My tribute to Makarov.

[Sentinel]

Since this was buried in another thread. It focuses on Makarov's clutch performance against NHL stars.

Thanks to Batis for finding the raw materials.



Music is Riot cover of Deep Purple's "Burn." Riot was another underappreciated act, so I thought it was fitting

Click to read more...

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Well, its great to have some Makarov highlights finally all in one place. Good job.

I found the focus on who he was on against a little distracting, though... A lot of those plays, its not like he was dominating those NHLers... He just 'happened' to score when they were on the ice. I mean, twice Potvin got victimized as the last guy back on a two-on-one. And Langway actually plays him pretty well and takes him out of the play.

Of course, those old videos are pretty grainy so I can see why you'd want to highlight that he was playing top competition. Can't always see the names or numbers clearly.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I think his hands were as good as Kovalev's. And he was like 10 times better in everything else.

 

[billcook]

Was rather surprised to see Langway, I thought that was Makarov tribute.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Always love watching Makarov!

A couple of things:
- I hope you're able to edit a few things, because Makarov's career didn't overlap with Mickey Redmond, and "Mike Tonelli" isn't a hockey player. I imagine these are oversights. Hopefully you can get "John Tonelli" in there, and perhaps that was Dick Redmond? Not sure what tournament it was from.
- I thought that some of the players pointed out kind of weakened the exercise - Gretzky floating around the net not defending anything isn't impressive, but overall, it did show some pretty fabulous one-on-one skills.

 

[steve141]

Nice video. Seems like a good way to refute the product-of-the-team/system claims. No system can make a player beat world class defenders one-on-one.

 

[VMBM]

Nice video. Seems like a good way to refute the product-of-the-team/system claims. No system can make a player beat world class defenders one-on-one.

Well, that should work as an argument for Krutov too, i.e. the player that mostly has had to face these "product-of-a-system" claims, apparently due to his failure in the NHL.

 

[feffan]

Nice watch! Nice to have the clips at one place. And I think it´s an fun point to make what defenders he was able to beat. The only one that played him really good in those clips where Langway.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

Nice watch! Nice to have the clips at one place. And I think it´s an fun point to make what defenders he was able to beat. The only one that played him really good in those clips where Langway.

Indeed. He sure 'beat' defensive giant Wayne Gretzky who just happened to be skating by. That's just a bit silly.

Nonetheless, a nice bunch of clips. Do people in the HOH forums really think he was just the product of the system? Or Krutov for that matter? I don't think I've read that before. Funny, as a kid I always thought Krutov was the greater menace (to Canada), but my sample size was mostly limited to the 87CC - was too young to really know any better for the 81/84 CCs.

 

[Batis]

I think his hands were as good as Kovalev's.

I just watched the Final Round game between the Soviets and Sweden at the 1986 WHC and one sequence really stood out to me from the game. When the Swedish team played with 6 skaters to try to tie the game Makarov decided to put on a stickhandling exhibition and play keep away with the puck to kill some time. Here is the video of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4ECggCYTI&t=15m21s

 

[Batis]

Thanks to Batis for finding the raw materials.

And thank you for making the video. Great music choice by the way

 

[feffan]

Indeed. He sure 'beat' defensive giant Wayne Gretzky who just happened to be skating by. That's just a bit silly.

Nonetheless, a nice bunch of clips. Do people in the HOH forums really think he was just the product of the system? Or Krutov for that matter? I don't think I've read that before. Funny, as a kid I always thought Krutov was the greater menace (to Canada), but my sample size was mostly limited to the 87CC - was too young to really know any better for the 81/84 CCs.

Some of the namedropping may seem silly. I think not. To have an tribute that directley show what somebody could do against the very best of the best, when that player time after time is doubted at his ability to produce high numbers in the NHL in the same era because most of his peak was in "just the WC" or "on unfairly stacked CSKA teams in an weak russian leauge" has it´s point. It´s not as much on the HOH forum, as especially Makarov and Fetisov seem to be on the rise here. If you got the "Top Players of All-Time Lists" from 2008 here you will find Makarov in 77th place. In the "Top Wingers of All-Time" he was 6th, ahead of for example Bossy who placed 27th on the 2008 Top Players list. I hope Krutov gets an push up, as he to me still is underrated, as I can´t agree with putting for example Goulet or Recchi ahead of him on an Top Winger list. To me he belongs somewhere between 15-30 on that list.

