Mitch Marner Vs. Kapanen, Connor Brown, Kadri

[Canada is best bro]

You could remove kadri and I’d still take Brown and Kapanen.

 

[jonlin]

I take the gamble that the elite player will overcome his mental gap and succeed in the playoffs. He has the talent and determination to do it. Datsyuk was also considered a playoff choker his first few years.

Kadri is a good player but you have no value when you're not playing.

Brown is decent but in the spirit of this thread he has scored 1 goal in 20 playoff games with the leafs

Kapanen is a spare part

Put it into perspective:

Kapanen the spare part 3,2M - 40GP 11G 19A 30p +15. Thats 60+p in a normal season

Kadri 4,5M - the guy you actually like - 56gp 11g 21a 32p and -7 on a contender

Brown 3,6M - 56GP 21G 14A 35P and +1 on Ottawa, a bottom feeder

Thats a full 2nd line right there against a winger, who is overpaid by 2M. I rather have a full 2nd line than 1 overpaid 1st line wing. Especially against a wing that dont do squat in playoffs.

 

[Atomos2]

You could remove kadri and I’d still take Brown and Kapanen.

You could remove Kapanen too.

 

[Canada is best bro]

You could remove Kapanen too.

True, but I’d get reported, drawn and quartered real quick if I said that.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Yeah, people don't want an 100pt player...get over yourselves

truth hurts

 

[HarryLime]

Marner is utterly useless in the playoffs. The amount of situations he's thrust into based on his regular seasons and his role on the team is what cost Toronto back to back playoff series. Not even taking into account his salary. If you factor in his salary and usage numbers he is easily the worst Maple Leaf I've seen. Can't believe this is even close. Dude is trash but fools people because of his abilities with extra space and odd man rushes. Yes, it will generate you points in the season and it will actually cost your team because he is paid for his season production. In the playoffs he is useless. SO many Leafs fans said he was the next Kane. LMAO he isn't Patrick Kane. He doesn't have that high IQ ability to see what the defense is doing and go off script. Marner is more similar to Johnny Gaudreau. I would trade Marner right now for a ton of guys who are getting 3-5 million but give you something for the playoffs. Maybe if he had a shot like Nylander I could see the value. Toronto should have moved off him last season. Garbage player, even worse brat behind the lenses.

 

[bov]

Marner, not even remotely close.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Yeah, people don't want an 100pt player...get over yourselves

Marner has never been a 100 point player. You can say he came close, but you cannot say he scored 100 points.

 

[Sky04]

All 3 over John Tavares considering it's much more stupid to sign a 28 year old UFA to 7 years as a young team team.

 

[Sky04]

Are they really elite talent if they are completely invisible during the playoffs?

Marner is paid like an elite talent, I'm not so sure he actually is elite though.

That's stupid, top-5 scorers aren't elite? McDavid not elite in your eyes too?

 

[Sky04]

Not understanding the notion that you win with elite talent in the NHL. You win with a large conglomeration of good players and a few elite ones. Not 4 elite ones and then a bunch of bozos. Toronto's problem is they don't have enough good players and they never will because they paid the elite ones too much.

Boston and Colorado and Tampa are probably the three best teams left and their elite players make nothing compared to Torontos players and that is why. Not because Marner isn't good enough. Its because other teams can key in on the elite players a lot easier because the rest of the lineup isn't good enough.


The whole is way more important than a player or two.

No... I'm pretty sure Toronto's secondary scoring lit up Montreal that series. Your top guys just didn't show up, like at all.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

That's stupid, top-5 scorers aren't elite? McDavid not elite in your eyes too?

Do you not understand the difference between Connor McDavid and Mitch Marner?

 

[Yackiberg8]

If all of the offensive talent in the league had been spread out equally between all 31 teams, these would have been the PPG stats for the 16th (average) offense (min. 50% GP):

Rank	PPG	Tor	Player
16	1.06	1.27	Matthews
47	0.86	1.22	Marner
78	0.72	0.89	Tavares
109	0.61	0.82	Nylander
140	0.55	0.77	Hyman
171	0.47	0.56	Spezza
202	0.42	0.45	Thornton
233	0.38	0.41	Kerfoot
264	0.33	0.41	Foligno
295	0.29	0.31	Mikeyev
326	0.25	0.29	Engvall
357	0.20	0.24	Simmonds

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

109	0.61	0.75	Kapanen
140	0.55	0.63	C.Brown
171	0.47	0.57	Kadri

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Kapanen - Kadri - C. Brown would have been an above average offensive, 2nd line. They could have been the 2nd line for a playoff team.

I’m not following. You’re saying the Leafs were the 16th best offence (average), and then somehow think Kapanen-Kadri-Brown would have been better than the Leafs second line?

 

[sparxx87]

Yes, take the bigger sample over the smaller sample. Playoffs matters, but not enough that an elite player is not elite because he's had a few bad playoff rounds.

Playoffs are a different game, though. Become very matchup heavy with less time and space. Many of his strengths are neutralized in these situations and he isn’t a guy whose going to drive the net or get to the dirty areas to make things happen.

Marner isn’t built for a tight checking and physical style which the playoffs always are.

...and it’s important to note that he was seeing a lot of 2nd and 3rd pairs on a deep team with JVR and Bozak under Babcock... now, on the top line, making top dollar, he doesn’t get many favourable matchups. Two straight years of this, and two straight years of incredibly underwhelming performances.

 

[trentmccleary]

I’m not following. You’re saying the Leafs were the 16th best offence (average), and then somehow think Kapanen-Kadri-Brown would have been better than the Leafs second line?

No, the 2nd column is what a hypothetical average offensive team would look like if offensive talent (measured by PPG) were spread evenly across all 31 teams.
The median best forward finished 16th among 31 teams, so they would be the median best forward in a hypothetical league where talent is distributed evenly.

The reason for doing this is because people routinely get caught up in silly arguments about whether somebody is or isn't a 2nd liner, while subconsciously trying to assess all of the lines on 31 teams (which nobody is capable of processing).

This allows us to ground our opinions in some sort of objective reality and present it in a digestible format. Kadri, Brown and Kapanen all produced slightly above this season's 2nd line benchmarks. Therefore, it's likely that they could have been a 2nd line on a playoff team.

16	1A	1.06
47	1B	0.86
78	1C	0.72
109	2A	0.61
140	2B	0.55
171	2C	0.47
202	3A	0.42
233	3B	0.38
264	3C	0.33
295	4A	0.29
326	4B	0.25
357	4C	0.20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]