Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Obvious Fabertism]

You can use this justification to re-sign every pending UFA ever. How do UFA's ever make it to market?

If they want more money, a different role, different coach, better winning opportunity, don’t like the living situation. Any reason you would leave your current job and seek a new one is something a player hitting UFA likely considers. But if the player wants to stay and the team wants them to stay too, they get it done. The NMCs are not a bad thing IMO, clearly we have players who have bought in and want to be here long term. The Wild do a good job of keeping their players engaged and wanting to play and win with the Wild, that is not something a lot of teams in this league can say.

 

[Wabit]

The thing is, we would have had to replace those roster spots with UFAs or I guess trades using pure futures. We are already expected to have two rookies in the top 9 with Ohgren and Khusnutdinov, relying on anymore would be foolish if you are trying to compete.

Zucc and Foligno contracts are likely to be significantly better values to us than having to outbid 31 other teams on UFAs that may not be fits or interested in a team that just missed the playoffs and still has cap limitations. Both have a skill set that Guerin seems to value highly, if we didn’t re-sign them, we would likely be looking at only worse players for more money in their roles. Just have to hope they each stay healthy for once.

I think it's better to let players go rather than overpay them in term and/or money for players. The closer they are to the bottom of the roster the more replaceable they are. The UFA market is filled with them every offseason, they are cut rate prices on the trade market as other teams try to make their caps work, and there is the prospects pool that can be used to replace them.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If they want more money, a different role, different coach, better winning opportunity, don’t like the living situation. Any reason you would leave your current job and seek a new one is something a player hitting UFA likely considers. But if the player wants to stay and the team wants them to stay too, they get it done. The NMCs are not a bad thing IMO, clearly we have players who have bought in and want to be here long term. The Wild do a good job of keeping their players engaged and wanting to play and win with the Wild, that is not something a lot of teams in this league can say.

Or they just like their houses and don't want to move.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Or they just like their houses and don't want to move.

Or schools! Remember a lot of these players in their mid to late twenties are starting to have kids.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I think it's better to let players go rather than overpay them in term and/or money for players. The closer they are to the bottom of the roster the more replaceable they are. The UFA market is filled with them every offseason, they are cut rate prices on the trade market as other teams try to make their caps work, and there is the prospects pool that can be used to replace them.

Maybe, you would have to actually name them for this year though to convince me. And then you need multiple names, since even if the Wild want them, they would have to want to sign here over every other team. Zucc, a roughly PPG winger that does most of their damage on the PP pretty much equates to Perron and Tarasenko and neither are significantly cheaper than him.

Foligno wears an A (there is a tangible premium those players get in their contracts) and is now our only real physical/facepuncher guy in the forward group, and he does actually contribute to the scoresheet pretty well when he’s healthy. If we hadn’t signed him, we almost assuredly would have had opened the bank up for Reaves to outbid Toronto.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Maybe, you would have to actually name them for this year though to convince me. And then you need multiple names, since even if the Wild want them, they would have to want to sign here over every other team. Zucc, a roughly PPG winger that does most of their damage on the PP pretty much equates to Perron and Tarasenko and neither are significantly cheaper than him.

Foligno wears an A (there is a tangible premium those players get in their contracts) and is now our only real physical/facepuncher guy in the forward group, and he does actually contribute to the scoresheet pretty well when he’s healthy. If we hadn’t signed him, we almost assuredly would have had opened the bank up for Reaves to outbid Toronto.

Arvidsson, Marchessault, Perron, Guentzel, Lindholm, Toffoli, Teravainen, Tarasenko, Bertuzzi are get-able (to varying degrees) with an extra $4M to $8M in space.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Arvidsson, Marchessault, Perron, Guentzel, Lindholm, Toffoli, Teravainen, Tarasenko, Bertuzzi are get-able (to varying degrees) with an extra $4M to $8M in space.

You think you could get two of those guys for $8MM total AAV? And Necas on top as was discussed?

 

[BagHead]

You think you could get two of those guys for $8MM total AAV? And Necas on top as was discussed?

I think an argument could be made that one Guentzel and a replacement player is worth as many wins as Foligno and Zuccarello combined.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You think you could get two of those guys for $8MM total AAV? And Necas on top as was discussed?