So even if namedropping Gretzky in that clip may seem silly, it´s still Makarov putting on a clinic with the best line Canada has ever put on ice (Lemieux-Greztky-Messier) and with Coffey and Bourque in the rear end. The best hockey player ever. A 2-4 hockey player ever. An top 8-15 hockey player ever. And and an top 3 defender ever with another top 15 defender ever as his partner. So the namedropping to me has an point.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Some of the namedropping may seem silly. I think not. To have an tribute that directley show what somebody could do against the very best of the best, when that player time after time is doubted at his ability to produce high numbers in the NHL in the same era because most of his peak was in "just the WC" or "on unfairly stacked CSKA teams in an weak russian leauge" has it´s point. It´s not as much on the HOH forum, as especially Makarov and Fetisov seem to be on the rise here. If you got the "Top Players of All-Time Lists" from 2008 here you will find Makarov in 77th place. In the "Top Wingers of All-Time" he was 6th, ahead of for example Bossy who placed 27th on the 2008 Top Players list. I hope Krutov gets an push up, as he to me still is underrated, as I can´t agree with putting for example Goulet or Recchi ahead of him on an Top Winger list. To me he belongs somewhere between 15-30 on that list.

So even if namedropping Gretzky in that clip may seem silly, it´s still Makarov putting on a clinic with the best line Canada has ever put on ice (Lemieux-Greztky-Messier) and with Coffey and Bourque in the rear end. The best hockey player ever. A 2-4 hockey player ever. An top 8-15 hockey player ever. And and an top 3 defender ever with another top 15 defender ever as his partner. So the namedropping to me has an point.

The play you're referring to, I don't think anyone has a problem with. Makarov is obvious doing a fantastic job, ragging the puck there, and while nobody really "takes" him, per se, the fact that he catches everyone off guard is notable.

There's another clip, with Makarov playing for the Sharks, where Garpenlov makes a pick on an unidentified Kings defenseman, and Makarov walks in alone and scores on Kelly Hrudey. The video points out that Gretzky was also gliding towards the net from the opposite direction, not covering anybody. That's lame.

 

[Sentinel]

The video points out that Gretzky was also gliding towards the net from the opposite direction, not covering anybody. That's lame.

OK, Mr., is it any more lame than the "Gretzky had it, lost it" catchphrase?

My video isn't perfect. Thanks for pointing out that I have somehow rechristened John Tonelli "Mike". But it serves the purpose.

 

[Johnny Engine]

OK, Mr., is it any more lame than the "Gretzky had it, lost it" catchphrase?

My video isn't perfect. Thanks for pointing out that I have somehow rechristened John Tonelli "Mike". But it serves the purpose.

As I understand it, the reason that line gets so much play is because that goal gets watched so much - it's a game 7 OT goal, by a popular player, captured by an insane bit of camera work. If anyone uses it to pump Stevie's tires, it's because of the laser shot, not because he happened to capitalize on a turnover from Wayne.

When I say "lame", I just mean that the Sharks-Kings clip near the end is a weak example of Makarov's competition. Gretzky doesn't have anything to do with the play, and the one guy Makarov actuallly beats on the play is Hrudey, who's good enough, I suppose, but not on the Fuhr/Hasek level of goalies you point out otherwise.

But I get it. The song was 6 minutes long, and there was bound to be some filler included. It's a good video, and I'm 100% on board with it's premise.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

As I understand it, the reason that line gets so much play is because that goal gets watched so much - it's a game 7 OT goal, by a popular player, captured by an insane bit of camera work. If anyone uses it to pump Stevie's tires, it's because of the laser shot, not because he happened to capitalize on a turnover from Wayne.

When I say "lame", I just mean that the Sharks-Kings clip near the end is a weak example of Makarov's competition. Gretzky doesn't have anything to do with the play, and the one guy Makarov actuallly beats on the play is Hrudey, who's good enough, I suppose, but not on the Fuhr/Hasek level of goalies you point out otherwise.

But I get it. The song was 6 minutes long, and there was bound to be some filler included. It's a good video, and I'm 100% on board with it's premise.

Exactly. It cheapens the premise (i.e. Makarov for HHOF) to try to implicate Gretzky was directly 'beaten' on the play by Makarov when clearly that is not the case. Similarly in other cases where a big name just happened to be on the ice as Makarov goes by.

My take-aways from the video are:

-Makarov was a very fine player
-But he is not as fast as Paul Coffey
-Rod Langway lives up to his billing as Minister of Defence
-Gretzky is not exactly Bob Gainey on the back check
-Mickey Redmond's career did not overlap with Makarov's
-Who the hell is Mike Tonelli?

 

[Johnny Engine]

Another thing about the clip I keep bringing up: The one thing it really shows is Makarov's patience. Yeah, he gets some help from Garpenlov and a few other Sharks who make some very 90s picks (that would be interference penalties today), but Makarov holds onto the puck, weaves around the zone, and waits for a hole to open up instead of just dumping it off to a defenseman on the point or throwing it blindly on net. That's real greatness, more so than scoring a goal in the general vicinity of Wayne Gretzky.

 

[feffan]

The play you're referring to, I don't think anyone has a problem with. Makarov is obvious doing a fantastic job, ragging the puck there, and while nobody really "takes" him, per se, the fact that he catches everyone off guard is notable.

There's another clip, with Makarov playing for the Sharks, where Garpenlov makes a pick on an unidentified Kings defenseman, and Makarov walks in alone and scores on Kelly Hrudey. The video points out that Gretzky was also gliding towards the net from the opposite direction, not covering anybody. That's lame.

