Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Nineteen67]

Especially if they give them both full NMC's again.

It really would he the worst thing that could happen to this team. I'm in the camp they should just let them both walk. Throw the money at a proven winner like Rantanen instead.

It's not change for the sake of change when there's actually good reason to be making it.

It would be the worst thing that could happen if it doesn’t work and they’re not competitive again this year.

 

[DutchHockeyGuy]

I have not contributed to this topic before and some of the discourse is quite special.

My hot take: I would doubt wether resigning Marner at his current salary is a good idea. The rising salary cap should be used to make the team deeper and better, not pay the same guys who have not won anything more money because of 'percentage of the cap'.

 

[Drytoast]

The numbers you guys come up with to try and justify your takes are crazy. Stolarz is a good goalie. But he will never be a 9 million dollar goalie and if he is you let him walk. You have Woll who is 6 years younger and has similar numbers to him.

What’s with everyone thinking every player on the leafs is gonna get 9 million. Someone else said Matthew Knies will get 9 million as well. I love Knies but let’s be honest, he is not sniffing 9 million for another contract at least. He has not scored 40 points in the league, hasn’t even scored 20 in the league and people honestly think he’s going to get 9 million LOL. I’m the biggest leaf homer but he’s not even in the same convo as Boldy or Byfield yet. The leafs will have money to keep their young depth. But they gotta take gambles on young guys. I think they took a good one on Woll next up is Knies.

Woll with his injuries?!

Hell no.

The dude injured himself making a meaningless save in game 6 last year leaving us high and dry for game 7.

No.

 

[OddyOh]

I have not contributed to this topic before and some of the discourse is quite special.

My hot take: I would doubt wether resigning Marner at his current salary is a good idea. The rising salary cap should be used to make the team deeper and better, not pay the same guys who have not won anything more money because of 'percentage of the cap'.

100%

 

[Gabriel426]

You don’t wanna see JT - ROR - Marner reunited?!?

Maybe in Nashville, lol.

 

[francis246]

Woll with his injuries?!

Hell no.

The dude injured himself making a meaningless save in game 6 last year leaving us high and dry for game 7.

No.

They’ve already committed to Woll. They gave him a 3 year extension. I hate to break it to you, but Stolarz at 32/33 is not getting a 9 mill contract. Even if he turns out to be incredible. He’ll be too old. But I do think if Stolarz continues to play well he’ll earn a nice raise.

Whether we resign Marner or not. It’s not going to affect what happens with Stolarz. IMO it will be Jack Campbell all over again. Go chase the money. Most goalies except for the elite of the elite are a product of their system.

I do think the leafs have to be mindful of the cap and think about how they can add depth whether that’s internally or through UFA

 

[thewave]

They’ve already committed to Woll. They gave him a 3 year extension. I hate to break it to you, but Stolarz at 32/33 is not getting a 9 mill contract. Even if he turns out to be incredible. He’ll be too old. But I do think if Stolarz continues to play well he’ll earn a nice raise.

Whether we resign Marner or not. It’s not going to affect what happens with Stolarz. IMO it will be Jack Campbell all over again. Go chase the money. Most goalies except for the elite of the elite are a product of their system.

I do think the leafs have to be mindful of the cap and think about how they can add depth whether that’s internally or through UFA

Everything we have done indicates a press on a 3 year window to win. I think BT knows exactly what the deal is and if I had to guess it's as follows.

OEL Tanev Woll Rielly JT AM are all 3 year plans pretty much. OEL Tanev JT have about 3 good years left. Woll will need a raise after 3. Morgan seems to already be declining a bit so throw him into the 3 year basket. AM is signed short in years. If I am correct Mitch Marner will be signed for 4 years to line this all up.

I think we are looking at a situation where if it fails they can tank quick and reboot under Nylander and AM. I think they are also counting on the CBA allowing for contract buyouts or some other way around the cap situation they created.

This year is 1 of 3. Gotta win

 

[francis246]

Everything we have done indicates a press on a 3 year window to win. I think BT knows exactly what the deal is and if I had to guess it's as follows.

OEL Tanev Woll Rielly JT AM are all 3 year plans pretty much. OEL Tanev JT have about 3 good years left. Woll will need a raise after 3. Morgan seems to already be declining a bit so throw him into the 3 year basket. AM is signed short in years. If I am correct Mitch Marner will be signed for 4 years to line this all up.

I think we are looking at a situation where if it fails they can tank quick and reboot under Nylander and AM. I think they are also counting on the CBA allowing for contract buyouts or some other way around the cap situation they created.

