Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[francis246]

Spoiler alert: the Hart is not won in November. Perhaps we should wait a few more months? Mac, Ranta, Kaprizov, Necas, Kutcherov are ahead of Marner and Draisaitl and McDavid are starting to heat up.

The hart doesn’t necessarily go to the person who has the most points. It’s awarded to the person the league feels is most valuable to his team. Marner could definitely fall in that category. Especially if the leafs win the division.

 

[ACC1224]

The hart doesn’t necessarily go to the person who has the most points. It’s awarded to the person the league feels is most valuable to his team. Marner could definitely fall in that category. Especially if the leafs win the division.

What was the stat they showed last night when they mentioned he was in early season contention?
Virtually tied with Kaprizov and just ahead of McDavid?

 

[Dekes For Days]

What was the stat they showed last night when they mentioned he was in early season contention?
Virtually tied with Kaprizov and just ahead of McDavid?

I believe it was the percentage of team goals that a player has gotten a point on.

 

[ToneDog]

All he's saying is media are already floating his name.

True because he has one of the largest percentage of points vs overall team has points. He's been good but even if you are voting for the Hart today, he is not in my top 5. Mac, Ranta, Kaprizov, Necas, and Kutch are more worthy IMO. Some have also mentioned Eichel but he like Mitch does not have enough goal/points to be in the conversation with those 5. Again, my opinion.

The hart doesn’t necessarily go to the person who has the most points. It’s awarded to the person the league feels is most valuable to his team. Marner could definitely fall in that category. Especially if the leafs win the division.

Agreed but IMO there are 5 more worthy players and that does not include McDavid, Draisaitl (20 goals), Eichel and Reinhart (19 goals, top 10 in points).

 

[ACC1224]

I believe it was the percentage of team goals that a player has gotten a point on.

Thanks, most of his shouldn't count though.
I wonder if they were aware of that when the made the graphic?

 

[francis246]

True because he has one of the largest percentage of points vs overall team has points. He's been good but even if you are voting for the Hart today, he is not in my top 5. Mac, Ranta, Kaprizov, Necas, and Kutch are more worthy IMO. Some have also mentioned Eichel but he like Mitch does not have enough goal/points to be in the conversation with those 5. Again, my opinion.

Agreed but IMO there are 5 more worthy players and that does not include McDavid, Draisaitl (20 goals), Eichel and Reinhart (19 goals, top 10 in points).

You have Eichel ahead of Marner when they have Identical production and Marner has a goal more than Eichel?! lol, if Eichel is good enough to be in the conversation Marner is as well. Their production is literally identical.

I think it comes down to just overall impact on team. I think Reinhart is the favourite you could throw Jesper Bratt in the convo. No Edmonton player is the conversation right now they just haven’t been good enough as a team

 

[ACC1224]

You have Eichel ahead of Marner when they have Identical production and Marner has a goal more than Eichel?! lol, if Eichel is good enough to be in the conversation Marner is as well. Their production is literally identical.

I think it comes down to just overall impact on team. I think Reinhart is the favourite you could throw Jesper Bratt in the convo. No Edmonton player is the conversation right now they just haven’t been good enough as a team

As we see everyday, Team sports aren't for everyone.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

You have Eichel ahead of Marner when they have Identical production and Marner has a goal more than Eichel?! lol, if Eichel is good enough to be in the conversation Marner is as well. Their production is literally identical.

I think it comes down to just overall impact on team. I think Reinhart is the favourite you could throw Jesper Bratt in the convo. No Edmonton player is the conversation right now they just haven’t been good enough as a team

Where does he say he has Eichel ahead of Marner?

 

[ToneDog]

You have Eichel ahead of Marner when they have Identical production and Marner has a goal more than Eichel?! lol, if Eichel is good enough to be in the conversation Marner is as well. Their production is literally identical.

I think it comes down to just overall impact on team. I think Reinhart is the favourite you could throw Jesper Bratt in the convo. No Edmonton player is the conversation right now they just haven’t been good enough as a team

I said, "Some have also mentioned Eichel but he like Mitch does not have enough goal/points to be in the conversation with those 5. Again, my opinion.".

As we see everyday, Team sports aren't for everyone.

As usual nothing to contribute but insults.

Troll me at the end of the season like you troll Mess if Marner is one of the three finalists for the Hart.

 

[Gary Nylund]

All he's saying is media are already floating his name.

Ah yes, the media. Always entertaining, makes you wanna go click on something doesn't it?

