NHL Talk Miscellaneous NHL Discussion CIX: Processing a Tremendous Amount of Insane Information

[Beef Invictus]

AV wanted to dump Ghost and Voracek in any case.
They attached one pick to Ghost, cost less than it cost Fla to dump Stralman.

Weird comparison since Ghost was younger and better.

 

[deadhead]

Weird comparison since Ghost was younger and better.

Ghost was a question mark coming off both knees being scoped.

And rebuilding teams don't care how good a salary dump player is, they care about the picks they get for taking on cap. Unless you can flip the player.

In 2023 TDL, traded to Carolina for 2026 3rd rd pick.
That's worse than what we got for 34 year old Braun at the 2022 TDL (2023 3rd).

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost was a question mark coming off both knees being scoped.

And rebuilding teams don't care how good a salary dump player is, they care about the picks they get for taking on cap. Unless you can flip the player.

In 2023 TDL, traded to Carolina for 2026 3rd rd pick.
That's worse than what we got for 34 year old Braun at the 2022 TDL (2023 3rd).

Only to you, because you had a narrative to push in defense of incompetent people.

I urge you to remember that Carolina is extremely good at swindling teams. Again, weird attempt at defending the Flyers.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

You shouldn’t be able to make that play look ridiculously easy

 

[ybnvs]

Couldn't it be argued Sharp SCF performance against Flyers was more impactful in negative for Flyers?

Sharp in finals vs Flyers

4 goals + 2 assists and a +7

Was one of the Hawks best players in that series

Without Sharp the Hawks are never SC caliber team. Would Flyers have won vs 2010 San Jose Sharks in your opinion?

Sharp was excellent in that series; he was a great player and I don't want to take anything away from him. The Flyers trading him for a 3rd was horrendous, but I'm not in this particular discussion to compare Ghost dumping vs Sharp trade.

But I do not believe Patrick Sharp was the difference between the Hawks dynasty having runs at the cup or merely being a playoff team. That team was pretty well built from top to bottom.

I'm not sure if the Flyers would have had a better chance against the Sharks than Hawks, but, they were on a bit of a cinderella run with those wild come-from-behind series comeback wins. As a betting man, I would have gladly put money on the Sharks though.

 

[GKJ]

We really don't have to pretend that he only does well when sheltered because we have plenty of stats showing he also does well when he's on a top or second pair.

I've said for years that I'd Ghost is on your 3rd pair then you're either a really really good team, or you're really really bad at player evaluation. This remains true

Even if he does, who the f*** cares, they have a coach who clearly can leverage Ghost’s strengths to his team’s advantage instead of being hyperfixated on weakness conforming to arbitrary and archaic philosophies.

 

[Curufinwe]

Happy belated birthday to former Flyer PP QB, Marc Streit!

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/streima01.html

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

You shouldn’t be able to make that play look ridiculously easy

McDavid is and never was fair, just ridiculous, our generations Gretzky.

 

[Curufinwe]

They attached two picks to get rid of Ghost.

And Hagg. Who was traded for a 6th later that season. So three picks, really.

Hagg traded to Panthers by Sabres | NHL.com

Buffalo receives sixth-round pick in 2022 Draft for defenseman

www.nhl.com

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

And Hagg. Who was traded for a 6th later that season. So three picks, really.

Hagg traded to Panthers by Sabres | NHL.com

Buffalo receives sixth-round pick in 2022 Draft for defenseman

www.nhl.com

Don't you just miss Robert Hagg and listening to Jackson compliment him like he does with EJ . If I have to hear one more time about how many blocked shots Ryan Poehling has another time, I just don't know what I might do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Even if he does, who the f*** cares, they have a coach who clearly can leverage Ghost’s strengths to his team’s advantage instead of being hyperfixated on weakness conforming to arbitrary and archaic philosophies.

I again think, for no reason, about all their lusting over Zamula putting on size...and his struggles with mobility since then.

 

[GKJ]

I again think, for no reason, about all their lusting over Zamula putting on size...and his struggles with mobility since then.

Zamula was also a Hextall guy so it’s in no way their fault. None whatsoever.

 

[CutOnDime97]

 

[Curufinwe]

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Flyer forwards with as many or more points than Cutter Gauthier's 12

Konecny 34
Michkov 27
Tippett 16
Couturier 15
Brink 13
Frost 12

Flyer forwards with fewer points than Cutter Gauthier's 12

Farabee 11
Foerster 10
Laughton 10
Hathaway 9
Poehling 8
Cates 6

 

[deadhead]

I again think, for no reason, about all their lusting over Zamula putting on size...and his struggles with mobility since then.

