Proposal: MTL / CBJ Patrick Laine

[cbjthrowaway]

From a Columbus side of view, what would be a fair proposition for Laine. I think a late first is quite valuable in the circumstance but I am curious to know your proposition .

from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is:

• CBJ gets:
  • one of matheson or dach
  • cap dump (dvorak, armia or price's LTIR hit)
• MTL gets:
  • patrik laine
  • a second roster piece (one of boqvist or texier)
  • the jackets 2nd round pick (36OA)

i assume i'm gonna get some angry habs fans replying to this, but here's my rationale:

that deal lines up more with team needs (maturation + stability + improvement) and asset sheet (excess RFA-age players + a pipeline that doesn't benefit from non-top-15 picks).

the jackets wouldn't be interested in adding the 26th overall pick for laine. waddell wants to improve the team right now – the jackets are better off just keeping laine and trying to do a better job of maximizing his talents.

if he bounces back and they're still out of it at the deadline, they can flip him at 50% ($4.35m) as a multi-season rental and get a much bigger haul than the 26th pick.

hence the counter-offer: adding the 36th pick + another young roster piece to laine and taking back a veteran cap dump in order to pry a piece that helps them more now (matheson/dach) but isn't a one-year rental.

matheson would be a perfect second fiddle to werenski, and free them up to move provorov (who they can easily retain on) to recoup the futures used on this trade. alternatively, dach gives them a long-term #2 to play behind fantilli.

unless you're gonna offer a laine trade that makes the jackets better right now, or offer up actual premium futures, there simply isn't an offer intriguing enough to outweigh the upside of giving him another year.

 

[elmaco]

CBJ hangs up tbh.

 

[Spacehabs]

from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is:

• CBJ gets:
  • one of matheson or dach
  • cap dump (dvorak, armia or price's LTIR hit)
• MTL gets:
  • patrik laine
  • a second roster piece (one of boqvist or texier)
  • the jackets 2nd round pick (36OA)

i assume i'm gonna get some angry habs fans replying to this, but here's my rationale:

that deal lines up more with team needs (maturation + stability + improvement) and asset sheet (excess RFA-age players + a pipeline that doesn't benefit from non-top-15 picks).

the jackets wouldn't be interested in adding the 26th overall pick for laine. waddell wants to improve the team right now – the jackets are better off just keeping laine and trying to do a better job of maximizing his talents.

if he bounces back and they're still out of it at the deadline, they can flip him at 50% ($4.35m) as a multi-season rental and get a much bigger haul than the 26th pick.

hence the counter-offer: adding the 36th pick + another young roster piece to laine and taking back a veteran cap dump in order to pry a piece that helps them more now (matheson/dach) but isn't a one-year rental.

matheson would be a perfect second fiddle to werenski, and free them up to move provorov (who they can easily retain on) to recoup the futures used on this trade. alternatively, dach gives them a long-term #2 to play behind fantilli.

unless you're gonna offer a laine trade that makes the jackets better right now, or offer up actual premium futures, there simply isn't an offer intriguing enough to outweigh the upside of giving him another year.

I respect that but I can confirm you that Dach dont get traded for Laine at 8,7M and on a cold streak haha Dach is young and hes a 22yo big centerman, you can understand thats make no sense even if you add a marginal player like Texier. For Matheson, I just dont understand why you really need him when you just traded for Provorov behind Werenski who is younger and still have upside. We are in the same situation, 2th round pick dont attract us bc we are almost cap in contract aon B to C prospect. I just think CBJ fans better hope he become what he was bc nobody gonna give an impact player for him with his salary and personnal issue/performance.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Hell yeah from this Habs fan

However, I don't think it's the best place for Laine

 

[Scintillating10]

MTL received : Patrick Laine, Mathieu Olivier

CBS received : 1st 2024 #26, Christian Dvorak, Jordan Harris

I think Columbus need C depth and are willing to trade huge cap hit of Laine. What do you think is the value of Laine with his contract and being on the player assistance program ?

Laine contract really heavy. Dvorak for Laine most I would go.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I just think CBJ fans better hope he become what he was bc nobody gonna give an impact player for him with his salary and personnal issue/performance.

not that you were asking this specific question, but your note above is a concise answer to "why are all the laine proposals on this board coming from non-cbj fans?"

laine's coming off of a lost season, but it wasn't a regression/effort issue, it was extenuating circumstances (concussion, broken clavicle, wonky usage by a coach who likely won't be here, mental health stuff that is only laine's business) – the player he was in 21-22 and 22-23 was an impact player.

the jackets are far better off keeping and supporting laine – and then making a decision on his long-term future – than they are trading him now while his perceived value is at its lowest point. which is why it's only the non-cbj fans who keep posting these types of proposals on this board and on capfriendly.

We are in the same situation, 2th round pick dont attract us bc we are almost cap in contract aon B to C prospect.

that is precisely why these types of proposals have zero appeal to the blue jackets. our pipeline isn't the problem, it's the current roster.

 

[Garbageyuk]

CBS is a new one

How about CUJ?

 

[Viqsi]

His career average is 0.8 PPG

Not in Columbus. I specified here. Not elsewhere. Here in Columbus.

 

[sansabri]

How about CUJ?

columbus urban jackets??

 

[jfhabs]

Not in Columbus. I specified here. Not elsewhere. Here in Columbus.

still 0.84 in Columbus not PPG... that's 68 pts over 82 games.

 

[Viqsi]

still 0.84 in Columbus not PPG... that's 68 pts over 82 games.

 

[Garbageyuk]

columbus urban jackets??

Union Jackets.

