Move over Jim Benning, Joe Sakic is the worst GM in the NHL (long)

[LaP]

Can he make a few more bad decisions please? Like trading Duchene and/or Lando to the isles. I can dream right

Hey the Avs owe one to us for Roy. It's time to payback

 

[KingBran]

Posts like this one are just stupid, last year it was Steve Yzerman as the worst GM(and this year he is a good GM) and now it is Sakic, if the Avs do good next year, than Sakic becomes a good GM.

Problem with your assertion here is that the Avs really haven't been that great outside of one season where Varlamov was playing possessed and the Blues took a huge dump at the end of the season to hand the Avs the Central.

 

[Don Corleone]

Posts like this one are just stupid, last year it was Steve Yzerman as the worst GM(and this year he is a good GM) and now it is Sakic, if the Avs do good next year, than Sakic becomes a good GM.

Completely false. Sakic will remain a bad GM even if the next 6 months go above expectations. A short period of doing well will not remove his past failures. It will reduce the hostility towards him but for Sakic to be considered good next year he would have to make at least a few great moves, something he has never done.

 

[Muffin]

The problem in Colorado is Sakic (and previously Roy).

They were set-up to be very successful had they gone with the "default" options:

1) Re-sign ROR (top-6 center locked down)
2) Re-sign Statsny (middle-6 center locked down)
3) Draft Larsson (2nd pairing anchor RD)
4) Draft Jones (Franchise RD)

Instead, they tried to be cute and it has blown up in their face. Traded dollars and quarters for nickles and dimes. Wingers are just not that valuable.

1) Nikita Zadorov (ok), Mikhail Grigorenko(eh), J.T. Compher(depth player at best), 2015 2nd round pick (too early)
2) Signed Soderberg for $4.75 million/year (ugh)
3) Drafted Landenskog (a winger at #2? really?)
4) Drafted Mackinnon (a good flashy forward, but not somebody to build a team around)

Had they just gone with the default, they would have Johnson and Barrie available for trade for a LD and a really good young winger. Heck, if they were smart, they could have gotten 2 LD and 2 wingers in those deals, because teams are desperate for RD.

Those are the moves that killed the franchise.

So much wrong with this post, I wish people would just stop commenting on teams they don't follow.

1) Re-sign ROR (top-6 center locked down)
2) Re-sign Statsny (middle-6 center locked down)
You can't have another 14 - 15M tied up in Centres when you already have Duchene and MacKinnon, those two wanted way too much money to fit in the team's cap structure.

1) Nikita Zadorov (ok), Mikhail Grigorenko(eh), J.T. Compher(depth player at best), 2015 2nd round pick (too early)
O'Reilly forced his way out, that was the best return. We're looking at basically 4 first round picks here. Calling Compher a depth player just shows you don't have a clue about the Avs, Buffalo was extremely high on him, he's playing well in his first year as a pro. I'm guessing you don't even know who the 2nd round pick turned into, it turned into two 2nd round picks, one of which is AJ Greer, AHL all star in his first pro season.

2) Signed Soderberg for $4.75 million/year (ugh)
He's having a bad year, but he put up 51 points in a career year last season, that's a bargain at 4.75M

3) Drafted Landenskog (a winger at #2? really?)
3) Draft Larsson (2nd pairing anchor RD)
You always draft BPA, Landeskog has more value than Larsson, Landeskog would still go 2nd overall in a redraft behind Gaudreau, another winger, what do you know?

4) Draft Jones (Franchise RD)
Again, you always draft BPA, MacKinnon still holds more value than Jones to this day.

Sakic has made mistakes, but those aren't it. His mistakes were:

Trading a 2nd for Stuart
Trading a 2nd for Berra
Signing Iginla and Beauchemin for longer terms than he should have.

There was nothing wrong with letting Stastny and O'Reilly go, his mistakes were spending the money saved on the wrong players.
The year they won the Central division was the worst thing to happen to this franchise, they believed they were closer than they really were so they went out and signed all these Veterans believing they'd take them over the top instead of staying the course.

 

[nickschultzfan]

So much wrong with this post, I wish people would just stop commenting on teams they don't follow.