What struggles? He never was a good skater, fluid, agile for his size, but slow.
And he hasn't added that much weight, doesn't have the frame for it.
(Compare to Sanheim, who went from 180 to 220 without slowing down).

His problem has been decision making, with his frame, he's vulnerable to forecheckers (not strong enough to hold his ground, but height makes it easier to force turnovers).
So the key is vision, which he has, and quicker decision making, which he's improved.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What struggles? He never was a good skater, fluid, agile for his size, but slow.
And he hasn't added that much weight, doesn't have the frame for it.
(Compare to Sanheim, who went from 180 to 220 without slowing down).

His problem has been decision making, with his frame, he's vulnerable to forecheckers (not strong enough to hold his ground, but height makes it easier to force turnovers).
So the key is vision, which he has, and quicker decision making, which he's improved.

He's put on something like 20-30 pounds in the offseasons at the Flyers urging the last two years. He's gotten steadily slower and less agile as a result. This is bad development focusing on wrong things, which has sabotaged his actual strengths. Dude was strong at transition defense and over time they've drained his ability to do that because they want him to clear the crease physically, as if it's 1998. Because that's the only defense this team seems to understand. The notion of removing the need to defend is foreign to them.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

He's put on something like 20-30 pounds in the offseasons at the Flyers urging the last two years. He's gotten steadily slower and less agile as a result. This is bad development focusing on wrong things, which has sabotaged his actual strengths. Dude was strong at transition defense and over time they've drained his ability to do that because they want him to clear the crease physically, as if it's 1998. Because that's the only defense this team seems to understand. The notion of removing the need to defend is foreign to them.

well theres only 2 places Dmen need to play to be effective which is along the boards and in front of the net. Thats it thats all Dmen do.

 

[kudymen]

@deadhead

Its nothing short of vomit inducing to read three pages of you rewriting the history and gaslighting everyone just to make your posts look like you argue a valid point. Its straight up embarassing - you are not discussing. You are ignoring history. You are rewriting what was thought or said, just like you always did with this player. You are trolling.

Just wanted you to know that. You might be capable of argumentative discussion, but you are just an embarassment since page 98. And no, the answer is not "wha whaaa you all are just fanboying for him" (and its incoming, as you are so transparent)

 

[FlyerNutter]

*clicks to backread from page 98*

Edit: from a fan standpoint would be have been cool to have had Ghost, and Giroux end their careers in Philly.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

The worst part about the Ghost trade besides the fact they paid to get rid of him is that they've continuously bled assets ever since trying and miserably failing to replace what they already had.

Probably a team that paid an enormous price to dump him and has ranked for years on end at or near the bottom of the league in PP%.

Worst "trade" in franchise history.

I think you're right because they paid to dump a productive player and it set off a disastrous chain of moves. But my heart wants to say it was the G trade just because it ever got to the point where we "had" to trade him.

 

[GKJ]

I love the circles being danced in by suggesting stupidity in Briere trading a 2nd round pick for a PP specialist after having lauded needing to burn a 2nd round pick to dump the guy who was just available as a UFA and is running one of the best teams in the league.

 

[ybnvs]

I think you're right because they paid to dump a productive player and it set off a disastrous chain of moves. But my heart wants to say it was the G trade just because it ever got to the point where we "had" to trade him.

Numerous seasons chasing after a Ghost replacement, numerous assets squandered, many cap dollars spent frivolously. All for being worse off.

A god damn war crime.

 

[deadhead]

Keeping Voracek and Ghost would have made no difference in 2021-22, that was a bad team, Voracek/Atkinson was a wash and a few more PP goals would have only hurt their draft slot.

If they kept Ghost, they would have traded him before the 2022 draft with one year left on his deal, or at the 2023 TDL. So he'd still be gone.

So the proper complaint wasn't that they got rid of Ghost, it's that they wasted a 2nd dumping Ghost and a 1st and 2nd adding Risto and a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for TDA. They should have started to rebuild in the spring of 2022 instead of waiting another year.

But that would have required firing Scott and replacing him with someone who accepted reality.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Holy f***ing gaslight, Batman.

 

[Cody Webster]