Proposal: Montreal and Toronto

[Baksfamous112]

While I agree Petry is a good player, let's not pretend he has ever scored 55-60 points. His career high is actually 42 (last year) and his career high before last year was 28.

The guy is 31. He may be on pace for 50+ this year, but he has never hit it

You’re right but even if he just turned 31, he hasn’t lost a step and I’d even say he’s still progression. This year he’s doing it all from passing, scoring, hitting and defending. He’s having a monster of a year.

He’s on pace for 60, but I said ~50 because he might slow down a little bit. He passes the eye test AND having monster analytic with high competition and poor teammates.

Personally, I prefer to keep him and have hin on our blueline. He’s too valuable to us and we don’t have enough good D to trade him away.

 

[Baksfamous112]

looked better - and younger - than most of those names to me.

He’s under all of them on my list and I’ve watched all games so far. He’s been good but I feel the aformentioned have been better during the WJC.

On a side note, I feel the 3 best D so far in the tournament are Romanov, Brannstrom & Boqvist. What are your thoughts on those?

 

[zeke]

He’s under all of them on my list and I’ve watched all games so far. He’s been good but I feel the aformentioned have been better and as I said, since Sweden got elimited he can’t just himself justice anyway.

On a side note, I feel the 3 best D so far in the tournament are Romanov, Brannstrom & Boqvist. What are your thoughts on those?

tbh I'm not sure Sandin lagged those two Swedes at all.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I like Petry a lot but you have to look at it if you're a Habs fan from our perspective. Would you trade a 22 year old on pace for 30 goals for Petry? Add on top a prospect that's trending upwards and has looked good as a teenager in the AHL? That's asking quite a bit. The more realistic scenario is Petry for picks, similar to Hamilton and Hamonic. I know some dont wanna hear it but I wouldn't trade Kapanen for Petry straight up.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Funny thing, Kapanen stopped producing points when he went back with Kadri. So no, he is not a future Elite player like you think. He is a comparable to a younger Byron. THe big piece here is Sandin who can become a top pairing.

he is getting carried by top centers, he uses he's speed and nothing else. Also went from a high 18 minutes on average to a low 14 minutes on the 3rd line and stopped producing. Kapanen is nothing to be amazed at

Bull shit. Kapanen has looked great on every line, with no PP time and is great on the PK. You're nuts if you think Sandin would be the key piece. Hes a wild card. If you think Kapanen is speed only I suggest you watch more leafs games because you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Scintillating10]

Yes, 2 rivals trading, Yes petry is involve, no clue how both party will react to this, Yes it's kinda a bad timing to do this proposal with Nylander Struggling but he's clearly going to pick it up. Please fully read before posting, Please no salty answers, constructive post only

Petry (15% retained) 4.675M for this current season + 2 extra year

for

Sandin + Kapanen


Reasoning:

Toronto:

it's no secret, Toronto's Offense is hella stacked, Nylander just signed a 7M long term contract, Marner and Matthews are due to big raises, Kapanen is also looking for a contract next season, while it might be a bridge the 3.5M-ish+ might be problematic when it will be time to add Defense! Gardiner is likely leaving this offseason and toronto is in good shape for years to come on the Left side with Reilly and Dermott who will take bigger responsability next year! hence why i think Sandin could be expendable! Petry has been playing amazing hockey in the past 2 years, despite being 31, he's shown no sign of regress and would fit Toronto like a glove for the next 2 years in a half (3 playoffs) wich are High contend window.


Montreal:

Montreal is in no shape to contend, our division is currently too young and strong, Weber is likely stuck here and will be mentoring young guns for the years to come wich will prevent kids like Juulsen, Brook, Fleury to flourish and etasblished themself as NHLers. Montreal gets a good LHD prospect wich is a big need and a fast RW that can shoot the puck and follow Drouin and Domi!