1) Re-sign ROR (top-6 center locked down)
2) Re-sign Statsny (middle-6 center locked down)
You can't have another 14 - 15M tied up in Centres when you already have Duchene and MacKinnon, those two wanted way too much money to fit in the team's cap structure.

1) Nikita Zadorov (ok), Mikhail Grigorenko(eh), J.T. Compher(depth player at best), 2015 2nd round pick (too early)
O'Reilly forced his way out, that was the best return. We're looking at basically 4 first round picks here. Calling Compher a depth player just shows you don't have a clue about the Avs, Buffalo was extremely high on him, he's playing well in his first year as a pro.

2) Signed Soderberg for $4.75 million/year (ugh)
He's having a bad year, but he put up 51 points in a career year last season, that's a bargain at 4.75M

3) Drafted Landenskog (a winger at #2? really?)
3) Draft Larsson (2nd pairing anchor RD)
You always draft BPA, Landeskog has more value than Larsson, Landeskog would still go 2nd overall in a redraft behind Gaudreau, another winger, what do you know?

4) Draft Jones (Franchise RD)
Again, you always draft BPA, MacKinnon still holds more value than Jones to this day.

Sakic has made mistakes, but those aren't it. His mistakes were:

Trading a 2nd for Stuart
Trading a 2nd for Berra
Signing Iginla and Beauchemin for longer terms than he should have.

There was nothing wrong with letting Stastny and O'Reilly go, his mistakes were spending the money saved on the wrong players.
The year they won the Central division was the worst thing to happen to this franchise, they believed they were closer than they really were so they went out and signed all these Veterans believing they'd take them over the top instead of staying the course.

I could not disagree more. Neither Landenskog or MacKinnon were BPA. Larsson and Jones were, and every day this gets more clear. At the time, there were a large faction that thought it was best to go with the Dman. But the old-line thinking of "You have to draft OFFENSE!" and "Physicality wins!" pushed Sakic/Roy to draft players who's best position in the NHL is on the wing.

NHL is coming around to the concept that defensemen are not just a little bit more valuable than wingers, but a heck of a lot more value.

Same thing happened with the NFL and running backs and tackles. It took a long while realized that even if stats made a running back nominally appear to be very valuable, and tackles not so much, in terms of marginal benefit, running backs were horribly overvalued and tackles significantly undervalued.

I'm also going to take a shot at the BPA strategy in general as well. Even if Landeskog and MacKinnon were BPA, that strategy only works if you can then make secondary moves to maximize the value you get in the draft. If you draft a $100 player because he's "better" than your $90 player at the same position, but then trade the $90 player for $70 coming back, you are an idiot who lost $10 in value. You would have been better drafting the $95 player in a position of need.

Re-signing ROR and Statsny is not a problem if Mackinnon and Landenskog were never drafted. Dropping ~$20 million on 3 centers might seem like a lot, but not when they become the backbone of your team and you can fill the wingers for cheap.

 

[Murzu]

The problem in Colorado is Sakic (and previously Roy).

They were set-up to be very successful had they gone with the "default" options:

1) Re-sign ROR (top-6 center locked down)
2) Re-sign Statsny (middle-6 center locked down)
3) Draft Larsson (2nd pairing anchor RD)
4) Draft Jones (Franchise RD)

Instead, they tried to be cute and it has blown up in their face. Traded dollars and quarters for nickles and dimes. Wingers are just not that valuable.

1) Nikita Zadorov (ok), Mikhail Grigorenko(eh), J.T. Compher(depth player at best), 2015 2nd round pick (too early)
2) Signed Soderberg for $4.75 million/year (ugh)
3) Drafted Landenskog (a winger at #2? really?)
4) Drafted Mackinnon (a good flashy forward, but not somebody to build a team around)

Had they just gone with the default, they would have Johnson and Barrie available for trade for a LD and a really good young winger. Heck, if they were smart, they could have gotten 2 LD and 2 wingers in those deals, because teams are desperate for RD.

Those are the moves that killed the franchise.

There is so much wrong in this post that I can't even. You can't just do things at will. Won't go thru everything, but they tried to re-sign ROR and Stastny - ROR wanted 8x8 and Stastny got 7M per from STL, while Avs had three top 6 centers even without him. Takes two to tango.