 

[Fro]

still 0.84 in Columbus not PPG... that's 68 pts over 82 games.

Not sure where those numbers came from bc completely wrong...as @Viqsi posted below

Oh taking the 18 games last year where he only had 9 pts...the entire team regressed this year

 

[bud12]

View attachment 880305

What about 20-21 and 23-24??

 

[Canadienna]

Just curious, do CBJ fans value Laine or Johnson more?

 

[Viqsi]

What about 20-21 and 23-24??

The early season that doesn't show what he's become here and the season where he spent most of his game time concussed? The former isn't relevant and the latter is just the reason why he's an acknowledged risk for other teams to acquire.

 

[dumbdick]

He's been consistently one or two points or so away from PPG, though (has actually reached it while he's here), so you're kind of splitting hairs on that detail.

he has 138 points in 174 games with the blue jackets. He's 77th among forwards since jan 1, 2020 in ppg (>=100 gp)

 

[Viqsi]

he has 138 points in 174 games with the blue jackets. He's 77th among forwards since jan 1, 2020 in ppg (>=100 gp)

Proposal: - MTL / CBJ Patrick Laine

From a Columbus side of view, what would be a fair proposition for Laine. I think a late first is quite valuable in the circumstance but I am curious to know your proposition . from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is: CBJ gets: one of matheson or dach cap dump...

forums.hfboards.com

Proposal: - MTL / CBJ Patrick Laine

From a Columbus side of view, what would be a fair proposition for Laine. I think a late first is quite valuable in the circumstance but I am curious to know your proposition . from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is: CBJ gets: one of matheson or dach cap dump...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[cbjthrowaway]

still 0.84 in Columbus not PPG... that's 68 pts over 82 games.

the last time he was 100% he put up 108 points over 111 games played (21-22 and 22-23) and, to add context

1. the jackets had (and still have) the worst group of centers in the league at that time
2. the jackets had (and still have) an utterly non-functional power play
3. those are the two best seasons of laine's career in terms of 5v5 primary p/60
4. in 22-23 he was their best forward in pretty much every advanced stat category at 5v5

the perception that he is somehow a lesser player than he was in winnipeg is entirely driven by being on a bad team with a broken power play. the player he was in the two years prior to this (lost) season was the best version of laine that the NHL has seen.

 

[dumbdick]

Proposal: - MTL / CBJ Patrick Laine

From a Columbus side of view, what would be a fair proposition for Laine. I think a late first is quite valuable in the circumstance but I am curious to know your proposition . from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is: CBJ gets: one of matheson or dach cap dump...

forums.hfboards.com

Proposal: - MTL / CBJ Patrick Laine

From a Columbus side of view, what would be a fair proposition for Laine. I think a late first is quite valuable in the circumstance but I am curious to know your proposition . from a columbus POV, the only framework that would really work is: CBJ gets: one of matheson or dach cap dump...

forums.hfboards.com

Oh, you should have specified you were only talking about his two best seasons, while ignoring his latest season and the other 5 he played.

I see how that can be confusing for some of us.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

What about 20-21

nhl players famously never struggle to adapt to new teams/systems after an in-season trade, especially when john tortorella coaches the team they get traded to!

and 23-24??

nhl players famously never struggle when played out of position or coming back from a major concussion!

 

[Viqsi]

Oh, you should have specified you were only talking about his two best seasons, while ignoring his latest season and the other 5 he played.

I see how that can be confusing for some of us.

Well, seeing as though those were the two primary seasons he's played uninjured in Columbus and not elsewhere, and I had already repeatedly asserted that he'd performed like that in Columbus and not elsewhere, I figured I didn't have to clarify further that I was referring to in Columbus and not elsewhere.

But you seem to have missed that I was referring to in Columbus and not elsewhere. So for the record - when I referred to him as being pretty consistently near-PPG in Columbus and not elsewhere, I was referring to in Columbus and not elsewhere.

Hope this helps!


EDIT: Should also note - the reason why I was referring just to in Columbus and not elsewhere is because that point came up in the context of why we would want to hang on to him. Since us hanging on to him means he'd be playing in Columbus and not elsewhere, we would naturally be interested only in his performance in Columbus and not elsewhere, since that would provide a reasonable expectation of how, presuming a bounceback, he would be most likely to perform in the future in Columbus and not elsewhere.

 

[dumbdick]

still 0.84 in Columbus not PPG... that's 68 pts over 82 games.

Interestingly, he has also scored exactly 68 points in his most recent 82 games.

 

[bud12]

nhl players famously never struggle to adapt to new teams/systems after an in-season trade, especially when john tortorella coaches the team they get traded to!

nhl players famously never struggle when played out of position or coming back from a major concussion!

so in cumulative, he's not a ppg foward with columbus so what the guy said is right

 

[26Mats]

MTL received : Patrick Laine, Mathieu Olivier

CBS received : 1st 2024 #26, Christian Dvorak, Jordan Harris

I think Columbus need C depth and are willing to trade huge cap hit of Laine. What do you think is the value of Laine with his contract and being on the player assistance program ?

As a Habs fan I'd do this.

But I don't think the Jackets are in a rush to move Laine. So, I don't see them doing so in a sell-low scenario.

Laine is not a HuGo type of player imo. I don't see them being interested.

HuGo have brought in a variety of types of players. They usually look to add talent if the assets they give up warrant it. This would be a different situation though, given Laine's cap hit.

But here are some players they have brought in:

- Gurianov
- Dadonov
- Mesar
- Dach
- Newhook

- Matheson
- Barron
- Clague
- Hutson

There's a variety of players on that list. Main thing they have in common is skating.