Conclusion:

In my humble opinion, i think it's a solid trade for both side, Montreal gets a prospect in a position of need that can go directly to laval and add a young middle six RW. The point of the NHL is to win a Stanley cup and Toronto is right there, they have a solid window and despite losing Kapanen's offensive wich is currently on the 3rd line, Petry comes, brings PMD and stabilize their Defense wich will create more offensive in the end.

I would pass from Montreal. Why make a potential playoff opponent stronger?

 

[voyageur]

I would pass from Montreal. Why make a potential playoff opponent stronger?

This trade makes no sense. They could meet in the 1st Rd.

 

[sansabri]

I like Petry a lot but you have to look at it if you're a Habs fan from our perspective. Would you trade a 22 year old on pace for 30 goals for Petry? Add on top a prospect that's trending upwards and has looked good as a teenager in the AHL? That's asking quite a bit. The more realistic scenario is Petry for picks, similar to Hamilton and Hamonic. I know some dont wanna hear it but I wouldn't trade Kapanen for Petry straight up.

Nothing realistic about this. Habs are competing and Petry is one of the reasons why.

I don't mind hearing that you wouldn't trade Kapanen for Petry, because it doesn't help us at all.

 

[ER89]

Take this behind the barn and shoot it, burn it, freeze its ashes and then bury it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Petry and Tanev are now interchangeable on these forums...Not surprisingly, the answer is still the same for both which will be helpful when filtering for quality trade discussions.

Petry is a far superior player than Tanav
Teams would certainly include their first in a deal for Petry.

 

[TS Quint]

How has Kapenen done with Matthews Vs without?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Keep in mind that we're two years removed from finishing dead last, the "haven't won a playoff round" criticism is lazy, the team was ahead of schedule getting back to the playoffs and hasn't been in a series that we were supposed to win yet (by a stroke of bad luck in the Boston match up, being that all the best teams in the conference were in one division).

The 8-12 year compete window shouldn't be thought of as something dynastic either, it's really the standard for teams built this way. And don't get me wrong, not all of those years will be as a favorite, but most should be with us in the mix

Ya, I still think we should put a lid on how great we are going to be and the dynasty talk until we've actually won a playoff round though. Speak softly and walk with a big stick. That's the real point here no matter how people try to deflect this into something else.

I don't care why we haven't won a playoff round yet. The point is we haven't and we are getting ahead of ourselves with this talk.

I was referring to Chicago & Pittsburgh's accomplishments as a dynasty in the cap era. Their accomplishments don't compare to PRE-Cap dynasties, but they are the best that we have on record since the Cap was introduced. Its a relative thing.

I sure hope our accomplishments are much more than "being in the mix". There's probably a dozen or so teams in the mix each year. And numerous teams have managed that feat over a multi-year window. While that is a decent or good accomplishment, its nothing outstanding for sure.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Ya, I still think we should put a lid on how great we are going to be and the dynasty talk until we've actually won a playoff round though. Speak softly and walk with a big stick. That's the real point here no matter how people try to deflect this into something else.

I don't care why we haven't won a playoff round yet. The point is we haven't and we are getting ahead of ourselves with this talk.

I was referring to Chicago & Pittsburgh's accomplishments as a dynasty in the cap era. Their accomplishments don't compare to PRE-Cap dynasties, but they are the best that we have on record since the Cap was introduced. Its a relative thing.

I sure hope our accomplishments are much more than "being in the mix". There's probably a dozen or so teams in the mix each year. And numerous teams have managed that feat over a multi-year window. While that is a decent or good accomplishment, its nothing outstanding for sure.