 

[Retire91]

Meanwhile Yzerman is one of the best GM in the league forever settling the Yzerman > Sakic debate

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Too many teams nowadays who want to put their "greatest player" in that executive role, and then can't tell them to get out because it soils the history.

 

[nickschultzfan]

There is so much wrong in this post that I can't even. You can't just do things at will. Won't go thru everything, but they tried to re-sign ROR and Stastny - ROR wanted 8x8 and Stastny got 7M per from STL, while Avs had three top 6 centers even without him. Takes two to tango.

You really think ROR and Statsny wanted out of Colorado so bad that they wouldn't have re-signed for contracts similar to what they got?

And if they did want out that bad, wouldn't that be again the fault of Sakic/Roy?

ROR wanted big time money. That pissed off the organization. But, it turns out, ROR wasn't entirely coming from left field. He's a great young player entering his prime in a position of extreme value. He was also closer to free agency than most players his age.

Statsny is a tougher case, but again, it's not like his contract demands were out of line of the market. And having MacKinnon there didn't help the situation. If the Avs had drafted Larrson and Jones, Statsny would have probably stayed.

 

[Murzu]

You really think ROR and Statsny wanted out of Colorado so bad that they wouldn't have re-signed for contracts similar to what they got?

And if they did want out that bad, wouldn't that be again the fault of Sakic/Roy?

ROR wanted big time money. That pissed off the organization. But, it turns out, ROR wasn't entirely coming from left field. He's a great young player entering his prime in a position of extreme value. He was also closer to free agency than most players his age.

Statsny is a tougher case, but again, it's not like his contract demands were out of line of the market. And having MacKinnon there didn't help the situation. If the Avs had drafted Larrson and Jones, Statsny would have probably stayed.

It was reported that ROR wanted 8x8M from the Avs, so more than from Buffalo. No even idea how much of that contract would had been in signing bonuses. He wanted away, the relationship was cancerous.

If I remember correctly, Avs offered Stastny over 6M per and longer term than STL. Too lazy to find the source. But that is more than fair for him.

I agree, having drafted Jones instead of MacKinnon would most likely had resulted in ROR or Stastny, most likely the latter, staying. But MacKinnon was and is the BPA IMO.

 

[Nuckles]

What an ignorant thing to say. From your perspective and some online rags, yes. But a good GM makes trades like these because he knows more about the players than you do.

Ragging on him for trades that have worked out because they 'seemed' like poor value trades at the time is just the pushing of a ridiculous agenda. It's intellectually dishonest.

So if you trade Crosby for a 7th round pick, and then that 7th round pick becomes a better player than Crosby it's a good trade?

 

[gump116]

Um, how is Garth Snow not part of this conversation? Think he's worse than Sakic or Benning. He's been Isles GM for over 10 years and has wasted a lot of Tavares' prime. Going to look even worse a year from now when Tavares likely leaves.

 

[Freudian]

53rd overall pick + Kyle Wood for 18 games of Boedker is very much in the bad category. Might be the worst move he ever made, if Kyle Wood doesn't slow down.

Trading Shane O'Brien and David Jones for Cory Sarich and Alex Tanguay was a good trade, even though Tanguay sucked the last year.

Trading 31st overall pick for 39th pick, 2016 2nd round and 6th round picks was good but probably very easy to make since Sharks desperately wanted to draft Roy.

 

[SenzZen]

At least he's a helluva Tank Commander!

 

[Boomstick]

Maybe Bob Hartley can get all those Flames performing again. I really disliked Bourque and Comeau as Flames, didn't mind Colborne but wow has he been bad. Of course I don't even have to talk about Iggy. Always be a Flame in our hearts.

 

[Aceboogie]

I think hes made poor depth moves and really cant see him ever being a good GM. But most of the reasons they suck is that Landeskog, Mackinnon continue to decline and noone has really stepped up. Its not on him thats happening. Hes also made zero good moves to get D

 

[CrypTic]

What an ignorant thing to say. From your perspective and some online rags, yes. But a good GM makes trades like these because he knows more about the players than you do.

Ragging on him for trades that have worked out because they 'seemed' like poor value trades at the time is just the pushing of a ridiculous agenda. It's intellectually dishonest.