To add on to some of the good things you mentioned. I think the organization really believes in some of the ELC guys and full expects them to grab spots in that 3 year window. I think they feel Minten, Greb and Cowan are NHLers who can provide depth. So we should be okay cap wise. Our d core is pretty much set, maybe you bring in another guy on the right side to shore things up.

3 year window sounds about right. As for Marner I can def see a 4 year deal. But I think Marner pushes for 8. If it goes 8, id like to see the limited NMC in the final 3/4 years just like Pasta’s deal.

 

[thusk]

I have not contributed to this topic before and some of the discourse is quite special.

My hot take: I would doubt wether resigning Marner at his current salary is a good idea. The rising salary cap should be used to make the team deeper and better, not pay the same guys who have not won anything more money because of 'percentage of the cap'.

Its now how its working whatever where you watching... player with long term contract have bigger impact at the beggining and less impact at the end of contract and best player always got more with salary cap raising.

It's exactly why covid 19 hurt so much leafs... Leafs signed their player at % considersting salary cap would still raise over next season but covid 19 broke it and salary cap stay thr same. At the beggining they had high impact on salary cap and still have high impact because they stay the same

Mackinon exactly when he signed at 15,46% of salary cap... resign him today with a 93'5 projected salary cap and he would resign at 14,3M... They are no player agent in he world who's working with salary, they all working with % of salary cap.

Don't be surprise when mcdavid will resign if he resign at 15,5M- 16M

 

[thewave]

Its now how its working whatever where you watching... player with long term contract have bigger impact at the beggining and less impact at the end of contract and best player always got more with salary cap raising.

It's exactly why covid 19 hurt so much leafs... Leafs signed their player at % considersting salary cap would still raise over next season but covid 19 broke it and salary cap stay thr same. At the beggining they had high impact on salary cap and still have high impact because they stay the same

Mackinon exactly when he signed at 15,46% of salary cap... resign him today with a 93'5 projected salary cap and he would resign at 14,3M... They are no player agent in he world who's working with salary, they all working with % of salary cap.

Don't be surprise when mcdavid will resign if he resign at 15,5M- 16M

Marner still isn't worth a dime over Nylanders % which is about 12-12.2m that should be the limit unless he removes the NMC

 

[Zero1]

Unfortunately, they already have a $10M+ winger and cap-wise that's all any team can really afford cap-wise if they plan on icing a championship team.

I wouldn't re-sign Marner or chase Rantanen. Tavares will take a big pay cut, freeing up ballpark $4-$6M on top of Marner's near $11M ($15M+ total). Knies' extension will eat up, say, $6M (just throwing numbers out here), which leaves somewhere around $8M-$10M (completely ignoring the cap increase for now) to get a 3rd line C, round out the bottom 6 with some veteran talent and have some cap space to play with at next year's TDL.

Losing Marner will hurt but the depth the Leafs can add will help immensely (PK specialist on the shopping list, for one). And they'll have enough cap to find a decent middle six RW for Tavares.

Of course this is all fantasy world talk as it's clear MLSE's biggest priority is not "just win" as Pelley tried to sell us, it's re-signing Mitch and secondly Tavares. That is it.

I’m all aboard not signing another $11 mill + forward but we both know this franchise is here to sell jerseys.

If they HAD to sign one I really hope it’s not Marner.

 

[Stephen]

It’s sad that we are overpaying Nylander, now will overpay Marner due to an incompetent organization. The highest valued franchise is run by clowns.

The taxes are a lame excuse. Hellybuck probably left money on the table with Winnipeg.

Whatever Marner signs for, you can’t blame him.

Big picture, the ones to blame for all of this is the NHL. If not for Bettmanomics we’d probably have a $120 million juggernaut team built on a core of homegrown (overpaid) talent but look and feel like hockey’s Los Angeles Dodgers.

The Toronto market pays huge prices, yet our on ice product is capped so there can be 30x, 32x, 34x etc teams in the league, where the best player makes less money than a Toronto Raptors benchwarmer.

 

[Stephen]

I have not contributed to this topic before and some of the discourse is quite special.

My hot take: I would doubt wether resigning Marner at his current salary is a good idea. The rising salary cap should be used to make the team deeper and better, not pay the same guys who have not won anything more money because of 'percentage of the cap'.

Marner wouldn’t be underpaid at this current cap hit on a new deal, but there is the internal dynamic of Willie vs Mitch.

Anson Carter floated out a Marner for Rantanen trade, which has been a video game UFA possibility for ages. If we don’t re-sign Marner, a Rantanen pursuit would be top priority.