Oh for sure, I wouldn't use the word "dynasty" until there's multiple cups in a short period. I do think things would have to seriously derail from where they are now for us to not be a top 10 team for a while, and when I say "compete" or "contend" that's what I mean - getting our hat in the ring in a position that we're not expected to just be blown out of the water in the first round. If we do that enough, fortune will smile on us eventually. I also think that too much gets made of the idea of being in the position that Tampa is in as the lead dog, it's very rare that the presidents trophy team wins the cup, we just need to keep putting ourselves in good position, being "in the mix" for a long period of time usually leads to cups

I think the "win a playoff round" criticism gets way overused by those who want to project some sort of curse on to the Leafs....we got into two playoffs, at least one ahead of schedule, and nearly beat two teams that we weren't supposed to. We have to win some rounds from here, but to this point there's nothing but objective success in the last few years

I agree on the pre-cap era, there was nothing to force contention windows to be cyclical, you could just buy replacement stars when yours got too old. Plus the drafting ideology was very inefficient and you could get stars later in the draft if you were savvy, that's harder to do now at least with centers

How has Kapenen done with Matthews Vs without?

Still noticeable on every shift, he's not as slick or efficient with his opportunities as Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander but he creates a lot of volume of them with his legs and every so often pulls off something impressive.

Matthews probably isn't an ideal linemate for Kapanen, they're both similar "shoot first" mentality players who like to get into the home plate area, both seem to benefit from a Nylander/Marner style guy to set them up. Playing with Kadri and Marleau is probably also not ideal as those three are all shoot-first types

 

[4thline]

I sure hope our accomplishments are much more than "being in the mix". There's probably a dozen or so teams in the mix each year. And numerous teams have managed that feat over a multi-year window. While that is a decent or good accomplishment, its nothing outstanding for sure.

And yet, all Randy was saying (to which he got a super insightful "Lol") was that we have the pieces in place to have a window of contention of 5+ years. Some will be better, some will be worse, we might even win.

You introduced "dynasty", all Randy was doing was shutting down some joker that's convinced themselves this year is the Leafs only chance.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Oh for sure, I wouldn't use the word "dynasty" until there's multiple cups in a short period. I do think things would have to seriously derail from where they are now for us to not be a top 10 team for a while, and when I say "compete" or "contend" that's what I mean - getting our hat in the ring in a position that we're not expected to just be blown out of the water in the first round. If we do that enough, fortune will smile on us eventually. I also think that too much gets made of the idea of being in the position that Tampa is in as the lead dog, it's very rare that the presidents trophy team wins the cup, we just need to keep putting ourselves in good position, being "in the mix" for a long period of time usually leads to cups

I think the "win a playoff round" criticism gets way overused by those who want to project some sort of curse on to the Leafs....we got into two playoffs, at least one ahead of schedule, and nearly beat two teams that we weren't supposed to. We have to win some rounds from here, but to this point there's nothing but objective success in the last few years

I agree on the pre-cap era, there was nothing to force contention windows to be cyclical, you could just buy replacement stars when yours got too old. Plus the drafting ideology was very inefficient and you could get stars later in the draft if you were savvy, that's harder to do now at least with centers

Ya, I think we should be good for awhile, in the mix as you say. We have the ingredients.

Just think we should modify our tone and bring down the volume. Talk softly and walk with a big stick. Even if we have the ingredients, lets make the cake first before we brag about how good our cake is.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

And yet, all Randy was saying (to which he got a super insightful "Lol") was that we have the pieces in place to have a window of contention of 5+ years. Some will be better, some will be worse, we might even win.

You introduced "dynasty", all Randy was doing was shutting down some joker that's convinced themselves this year is the Leafs only chance.

I agree. I introduced the idea of dynasty into the conversation. Randy is a good poster - thoughtful and balanced. He and I have had several good exchanges in the past.

As a separate yet somewhat related point, I added the idea of waiting a bit before "we " (collectively, not aimed at an individual) talk so proudly about our accomplishments. I know that Randy wasn't talking about a dynasty. I also subsequently introduced the idea that I hope we will be a lot better than being in the mix for a number of years. A lot of teams accomplish that.

My posts can contain lots of nuance as well. Might surprise some I guess.

