MLB reinstates Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson, rules permanent ineligibility ends at death

[MMC]

 

[DoyleG]

Pete won't get in, given how he ducked his culpability for so long. Not to mention, he might've been a regular user of corked bats during his career.

Shoeless Joe would be on the fence, mainly given that his role in the Black Sox scandal isn't that clear-cut.

 

[Killer Orca]

Honestly, both should be in considering their on-field accomplishments. To think everyone else in HOF was an outstanding citizen is preposterous.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Honestly, both should be in considering their on-field accomplishments. To think everyone else in HOF was an outstanding citizen is preposterous.

Bogus. Rose was scum off and on the field. Dude was gambling on games he participated in as manager.

Anybody who damaged the integrity/legitimacy of the game should be perma'd.

I also i don't want to hear "oh but i bet you're fine with the steroid era guys" because that's not even remotely the same.

 

[Killer Orca]

Bogus. Rose was scum off and on the field. Dude was gambling on games he participated in as manager.

Anybody who damaged the integrity/legitimacy of the game should be perma'd.

I also i don't want to hear "oh but i bet you're fine with the steroid era guys" because that's not even remotely the same.

That's your opinion and I can respect that however mine is guys like Ohtani are no different and he's getting a pass.

 

[Blitzkrug]

That's your opinion and I can respect that however mine is guys like Ohtani are no different and he's getting a pass.

The same Ohtani who has no evidence connecting him to his degenerate former interpreter's gambling?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Don't like it. Jackson was an ancillary part of a plot that threw a World Series (don't give me crap about him batting well, he still sold out his teammates not in on the fix by letting it continue, or downplaying his culpability just because he was an idiot), and Rose is such a pathological liar that I don't remotely believe his claims that a) he never bet against his team, or b) didn't let those bets alter how he managed his team in any capacity.

Just gutless move to make them eligible.

 

[The Burdened]

You cant tell the story of baseball without them. They should be in, but their story should be told along with it.

 

[Killer Orca]

The same Ohtani who has no evidence connecting him to his degenerate former interpreter's gambling?

Yes, the one who didn't notice 4.5 million missing from his account. I'm sure he doesn't check his accounts daily, but he must have accountants or a money manager who would have noticed that. Seems quite fishy to me. However don't want to make this about Ohtani. Getting back to Rose he'd get my vote and Jackson I'll be honest don't know much about him besides the scandal. His on field merits deserve the HOF though reading about him.

Edit, never really thought about this but why did the interpreter even have access to transfer those amounts? Just seems very odd to me.

 

[Unholy Diver]

Don't like it. Jackson was an ancillary part of a plot that threw a World Series (don't give me crap about him batting well, he still sold out his teammates not in on the fix by letting it continue, or downplaying his culpability just because he was an idiot), and Rose is such a pathological liar that I don't remotely believe his claims that a) he never bet against his team, or b) didn't let those bets alter how he managed his team in any capacity.

Just gutless move to make them eligible.

Probably a preemptive attempt at goodwill before the incoming work stoppage

As for the subject, I'm with you, they deserved the banishment

 

[Blitzkrug]

You cant tell the story of baseball without them. They should be in, but their story should be told along with it.

I'd argue Barry Bonds is a much more important part of baseball's story and between the wife-beating, dickishness to the media and steroid abuse nobody seems to want to put him in either.

And yet, in the context of the game what Bonds did is way, way less damaging compared to betting on games.

Yes, the one who didn't notice 4.5 million missing from his account. I'm sure he doesn't check his accounts daily, but he must have accountants or a money manager who would have noticed that. Seems quite fishy to me. However don't want to make this about Ohtani. Getting back to Rose he'd get my vote and Jackson I'll be honest don't know much about him besides the scandal. His on field merits deserve the HOF though reading about him.

Edit, never really thought about this but why did the interpreter even have access to transfer those amounts? Just seems very odd to me.

Shohei trusted his interpreter like he was family going back to way before he became a big name. He managed everything from his money to his branding iirc.

But if you want to imply Shohei set his buddy up for a fall that ended in a jail sentence while outsmarting numerous investigators/investigative bodies then sure, go ahead.

 

[The Burdened]

I'd argue Barry Bonds is a much more important part of baseball's story and between the wife-beating, dickishness to the media and steroid abuse nobody seems to want to put him in either.

I never said Bonds shouldn't be in. he should be. All of the legendary figures of the game who are gatekept out because they are meanie dickheads should be in the HOF and all and their stories should be told as a part of it, warts and all.

You can't tell the story of baseball without them. Not every chapter is a fairytale, but HOF stories ought to be told instead of ignored.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Probably a preemptive attempt at goodwill before the incoming work stoppage

As for the subject, I'm with you, they deserved the banishment

I think it's more a move on their part to not be too harsh against gambling given that they are financially reliant on that degeneracy, tbqh.