 

[Suntouchable13]

I said, "Some have also mentioned Eichel but he like Mitch does not have enough goal/points to be in the conversation with those 5. Again, my opinion.".


As usual nothing to contribute but insults.

Troll me at the end of the season like you troll Mess if Marner is one of the three finalists for the Hart.

I swear, some people defend Marner like they are a part of his entourage. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are related to him in some way.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's a little weird to me that Rantanen is just automatically assumed to be the better player. For one, the whole "has a cup" argument is one of the stupider arguments in this day and age given the team aspect of winning a Cup and how difficult it is to win one nowadays. But for now I'll stick to the statistical comparison's between Rantanen and Marner.

Rantanen has a worse statistical profile than Marner in the regular season. Rantanen's career average ppg is 1.09. Marner's is 1.12. Rantanen scores more, for sure (0.46 compared to Marner's 0.33) but he also doesn't play a second of short-handed time, nor is he the two-way player that Marner is. He certainly brings more offense in the playoffs (1.24 in the playoff compared to regular season, which is the sort of jump you want to see).

But like this idea that it's outrageous that Marner would be consider in the same camp cap wise...is weird. It would not be egregious to see them have a similar cap hit.

Rantanen/Marner having similar cap hits seems reasonable. And that's why people are disappointed in Marner, he's been making about 20% more than Rantanen all these years plus Rantanen's playoff performance makes Marner look like a joke in comparison. All things considered, it feels like the Avs have gotten their money's worth and more whereas many Leaf fans feel like Marner's agent took Dubas to the cleaners.

Whether or not Rantanen is the better player IMO comes down to what you think is more important, regular season or playoffs. I know who I'd rather have on the Leafs but as usual in Leafland, opinions vary.

 

[sunstersun]

It happens every regular season. I've given Marner more credit this season than most regular season because he's shown something without Matthews.

However, in terms of performance in the playoff, Marner and slightly less so Matthews has been the reason our team sucked.

If we put 23 mil on a line, and we get what? Mediocre 5v5 numbers?

No, nothing is settled with Mitch until he turns in a 3 goal 7 assist first round without stacking it in the first 4 games. He should be able to do this without Matthews.

Nylander, I'm not thrilled with this season, but it's hard to blame him with the teammates. + He works well in the playoffs.

 

[BraveCanadian]

We are not doing that again.

You’re on the management team?

 

[Byron Bitz]

You’re on the management team?

If Marner’s camp wants to negotiate as if the cap going up is a guarantee, we can simply say “that’s what you said last time and you were wrong, it ended up being a flat cap throughout most of your contract.”

 

[ToneDog]

It happens every regular season. I've given Marner more credit this season than most regular season because he's shown something without Matthews.

However, in terms of performance in the playoff, Marner and slightly less so Matthews has been the reason our team sucked.

If we put 23 mil on a line, and we get what? Mediocre 5v5 numbers?

No, nothing is settled with Mitch until he turns in a 3 goal 7 assist first round without stacking it in the first 4 games. He should be able to do this without Matthews.

Nylander, I'm not thrilled with this season, but it's hard to blame him with the teammates. + He works well in the playoffs.

That is a 35 goal pace. He's got 10 goals in 57 career playoff games (16 goal pace). So if he fails to get those 3 goals this year in round #1, are you letting him walk?

If Marner’s camp wants to negotiate as if the cap going up is a guarantee, we can simply say “that’s what you said last time and you were wrong, it ended up being a flat cap throughout most of your contract.”

It makes sense they negotiate based on the cap rising next year. What I do not get is why people talk about the cap going over $100m in subsequent years and what that has to do with his next deal. If he wants a piece of that, tell him to GFH.

 

[francis246]

I swear, some people defend Marner like they are a part of his entourage. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are related to him in some way.

Just a childish comment. Pretty on brand for you though.

We are having a conversation. I think it’s redicilous to claim that Eichel or the other 5 he listed is ahead of Marner in the hart race and then dismiss Marner as a candidate when they have similar production. Especially when production is only but a small part of who actually wins the hart. No one is putting Eichel down to prop up Marner. But people continue to put down one of our teams best players to prop up other stars around the league it’s odd.

 

[ACC1224]

If Marner’s camp wants to negotiate as if the cap going up is a guarantee, we can simply say “that’s what you said last time and you were wrong, it ended up being a flat cap throughout most of your contract.”

Unfortunately that's not reality.
Do you think Nylander and Matthews were signed without the expectation of a cap increase?