 

[TML1967]

Nope.
I would rather look for a first (top 15-20) + top prospect from a team not the leafs. There is no point in making them exponentially stronger.
We should just keep. Did you see how easily he flew by Seguin on that 3on3 OT beauty? Yup, hes showing no signs of slowing down.

I get this perspective, but its not one I agree with.
Personally, I dont see the Leafs winning this or next year. Too many good teams with more experience, or a better combo of F/D (Tampa, Nashville, Boston). So ive taken the position, I want them all to add massively.
I want tampa to get Panarin, Nashville to get Stone, Boston to get Duchene.
Mostly, I want all their young prospects and top picks GONE.

IMO, in the long run, Panarin wont help Tampa defeat us when we are at our peak in 2 or 3 years as much as a top pick and prospect on cheap contracts will.

 

[Just Linda]

He’s under all of them on my list and I’ve watched all games so far. He’s been good but I feel the aformentioned have been better during the WJC.

On a side note, I feel the 3 best D so far in the tournament are Romanov, Brannstrom & Boqvist. What are your thoughts on those?

Brannstrom has been amazing. I haven't been a fan Boqvist but he hasn't been bad, I'd have him closer to top 6-7 than top 3. I excuse myself from judging Romanov since my opinion is biased on him. I'd say Hughes should be top 3, I know most people.disagree with me since he doesn't have finish this tournament and he's done a lot of sloppy crap but he's shown a lot of skill and breakout speed that's been awesome.

Agree though, Sandin hasn't stood out on any of the 3 swede games I watched or at least not more than other d have. That being said, Sweden got wrecked with illness so I don't put too much stock in anyone on their team being mundane

 

[Blind Mind]

Yes, 2 rivals trading, Yes petry is involve, no clue how both party will react to this, Yes it's kinda a bad timing to do this proposal with Nylander Struggling but he's clearly going to pick it up. Please fully read before posting, Please no salty answers, constructive post only

Petry (15% retained) 4.675M for this current season + 2 extra year

for

Sandin + Kapanen


Reasoning:

Toronto:

it's no secret, Toronto's Offense is hella stacked, Nylander just signed a 7M long term contract, Marner and Matthews are due to big raises, Kapanen is also looking for a contract next season, while it might be a bridge the 3.5M-ish+ might be problematic when it will be time to add Defense! Gardiner is likely leaving this offseason and toronto is in good shape for years to come on the Left side with Reilly and Dermott who will take bigger responsability next year! hence why i think Sandin could be expendable! Petry has been playing amazing hockey in the past 2 years, despite being 31, he's shown no sign of regress and would fit Toronto like a glove for the next 2 years in a half (3 playoffs) wich are High contend window.


Montreal:

Montreal is in no shape to contend, our division is currently too young and strong, Weber is likely stuck here and will be mentoring young guns for the years to come wich will prevent kids like Juulsen, Brook, Fleury to flourish and etasblished themself as NHLers. Montreal gets a good LHD prospect wich is a big need and a fast RW that can shoot the puck and follow Drouin and Domi!


Conclusion:

In my humble opinion, i think it's a solid trade for both side, Montreal gets a prospect in a position of need that can go directly to laval and add a young middle six RW. The point of the NHL is to win a Stanley cup and Toronto is right there, they have a solid window and despite losing Kapanen's offensive wich is currently on the 3rd line, Petry comes, brings PMD and stabilize their Defense wich will create more offensive in the end.

Petry is too important to us right now. He’s on his way to have the best year of his career, and if he keeps the pace in future seasons, his contract will be looked at as excellent.

As of Sandin and our LHD problem, I think we should wait for Romanov to show what he’s capable of next year before making any drastic moves. I mean, he’s probably one of the best Dman at the WJC this year.

Kapanen is definitely interesting, but I think Toronto values him way too much right now for us to get a hand on him (especially in a trade for Petry, in which they also add Sandin).

In conclusion, it’s well thought out, but I think both sides say know.