?

The First goal by Ednonton Gretzky get assist - it was actually Colin Campbell (yes the same) who should get that one. Goal by MacDonald pass by Ashby.

Does that mean the official record shodul be revised to be 136 points??

At 2:07 on video, Gretzky scores at end of period. This is a joke ,no? Turnbull could have turned him into a squishee fly and let him skate around teh net. Then as Gretzky skates in front of net for backhand, Salming coudl have turned Gretzky into a squishee fly. Again no.

A joke.

No my freind. No one allow to hit Gretzky.


Another joke: at 3:10 on video is the next goal assisted nicely by Gretzky. Only as soon as Gretzky pass the puck the Leaf player coming at him could turn him into squishee fly. He just skate by. Scared. (btw no player willing to admit thsies things of course - dont look for quotes).

3 points.

Next: at 4:00 in video Edmonton scores again, Assist to Gretzky. BUT AGAIN he doesnt touch the puck on the play!

My goodness gracious. Should we correct the records again - 135 points!

4 points so far.

Next at 5 minutes, he is floating at center and scores on slapper like Carson used to.

Big guy!


Late in game he is still looking for more and has a chance - of course he eas "elusive " last man back and happened to get the puck.

Nonsense!

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-pf8WLTVYg

If you watch this, it is a joke, no?

The First goal by Ednonton Gretzky get assist - it was actually Colin Campbell (yes the same) who should get that one. Goal by MacDonald pass by Ashby.

Does that mean the official record shodul be revised to be 136 points??

At 2:07 on video, Gretzky scores at end of period. This is a joke ,no? Turnbull could have turned him into a squishee fly and let him skate around teh net. Then as Gretzky skates in front of net for backhand, Salming coudl have turned Gretzky into a squishee fly. Again no.

A joke.

No my freind. No one allow to hit Gretzky.


Another joke: at 3:10 on video is the next goal assisted nicely by Gretzky. Only as soon as Gretzky pass the puck the Leaf player coming at him could turn him into squishee fly. He just skate by. Scared. (btw no player willing to admit thsies things of course - dont look for quotes).

3 points.

Next: at 4:00 in video Edmonton scores again, Assist to Gretzky. BUT AGAIN he doesnt touch the puck on the play!

My goodness gracious. Should we correct the records again - 135 points!

4 points so far.

Next at 5 minutes, he is floating at center and scores on slapper like Carson used to.

Big guy!


Late in game he is still looking for more and has a chance - of course he eas "elusive " last man back and happened to get the puck.

Nonsense!

This is about the eighteen thousandth time the same evidence of the same two points out of 2800 whatever being in error has been posted. Surely someone can find some original footage to debunk the other 2798? Somebody should ****ing sticky it

Turnbull was a bit of a flake, but Borje Salming is of absolute unquestionable
character on the ice.

Late in game the 'elusive last man' gets the puck and scores. Jeez, I hate guys on my team who take the puck from their opponents and score.

 

[Big Phil]

Kelly Buchberger elbowed Gretzky in 1996 shortly after his trade to St. Louis. Buchberger answered the bell and fought. IIRC he did not even get a penalty. As the conspiracy continues Buchberger continued to Captain the Oilers, helped lead them into the playoffs the next year and scored an overtime goal in the playoffs in 1997. he then went to Atlanta and was captain in 1999. So where are the conspiracy experts on that one? Buchberger didnt even deliver a clean check it was nasty.

And to tell you the truth it would take a lot of work to see Crosby hit like Gretzky was in 1981 by McCreary. Why? The greats that have their heads up dont get hit becuase they are observant.

Again I'll mention why does Crosby gets jabs at him after the whistle and not Gretzky as much? Two reasons: The instigator rule, and the fact that Crosby will get more involved in the corners and will dish it out. Gretzky was a Lady Byng winner 5 times, Crosby had 114 penalty minutes in his rookie season. Doesnt that strike you as a guy that is more likely to get a punch/dirty hit?

 

[chooch*]

This is about the eighteen thousandth time the same evidence of the same two points out of 2800 whatever being in error has been posted. Surely someone can find some original footage to debunk the other 2798? Somebody should ****ing sticky it

Turnbull was a bit of a flake, but Borje Salming is of absolute unquestionable
character on the ice.

Late in game the 'elusive last man' gets the puck and scores. Jeez, I hate guys on my team who take the puck from their opponents and score.

You sound like flake yoruself. teh score be 8-1. and Gretzky looking for points to win Ross. Meannothing like that.

Watch and learn kiddie. Your hero debunked as poser impressing little kids with bubblegum play. Be man and fight own battles.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

You sound like flake yoruself. teh score be 8-1. and Gretzky looking for points to win Ross. Meannothing like that.

Watch and learn kiddie. Your hero debunked as poser impressing little kids with bubblegum play. Be man and fight own battles.

Thanks, cooch.

 

[chooch*]

Kelly Buchberger elbowed Gretzky in 1996 shortly after his trade to St. Louis. Buchberger answered the bell and fought. IIRC he did not even get a penalty. As the conspiracy continues Buchberger continued to Captain the Oilers, helped lead them into the playoffs the next year and scored an overtime goal in the playoffs in 1997. he then went to Atlanta and was captain in 1999. So where are the conspiracy experts on that one? Buchberger didnt even deliver a clean check it was nasty.

And to tell you the truth it would take a lot of work to see Crosby hit like Gretzky was in 1981 by McCreary. Why? The greats that have their heads up dont get hit becuase they are observant.

Again I'll mention why does Crosby gets jabs at him after the whistle and not Gretzky as much? Two reasons: The instigator rule, and the fact that Crosby will get more involved in the corners and will dish it out. Gretzky was a Lady Byng winner 5 times, Crosby had 114 penalty minutes in his rookie season. Doesnt that strike you as a guy that is more likely to get a punch/dirty hit?

You wrong little phil

WHo protect Rocket, Big Jean Gordie Orr
Men fight own battle

Mario break hand by Graves, break sternum by SHaw, etc etc

Lafelur break hand by Sittler, Jaw by Kyte, knee by Boutette etc etc.

Orr break knee many time

Phil Espo break knee

Rocket have to fight every night

Everyone except Mr Great Protected One.

Gretaky never slashed, No breakl bones never,

Not elusive

Protected

See Sonmor quote above, Little Phil!

He get extra 6 feet on ice.

DOnt compare to Man like Crosby Hah! Or Ovechkie!

hehhehehehhehehe.

Bossy break back carried off ice by this same Leafs in 78 playofs!

Answer that one, Little Phil!

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

You wrong little phil

WHo protect Rocket, Big Jean Gordie Orr
Men fight own battle

Mario break hand by Graves, break sternum by SHaw, etc etc

Lafelur break hand by Sittler, Jaw by Kyte, knee by Boutette etc etc.

Orr break knee many time

Phil Espo break knee

Rocket have to fight every night

Everyone except Mr Great Protected One.

Gretaky never slashed, No breakl bones never,

Not elusive

Protected

See Sonmor quote above, Little Phil!

He get extra 6 feet on ice.

DOnt compare to Man like Crosby Hah! Or Ovechkie!

hehhehehehhehehe.

Bossy break back carried off ice by this same Leafs in 78 playofs!

Answer that one, Little Phil!

I don't know how one cloaks their IP address or whatever you call it. What absolutely mystifies me is that Chooch is smart enough to do it.