No, this was not factoring in Necas. That's a separate trade issue.

We currently have ~$6.2M in cap space, less ~$2M for Chisholm and a buffer. So ~$4.2M + $8.125M = $12.325M.

Yes, I think we could be players for 1 or 2 of those names with $12.325M in cap space. Teravainen + Perron, for example, I think could very well come in under $12M.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I think an argument could be made that one Guentzel and a replacement player is worth as many wins as Foligno and Zuccarello combined.

In the short term, maybe, but Guentzel is looking for term and we already are paying Kap and Boldy significant dollars on the Wing, if you did that, then you are never going to have the space to pay for Top 4 D and 3 Centers. Do we want to be a wing focused team for another decade?

 

[BagHead]

In the short term, maybe, but Guentzel is looking for term and we already are paying Kap and Boldy significant dollars on the Wing, if you did that, then you are never going to have the space to pay for Top 4 D and 3 Centers. Do we want to be a wing focused team for another decade?

Agreed. There's a reason I haven't been beating the table about wanting a big name player at the moment.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

In the short term, maybe, but Guentzel is looking for term and we already are paying Kap and Boldy significant dollars on the Wing, if you did that, then you are never going to have the space to pay for Top 4 D and 3 Centers. Do we want to be a wing focused team for another decade?

Kaprizov is a superstar and is in his own area, wing/center doesn't matter.

So now we only have Boldy as the high priced wing, and that $7M is going to look better and better in the near future.

This is what I'm talking about weaponizing Eriksson Ek's contract. Boldy + Eriksson Ek is ~$6.125M each which is a steal for both, and will be for many years.

 

[Wabit]

Maybe, you would have to actually name them for this year though to convince me. And then you need multiple names, since even if the Wild want them, they would have to want to sign here over every other team. Zucc, a roughly PPG winger that does most of their damage on the PP pretty much equates to Perron and Tarasenko and neither are significantly cheaper than him.

Foligno wears an A (there is a tangible premium those players get in their contracts) and is now our only real physical/facepuncher guy in the forward group, and he does actually contribute to the scoresheet pretty well when he’s healthy. If we hadn’t signed him, we almost assuredly would have had opened the bank up for Reaves to outbid Toronto.

I like Foligno, he's just not worth a $4m x 4 contract.

I don't think FA players want to sign for the GM MN has. I think the GM knows this after almost everyone he trades for leaves. So he overpays in term/money to keep the bottom of the roster players he already has.

This just eats up the cap flexibility to make any substantial moves either via trade or a higher priced FA that would want to sign in MN. The good ol' boys club is stronger with GMBG than it was with Fletcher, and that is saying a lot.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Kaprizov is a superstar and is in his own area, wing/center doesn't matter.

So now we only have Boldy as the high priced wing, and that $7M is going to look better and better in the near future.

This is what I'm talking about weaponizing Eriksson Ek's contract. Boldy + Eriksson Ek is ~$6.125M each which is a steal for both, and will be for many years.

I also see it as a huge win, my argument is that the Wild have a lot of very strong value contracts currently but I also see the Foligno and Zucc contracts as bargains too, if they are healthy, I think they bring strong value to the club for their cap allocation. As the cap rises the next few years I think this will be even more apparent.

I would like us to use the space we are about to have to seek out true, high echelon caliber players, we have the bargain deals throughout the lineup where it is possible for us to take on a big dollar player, either through trade or UFA. I don’t see anyone in this class that moves the needle enough for me to give up that opportunity.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I like Foligno, he's just not worth a $4m x 4 contract.

I don't think FA players want to sign for the GM MN has. I think the GM knows this after almost everyone he trades for leaves. So he overpays in term/money to keep the bottom of the roster players he already has.

This just eats up the cap flexibility to make any substantial moves either via trade or a higher priced FA that would want to sign in MN. The good ol' boys club is stronger with GMBG than it was with Fletcher, and that is saying a lot.

What do you think Foligno goes for on the market today? Name a player that performs his role better than he does for the same price, and that could be acquired for free.

The second and third points are pure conjecture and I am very doubtful, if nobody wanted to be here, we wouldn’t have all these NMCs. And when guys negotiate for NMCs, they usually take less money or term to do so. The NMCs were cost saving aspects of the contracts.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

What do you think Foligno goes for on the market today? Name a player that performs his role better than he does for the same price, and that could be acquired for free.