 

[Cas]

Well, I can pretty much feel the last vestiges of interest I still had in professional baseball slipping away.

You cant tell the story of baseball without them. They should be in, but their story should be told along with it.

The Hall of Fame has plenty of information displayed about both. They just don't have plaques, which is fine, the plaque room is boring.

Jackson was guilty as sin, and Rose was a monster.

 

[The Burdened]

Well, I can pretty much feel the last vestiges of interest I still had in professional baseball slipping away.


The Hall of Fame has plenty of information displayed about both. They just don't have plaques, which is fine, the plaque room is boring.

Jackson was guilty as sin, and Rose was a monster.

Adolf Hitler was a monster. I wouldn't cheapen the word monster.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Adolf Hitler was a monster. I wouldn't cheapen the word monster.

Holy strawman.

 

[kingsholygrail]

You cant tell the story of baseball without them. They should be in, but their story should be told along with it.

This is how I see it too.

 

[Memento]

Well, I can pretty much feel the last vestiges of interest I still had in professional baseball slipping away.


The Hall of Fame has plenty of information displayed about both. They just don't have plaques, which is fine, the plaque room is boring.

Jackson was guilty as sin, and Rose was a monster.

Was there any proof with Jackson aside from a he-said from one of them who was trying to lessen their sentence? Any at all? When he hit .375, a home run (in a time where homers were rare) and made no errors in the series? Since when is that throwing the game? Don't you think he wouldn't have gotten paid if he had played well, since the first HBP in the first game was proof to the gamblers that the fix was on?

I do not believe Jackson is guilty at all, and I believe he should have been allowed in the Hall a very long time ago.

I do not agree with Rose and any of the other Black Sox being reinstated. Rose made a mockery of the game, gambling on his games as a player and a manager, and he was unrepentant to the very end. The other Black Sox had their actions speak for themselves.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Here is the thing. I think Jackson goes in first

 

[Jumptheshark]

Well, I can pretty much feel the last vestiges of interest I still had in professional baseball slipping away.


The Hall of Fame has plenty of information displayed about both. They just don't have plaques, which is fine, the plaque room is boring.

Jackson was guilty as sin, and Rose was a monster.

Have you looked at Jackson's stats for those games? History has convicted him while when looking at it from historical point of view? More questions than answers. Jackson never saw a dime other players did. He had a couple of bad games but his stats were pretty good unless you call a BA of .375, OBP .394 slugging .564

 

[Son of Nogatco]

That's your opinion and I can respect that however mine is guys like Ohtani are no different and he's getting a pass.

There was overwhelming evidence that Pete Rose bet on his own games, and was heavily in debt to the guys he was placing bets with. That is clearly not the case with Shohei Ohtani.

I'm not gonna argue that your suspicions are completely unfounded, but to equate one with the other is intellectually dishonest and potentially libelous

Yes, the one who didn't notice 4.5 million missing from his account. I'm sure he doesn't check his accounts daily, but he must have accountants or a money manager who would have noticed that. Seems quite fishy to me. However don't want to make this about Ohtani.

Edit, never really thought about this but why did the interpreter even have access to transfer those amounts? Just seems very odd to me.

Maybe next time do your research first and declare people guilty afterwards

 

[eojsmada]

I think it's more a move on their part to not be too harsh against gambling given that they are financially reliant on that degeneracy, tbqh.

This is probably the most realistic argument. It also just makes sense. There are so few cases of guys who are legit HOF'ers who were banned, that it makes no sense to keep the restriction past death.

 

[Son of Nogatco]

Was there any proof with Jackson aside from a he-said from one of them who was trying to lessen their sentence? Any at all? When he hit .375, a home run (in a time where homers were rare) and made no errors in the series? Since when is that throwing the game? Don't you think he wouldn't have gotten paid if he had played well, since the first HBP in the first game was proof to the gamblers that the fix was on?

I do not believe Jackson is guilty at all, and I believe he should have been allowed in the Hall a very long time ago.

I do not agree with Rose and any of the other Black Sox being reinstated. Rose made a mockery of the game, gambling on his games as a player and a manager, and he was unrepentant to the very end. The other Black Sox had their actions speak for themselves.

Wasn't Jackson banned as an accessory because he knew about the fix but declined to inform on the other players? IIRC there was substantial proof he was aware of what was happening

 

[Son of Nogatco]

Source: Ineligible list ends at death for MLB bans

Major League Baseball has no hold on banned players after they die, a source told ESPN, which could be significant when it comes to Hall of Fame consideration for "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and others who were banned for life and have since died.

www.espn.com

Interesting timing considering the league apparently changed its policy as recently as 5 years ago.

 

[Mrfenn92]