My bad, I tought it was the first clip

But even the second clip, when one can see the replay, one can see that Gretzky had the chance of being part of breaking it up at the blue line as Makarov takes an U-stroll from almost behind the goal line before he scores. Amongst others on the ice where Kurri. Not exactly mid-late 80´s form. But I´m guessing it´s 93/94, during Gretzkys last Art Ross season. As Garpenlöv was only on Makarovs Sharks for 13GP in 94/95. There still is an point to show what an 35 year old, nothing like his prime or peak version, Makarov could do against the team and unite that included that seasons Art Ross winner. That makes one think and dream of what an 79-86 Makarov could have done in the leauge.

I like it. And it serves it´s point.

 

[danincanada]

Great video!

Seeing Makarov beat so many of the NHLs best defenders multiple times, and often two of those guys paired together, makes me wonder what kind of numbers he would have put up in the NHL throughout the 80's. If Dale Hawerchuck could put up 130 points in the mid 80's I'd guess Makarov would be somewhere between that and what Gretzky was doing. 150 to 170 points at his best?

He made guys like Robinson, Potvin, and Bourque look silly so imagine what he'd do against an average NHL defender back then with an average goaltender to beat?

 

[feffan]

150 to 170 points at his best?

I think it´s plausible Makarov would have the highest scoring season outside Gretzky/Lemieux instead of Yzerman if he arrived in the NHL early 80´s. Of course, it takes oppurtunity, chance and other things to colide for such an season to happen even from the best.

 

[Batis]

I think it´s plausible Makarov would have the highest scoring season outside Gretzky/Lemieux instead of Yzerman if he arrived in the NHL early 80´s. Of course, it takes oppurtunity, chance and other things to colide for such an season to happen even from the best.

I agree that it is plausible that Makarov could have scored 155+ points in a peak season but at the very least I think that it is likely that Makarov would have peaked somewhere around 140-150 points and that he would have had multiple 120+ seasons during his prime. Especially considering how consistent Makarov was when it came to producing points. See below.

77/78: 0.86 (Age 19, Soviet League)
78/79: 0.89 (Age 20, Soviet League)
79/80: 1.55 (Age 21, Soviet League)
80/81: 1.61 (Age 22, Soviet League)
81/82: 1.63 (Age 23, Soviet League)
82/83: 1.40 (Age 24, Soviet League)
83/84: 1.66 (Age 25, Soviet League)
84/85: 1.63 (Age 26, Soviet League)
85/86: 1.55 (Age 27, Soviet League)
86/87: 1.33 (Age 28, Soviet League)
87/88: 1.33 (Age 29, Soviet League)
88/89: 1.23 (Age 30, Soviet League)
89/90: 1.08 (Age 31, NHL)
90/91: 1.01 (Age 32, NHL)
91/92: 1.03 (Age 33, NHL)
92/93: 0.80 (Age 34, NHL)
93/94: 0.85 (Age 35, NHL)
94/95: 0.56 (Age 36, NHL)

After his jump in scoring between the 78/79 season and the 79/80 season his numbers was slowly and steadily improving up until his statistical peak season in 83/84 (with one exception in the 82/83 season where he got a shoulder injury and his points per game average dropped abit possibly due to him being somewhat affected by the injury even in some of the games that he did play in). After his statistical peak in 83/84 Makarovs domestic numbers started to slowly decline season by season instead.

 

[Johnny Engine]

My bad, I tought it was the first clip

But even the second clip, when one can see the replay, one can see that Gretzky had the chance of being part of breaking it up at the blue line as Makarov takes an U-stroll from almost behind the goal line before he scores. Amongst others on the ice where Kurri. Not exactly mid-late 80´s form. But I´m guessing it´s 93/94, during Gretzkys last Art Ross season. As Garpenlöv was only on Makarovs Sharks for 13GP in 94/95. There still is an point to show what an 35 year old, nothing like his prime or peak version, Makarov could do against the team and unite that included that seasons Art Ross winner. That makes one think and dream of what an 79-86 Makarov could have done in the leauge.

I like it. And it serves it´s point.

For sure. If Sentinel was able/wanted to bother with editing the video to point out Gretzky earlier in the clip, it would probably strengthen it a bit.

 

[Holkoun]

Makarov is one of the best ever played this game. saying anything else is big underappreciation of him.

p.s. please correct statistics for Gretzky's points in canada cup.

 

[Sentinel]

Makarov is one of the best ever played this game. saying anything else is big underappreciation of him.

p.s. please correct statistics for Gretzky's points in canada cup.

Meaning? I think I took them from Wikipedia (but I can't remember).

Unfortunately I can't fix anything, because the video is already up on YT, and I don't want to reupload it.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Another interesting Makarov's video, there are moments in it I haven't seen in other videos. He kinda reminds me Panarin (or rather Panarin reminds Makarov), but Makarov was a way better skater.