The second and third points are pure conjecture and I am very doubtful, if nobody wanted to be here, we wouldn’t have all these NMCs. And when guys negotiate for NMCs, they usually take less money or term to do so. The NMCs were cost saving aspects of the contracts.

Probably around what he's getting. The problem is that he got that after a season where he did not show that he deserved it, and has now followed up with another one, at an advanced age.

There was zero reason for Foligno to get a raise in the summer of 2023.

 

[NHL1674]

A little palate cleanser for ya.

Name Change Reportedly on the Way for Xcel Energy Center

I will continue to call it The X. Can't imagine referring to it as anything else.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Probably around what he's getting. The problem is that he got that after a season where he did not show that he deserved it, and has now followed up with another one, at an advanced age.

There was zero reason for Foligno to get a raise in the summer of 2023.

If we had waited to sign him this off-season, I still think he gets this deal somewhere, maybe we save $.5MM or so in AAV, but he also would have had some leverage even after two injury filled seasons. He makes up the entirety of our hazard pay players for the time being, Middleton is just the D version of that if he extends IMO. Most of the guys in this league that handle the physical aspects are weak in other areas, both Foligno and Middleton are in the upper bounds of talent and physical mix for typical depth players. They aren’t Tkachuk’s but neither are they Deslaurier caliber.

A little palate cleanser for ya.

Name Change Reportedly on the Way for Xcel Energy Center

I will continue to call it The X. Can't imagine referring to it as anything else.

Yeah, it will always be the X to me. Maybe it’s Elon buying the naming rights lol.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If we had waited to sign him this off-season, I still think he gets this deal somewhere, maybe we save $.5MM or so in AAV, but he also would have had some leverage even after two injury filled seasons. He makes up the entirety of our hazard pay players for the time being, Middleton is just the D version of that if he extends IMO. Most of the guys in this league that handle the physical aspects are weak in other areas, both Foligno and Middleton are in the upper bounds of talent and physical mix for typical depth players. They aren’t Tkachuk’s but neither are they Deslaurier caliber.

Who is Florida's Foligno right now?

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Who is Florida's Foligno right now?

Matthew Tkachuk, a much better but more expensive version. They also have a D corps made up of physical players that we cannot match like Ekblad.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Matthew Tkachuk, a much better but more expensive version. They also have a D corps made up of physical players that we cannot match like Ekblad.

No, that's not correct. Tkachuk is much, much more Hartman-ish.

Middleton matches Ekblad just fine.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

No, that's not correct. Tkachuk is much, much more Hartman-ish.

Middleton matches Ekblad just fine.

I don’t watch a ton of Florida, maybe you are right, but IMO Hartman is not a physical presence pest, he relies on his stickwork to make his displeasure felt. I love Hartman, but he doesn’t drop the gloves and more often than not finds himself at the bottom of the scrum rather than on top. He does not intimidate in the way Tkachuk does, not that Foligno does either to the same magnitude, but he does at least threaten a bloody nose if opponents push the limits.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don’t watch a ton of Florida, maybe you are right, but IMO Hartman is not a physical presence pest, he relies on his stickwork to make his displeasure felt. I love Hartman, but he doesn’t drop the gloves and more often than not finds himself at the bottom of the scrum rather than on top. He does not intimidate in the way Tkachuk does, not that Foligno does either to the same magnitude, but he does at least threaten a bloody nose if opponents push the limits.

Tkachuk doesn't intimidate.

Florida's version of Foligno is Lomberg.

 

[AKL]

Tkachuk doesn't intimidate.

Florida's version of Foligno is Lomberg.

No that can't be right, he only made 800k last year, not 3-4M.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Tkachuk doesn't intimidate.

Florida's version of Foligno is Lomberg.

I would guess that NHL defenders find themselves far less comfortable dealing with Tkachuk at the net front and corners than they do with the average player. Does Lomberg wear a letter and have a strong voice in the locker room or is that Tkachuk? As dumb as the whole Machismo thing seems on the outside, it has its benefits in driving team cohesion. We were missing our C and both As for stretches this season and often came out flat giving up early goals, and then struggled to get back into games.