Just a childish comment. Pretty on brand for you though.

We are having a conversation. I think it’s redicilous to claim that Eichel is ahead of Marner in the hart race and then dismiss Marner as a candidate when they have similar production. No one is putting Eichel down to prop up Marner. But people continue to put down one of our teams best players to prop up other stars around the league it’s odd.

'Odd' is putting it mildly.
We must be the only team with 'fans' that hate the best players.
Totally bizarre.
You know some must have been seething hearing the broadcast mention Marner and Hart in the same breath.

 

[francis246]

Unfortunately that's not reality.
Do you think Nylander and Matthews were signed without the expectation of a cap increase?


'Odd' is putting it mildly.
We must be the only team with 'fans' that hate the best players.
Totally bizarre.
You know some must have been seething hearing the broadcast mention Marner and Hart in the same breath.

I don’t understand why that would make people mad or upset? It shouldn’t, the hart goes to a player deemed to be the most valuable player to his team during the regular season. Is it that far fetched to say Marner has been one of the most valuable players for our team this year, especially with Mathhews out. So he would fit that criteria. The team has also seen success due to his play offensively and defensively so far this season. As fans of the team we should be like, yeah great he's in the conversation. We don't have to read into it deeply. Why people have to try and shit on that comment is beyond wild to me. Should we not want our players to be in that conversation?

That has been my whole issue with a subsection in here. Is that no one is allowed to give this guy his flowers? We have to live in a constant state of negativity when it comes to discussing Marner and if you don't then you're a "marner only fan" or "member of his family" or some shit. The same goes the other way, we don't have to pretend to be ultra positive about him and claim he's the best player in the league, but if hes playing well celebrate that. if he's playing like shit, call it out. simple.

 

[GoonieFace]

Marner no doubt should be in the Hart conversation at this point in the season. Will he win it, not a chance, but he deserves mention

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Marner’s camp wants to negotiate as if the cap going up is a guarantee, we can simply say “that’s what you said last time and you were wrong, it ended up being a flat cap throughout most of your contract.”

You can't just abandon basic contract standards for no reason because you wanna.

 

[IPS]

Just for reference the kind of season it takes for a winger to win the Hart.

Patrick Kane '15-'16: 106 points (1st), 46 goals (2nd). For reference the 2nd leading points leader in the NHL that year had 89.

Nikita Kucherov '18-'19: 128 points (1st), 41 goals (T-7th). Second leading points leader was McDavid with 116.

Mitch is having a fantastic year but wingers need to some insane things to capture the Hart trophy.

 

[francis246]

Just for reference the kind of season it takes for a winger to win the Hart.

Patrick Kane '15-'16: 106 points (1st), 46 goals (2nd). For reference the 2nd leading points leader in the NHL that year had 89.

Nikita Kucherov '18-'19: 128 points (1st), 41 goals (T-7th). Second leading points leader was McDavid with 116.

Mitch is having a fantastic year but wingers need to some insane things to capture the Hart trophy.

agreed, I don't think anyone realistically expects him to win. it's just nice we have a leaf in the convo. You could even make an argument if Willy wakes up and goes on a hot streak he could also be in the convo. He's gone cold but Willy has been clutch to start the year as well especially goal scoring wise.

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t understand why that would make people mad or upset? It shouldn’t, the hart goes to a player deemed to be the most valuable player to his team during the regular season. Is it that far fetched to say Marner has been one of the most valuable players for our team this year, especially with Mathhews out. So he would fit that criteria. The team has also seen success due to his play offensively and defensively so far this season. As fans of the team we should be like, yeah great he's in the conversation. We don't have to read into it deeply. Why people have to try and shit on that comment is beyond wild to me. Should we not want our players to be in that conversation?

That has been my whole issue with a subsection in here. Is that no one is allowed to give this guy his flowers? We have to live in a constant state of negativity when it comes to discussing Marner and if you don't then you're a "marner only fan" or "member of his family" or some shit. The same goes the other way, we don't have to pretend to be ultra positive about him and claim he's the best player in the league, but if hes playing well celebrate that. if he's playing like shit, call it out. simple.

If he ends up top 5 in scoring, gets Selke votes and the Leafs win the Conference I would think he would get some consideration.
I don't think anyone would think he'd win but it's certainly odd to be upset at the thought of him being talked about.

 

[666]

I believe it was the percentage of team goals that a player has gotten a point on.

It's gotta be hard watching for the haters when the announcers start talking about Marner for the Hart.