How is it intellectually dishonest? I think it's much fairer to evaluate trades (and other decisions) based on the information (including risks) known at the time of the decision, not on hindsight. But I don't think it's intellectually dishonest to evaluate either way as long as one is consistent. What is intellectually dishonest is using a mixture of hindsight and "time of decision" knowledge to paint a distorted picture, e.g., looking at trades that were ok at the time but turned out badly in hindsight to blame someone then also blaming them for trades based on the trade looking bad at the time it was made (or vice versa to make someone look good).

 

[scrubadam]

Sakic has destroyed one of the leagues most promising teams that was looking to be set to be a top team in the West.

Dropping both Statsney and ROR was a mistake regardless how AVs fans want to spin they had to dump both those guys. Talent trumps picks/prospects/cap space. Being strong down the middle is one thing every NHL team wishes to have.

Basically took a team that was on the upswing oozing with talent and looking like they were set up to a team that will have to go through a couple years of "rebuilding" and finding themselves far behind in the West.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I can't believe the Boedker trade goes into the mixed category. It was absolutely deplorable and furled purely by delusion and ignorance, completely indicative of the ineptitude and incompetence the OP is trying to argue for. It will go down as the signature move and a bow on how they've run the franchise for three years, death by a thousand paper cuts and yet we are here and can't stop the bleeding.

Just IMO, but the biggest piece going to AZ was the compensatory 2nd round DP with Bleachley not getting a contract. COL was in the fight for a playoff spot last year so how is trading a late 2nd round DP that big of a deal. That pick has about a 70% chance of never having an NHL career.

Seems like a lot of 20/20 hindsight in this thread. There have been plenty of bad moves, but not sure how much of that can be put 100% on Sakic.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Too many teams nowadays who want to put their "greatest player" in that executive role, and then can't tell them to get out because it soils the history.

Funny enough this is not a new thing. Montreal did this a lot in the 80s and 90s with disastrous results. Then there was the Gretzky fiasco in the desert. Now we have a new wave of teams doing it.

 

[authentic]

I think hes made poor depth moves and really cant see him ever being a good GM. But most of the reasons they suck is that Landeskog, Mackinnon continue to decline and noone has really stepped up. Its not on him thats happening. Hes also made zero good moves to get D

Lol, MacKinnon is not declining, it's hard to perform with a horrible team in the NHL now. You need your linemates more than ever, the main reason they suck is because half of their team shouldn't be in the NHL. MacKinnon and Duchene are better than their numbers indicate, if we see one of them go to a better team I'm sure their numbers will reflect that.

 

[scrubadam]

Just IMO, but the biggest piece going to AZ was the compensatory 2nd round DP with Bleachley not getting a contract. COL was in the fight for a playoff spot last year so how is trading a late 2nd round DP that big of a deal. That pick has about a 70% chance of never having an NHL career.

Seems like a lot of 20/20 hindsight in this thread. There have been plenty of bad moves, but not sure how much of that can be put 100% on Sakic.

Hes the GM 100% the good and the bad can be placed on him.

Bottom line is AVS should not be finishing at the bottom of the league and having to rebuild with what they had when Sakic started there. This team should be one of the deepest down the middle and have tons of pieces to move.

All the moves he made added up to the AV's being where they are and thats on the GM.

 

[Shakey Rustie]

Why doesn't Sakic travel with the team? Does he work on a part-time basis or with a reduced schedule?

 

[marioni]

There have been plenty of bad moves, but not sure how much of that can be put 100% on Sakic.

As an Avs fan, I'd say all of it. That's his job, literally.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

How is it intellectually dishonest? I think it's much fairer to evaluate trades (and other decisions) based on the information (including risks) known at the time of the decision, not on hindsight. But I don't think it's intellectually dishonest to evaluate either way as long as one is consistent. What is intellectually dishonest is using a mixture of hindsight and "time of decision" knowledge to paint a distorted picture, e.g., looking at trades that were ok at the time but turned out badly in hindsight to blame someone then also blaming them for trades based on the trade looking bad at the time it was made (or vice versa to make someone look good).

Agree on evaluating on the information available at the time of the decision. The problem is that we don't know the organization's evaluations of the players at the time of the trade. What we do haven is the public perception, which could be very different!