 

[Divine]

What about the depth issues you were just complaining about?

I think you missed the point.

The reason we need depth is beause Marner disappears in the playoffs. If we replace him with someone who doesn't, it isn't nearly as important.

 

[thusk]

I think you missed the point.

The reason we need depth is beause Marner disappears in the playoffs. If we replace him with someone who doesn't, it isn't nearly as important.

The complete leafs offence disapear under keefe because his entire system is base on create chance off the rush... so team started to wait in neutral by giving up nothing off the rusb and let leafs beat themself

 

[Maple Leaf]

I’m all aboard not signing another $11 mill + forward but we both know this franchise is here to sell jerseys.

If they HAD to sign one I really hope it’s not Marner.

I would trade money man before the deadline that is how much I love him

 

[Leafsfan74]

They’ve already committed to Woll. They gave him a 3 year extension. I hate to break it to you, but Stolarz at 32/33 is not getting a 9 mill contract. Even if he turns out to be incredible. He’ll be too old. But I do think if Stolarz continues to play well he’ll earn a nice raise.

Whether we resign Marner or not. It’s not going to affect what happens with Stolarz. IMO it will be Jack Campbell all over again. Go chase the money. Most goalies except for the elite of the elite are a product of their system.

I do think the leafs have to be mindful of the cap and think about how they can add depth whether that’s internally or through UFA

I say never say never.

For me the golden grail would be winning the Cup and winning the Conn Smythe. Any player in Toronto who achieves this most rare feat would be paid whatever their asking price is. The Leafs franchise would double their revenue overnight.

Of course, I probably have a better chance of winning the lottery...

 

[Smif]

Marner still isn't worth a dime over Nylanders % which is about 12-12.2m that should be the limit unless he removes the NMC

Definitely disagree. Marner contributes more than Nylander to the outcome of a game. It's close tho but imo it's Marner > Nylander.

 

[ToneDog]

I say never say never.

For me the golden grail would be winning the Cup and winning the Conn Smythe. Any player in Toronto who achieves this most rare feat would be paid whatever their asking price is. The Leafs franchise would double their revenue overnight.

Of course, I probably have a better chance of winning the lottery...

These 3, 8 playoff series losers are all about the money. All 3 have not left a penny on the table so the Leafs can provide them with a better supporting cast. Marner is next up to bat and he has the balls to ask for $13-$14m after embarrassing himself the last 12 playoff games. Of course I have no idea what useless Leafs management has been watching and are ready to make him one of the top 5 paid players in the NHL. Complete joke. It is really a shame the GTA does not have a second team.

 

[Its not your fault]

I didn't say he would or wouldn't get $13M here or elsewhere, and I didn't use it as an "appeal to authority".

With all the comments along the lines of 'anyone would pay him $13M', I thought it interesting to see what 'anyone' says.

So what do you think he's paid?

 

[Craig Button]

Marner still isn't worth a dime over Nylanders % which is about 12-12.2m that should be the limit unless he removes the NMC

To be fair Nylander is $2-3M overpaid

He doesn’t make any of his teammates better.

Couldn’t even drive a 3rd line

 

[thewave]

To be fair Nylander is $2-3M overpaid

He doesn’t make any of his teammates better.

Couldn’t even drive a 3rd line

To be even more fair they both are.

Nylander based on his contract year was a 9.5m player. I don't think Marner was worth 10m at the same time.

 

[arso40]

Definitely disagree. Marner contributes more than Nylander to the outcome of a game. It's close tho but imo it's Marner > Nylander.

Agree but the reason why I’d say I agree with the wave also is cause he was way overpaid on his first deal Nylander over paid on his second deal there shouldn’t be a second over pay

To be fair Nylander is $2-3M overpaid

He doesn’t make any of his teammates better.

Couldn’t even drive a 3rd line

When has he never been able to drive a 3rd line?

 

[DarkKnight]

I've mentioned the cap rising more than anticipated, percentages are real negotiating talking points. That said, in no world would this fan base accept Marner making Matthews money, if this is where negotiations end up, it's a non starter for me. It doesn't make sense money wise and frankly is a death sentence for Marner here with the fan base, nobody wins. Shame on his agent if he doesn't compute this simple reality, that dog won't hunt. There has to be a gap behind Matthews, never works otherwise.

 

[Gallagbi]

The complete leafs offence disapear under keefe because his entire system is base on create chance off the rush...

We were primarily a possession based offensive team under Keefe. That's different than a rush based team